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Old 12-11-2012, 18:33   #21
Shark1007
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I'm not sure what CCI meant either, started off kinda snippy, but I think he's well meaning and I appreciate the medical advice..

Has anyone used the heavy tungsten guide rod from GlockStore?

Great idea on the extended barrel and maybe I could add the rod.

I disagree with the "duty" comment, I think if you carry a weapon, you have a duty to be proficient, that's why I'm asking about the recoil reduction devices. Didn't understand the workers comp reference, but don't think it was mean spirited.

Thanks very much to those with suggestions.
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Old 12-11-2012, 18:42   #22
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rdstrain

Excellent advice in the pm, thank you. I'll see if I can order some of the suggested items.
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Old 12-11-2012, 18:48   #23
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Originally Posted by Shark1007 View Post
I'm not sure what CCI meant either, started off kinda snippy, but I think he's well meaning and I appreciate the medical advice..

Has anyone used the heavy tungsten guide rod from GlockStore?

Great idea on the extended barrel and maybe I could add the rod.

Thanks very much to those with suggestions.
I tried the heavy competition tungsten RSA in my G27 and was unimpressed.
If money isn't an object?
KKM makes barrels with comps.
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Last edited by barth; 12-11-2012 at 18:49..
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Old 12-11-2012, 18:49   #24
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one more thing you can add is a taylor freelance seattle slug....a 3 oz brass slug (they make a black one too) that fits in the backstrap channel....this isn't a simple cosmetic plug, but fills most of the backstrap with weight, slightly reducing felt recoil....the only downside is that the last time i checked, they only make them for the compact and full size glocks...nothing for the subcompacts....

it also helps balance the gun out while shooting as we know glocks become increasingly top heavy the closer you get to emptying your mag....i install one in every new glock i buy....

http://www.taylorfreelance.com/seattle_slug.htm

Last edited by 24601; 12-11-2012 at 18:50..
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Old 12-11-2012, 19:24   #25
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Yeah, more good ideas. The tungsten rod might not help much by itself, but every little bit adds up and helps. The Slug is also a good idea. If they don't make one for your gun, you could always mix up some epoxy and fill up the hollow with small lead shot and epoxy. Also, the muzzle brake/compensator will also help. I have an old Harrts Recoil Reducer in my G20 and it seems to help a little bit. I don't think anyone is making them anymore, but you might be able to find someone that has one they want to sell. Or, you could make one or have one made. It's just a metal tube filled with lead balls and mercury, but, you could skip the mercury part and just use oil, it might not be quite as heavy, but, it would still work about the same and be safer than using mercury. You could also add a weight to your accessory rail if you have a rail.
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Old 12-11-2012, 19:31   #26
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Matter of fact, i forgot, i have some "Recoil Foam" you can stick on the backstrap of your gun and shape with rough sandpaper that will soften up a lot of the recoil. I use it on my shotgun pistol grip and it takes the slam of heavy loads right out. No more bruised palms. But it needs to be covered over with some sort of grip like AGrip, otherwise it will be kinda slippery and won't last. The only drawback might be that it will increase the distance to the trigger, which may not work for you.
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Old 12-11-2012, 19:54   #27
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How about a smaller caliber, hi velocity round like .22 magnum or 5.7?

Haven't heard a lot about their terminal performance, but they're lighter shooting (at least the 22 mag.)
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Old 12-11-2012, 20:49   #28
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How about a smaller caliber, hi velocity round like .22 magnum or 5.7?

Haven't heard a lot about their terminal performance, but they're lighter shooting (at least the 22 mag.)
5.7 is a darn good idea! I haven't shot one but i hear the recoil is super low. Good stopping potential, and high capacity, too.
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:02   #29
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Are you spending most of your range time shooting .357 or lightly loaded 38 special? I shoot hand loaded 38 special to get used to the gun and then finish off with the .357. You would probably get away with just the 38 specials for practice anyhow. For me, handling the gun not the recoil is the most important thing. Just a thought.
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:04   #30
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The tungsten recoil RSA's will help reduce muzzle flip. Don't really help much on recoil. That is what I have noticed from mine. If you're going to have neck surgery you might want to shoot a .22LR for awhile until you get completely healed. Good luck with the surgery.
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Old 12-11-2012, 21:30   #31
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It's a .357 Sig. I guess I will either not practice till surgery or use the 9mm. Still interested if anyone has had any success with these recoil reducers. I traded recently for a .357 Sig in an H&K Compact and just like the Glock better, but the recoil was pretty easy on the H&K.

Thanks for all the well wishes for the surgery, I've had 4 epidurals and tried everything. I'm just trying to decide to stay local or travel North to one of the big institutions.

Last edited by Shark1007; 12-11-2012 at 21:33..
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:37   #32
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I'm an avid shooter, ex LEO/Military and have herniated cervical disc from a car wreck. Recoil hurts these days. I just had low back fused and will be having neck done soon.

I'm almost 60 and feel strongly about protecting the family, I have CCW and normally carry a Mod 27 with .357 factory barrel or a PM45 Kahr

I've seen mention of Springco and also GlockStore has a tungsten guide rod they claim reduces recoil. I owe a duty to my family and the public to train and be proficient if I carry a weapon and the reduced recoil would be very appreciated, cost is not a big factor, reliability is. If I have to sell a gun to trick out another that won't hurt so bad, I'm game.

What says the group and thank you in advance.
The physics of this is easy enough. The first principle is that you can't escape momentum. The second principle is that it isn't momentum that hurts but the speed with which it arrives.

The momentum you recieve is equal and opposite to the speed of the bullet times its mass plus the speed of the other ejecta, gas and unburnt propellant, times their average velocity. Very roughly speaking, the loader the bang the greater this second component, and 357s are very loud!

So the first step is to get a compensated barrel as pictured by barth in #9 as distinct from a muzzle brake as pictured in his #23. That is, you want to divert that high velocity gas to a direction at right angles before the bullet leaves the muzzle and there is a good reason to divert it upwards rather than sideways, but see later. With the 357SIG this might save you some 5% of the recoil and it will stop most of the barrel flip. Incidentally, I suspect that the brake in #23 is far from ideal as the ports are too close to the end of the "barrel" so that there might not be enough time for the pressure to have fallen enough before the bullet leaves the barrel.

Most of what people talk about as felt recoil is how much discomfort is felt in the hand. This is essentially caused by the speed of the grip slapping back into the hand. Roughly speaking, if you double the weight of the pistol it would halve the speed and would feel much easier. This is not your problem. What is happening is that the hand or hands are accelerated backwards by the pistol. They accelerate the arms backwards and they accelerate the shoulders backwards. They accelerate the spine backwards and leave the head behind. It is that last bit that hurts you with a motion similar to the rebound from whiplash in a car.

In this proces of stage by stage accelerations the mass accelerated becomes larger and larger and the acceleration therefore becomes smaller and smaller. Because of that, the felt recoil at the hands makes very little difference to the effect on your neck, and so heavier pistols or tungsten guide rods will be a waste of money.

This sounds as though there is no more that can be done, but there is hope for more in two directions. First you can fire lighter weight bullets. They will typically go faster but not so much that they will not reduce their momentum. Their bang will be louder and in normal circumstances the gas component of total momentum will be greater but you have dealt with that with the compensator. This should give you a little more reduction. You can continue this process by fitting a 9mm conversion barrel with the same compensator and by shooting 115gn or lighter bullets. I share your opinion of the 367SIG but practice with such a 9mm will still be effective relative to the carry of 357SIG.

The next thing is more difficult because it means changing your style. Remember, it is the speed of delivery of the momentum that hurts. You need to slow the delivery of the momentum to your spine and to do this you need to learn to shoot with bent arms and relatively relaxed muscles. In this way you can change the delivery to the spine from a jolt to a slower push. Incidentally, the fact that I purposfully avoided mentioning above is that the compensator's reduction of muzzle flip will reduce your need and inclination to muscle the gun. This lets you allow the recoil to push your hands back quickly and absorb the momentum over a greater distance with less force. Clearly, this is easier said than done.

There is one other significant training thing that you can do and that is learn to point shoot one handed from waist level with your elbow about level with your belt buckle but to the side. This is a very soft way of receiving recoil and although it might seem strange because the force is still going through the shoulder, it is doing so in a different way. Rather than being pushed back into the spine it is being twisted downwards so that the recoil is delivered to the abdomen leaving the upper spine and head behind. That is, there is no longer the abrupt whiplash effect between head and shoulders. This alone could be enough to allow you to fire your 357 SIG effectively in most defensive situations without any modification.

I hope this helps.

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Old 12-12-2012, 10:06   #33
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Longer barrels and heavier guide rods do not reduce recoil...what they reduce is muzzle rise/flip. If your pain stems from the twisting of the wrist caused by muzzle rise/flip, then they will help. But with the issue being your back, I do not see how they could help you in any way to reduce your pain.
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:20   #34
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Best explanation I've ever seen, thank you. I've spoken with Mas Ayoob and he is going to coach me on grip/stance etc. to try to help.

Very kind and thorough response.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:19   #35
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http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

You might find this useful. Don't forget to include the weight of the powder charge, it doesn't vanish when burned, it is part of the equation.

Another thing to consider is how much you are fighting the recoil. I remember seeing a 95 pound 13 year old girl shooting a S&W model 29 .44 magnum. While she was fit and using proper form she rode the recoil out and the gun ended up well above the level of her head. A sturdy 230 pound man is going to absorb a lot of the energy that she let be turned into movement, he is going to have much less muzzle rise so the energy that it took to move the gun a foot or so he is going to absorb into the muscles of his hands, arms and back. As I recall, in the video in question the little girl turned around grinning after she emptied the gun and the big guy was rubbing his hand.

I guess I am asking, have you tried limp wristing, it may help.

Blew a disk in my upper back in `82, I hope you can get yourself fixed up or it gets better as you adjust.

Good luck, sounds like you are getting help from the best.
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Old 12-14-2012, 16:34   #36
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Best explanation I've ever seen, thank you. I've spoken with Mas Ayoob and he is going to coach me on grip/stance etc. to try to help.

Very kind and thorough response.
Shark,
Thank you for that. It is nice to know that these things are appreciated. I hope it all works out for you.

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Old 12-14-2012, 21:03   #37
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SteveHawaii

It's a .357 Sig. I guess I will either not practice till surgery or use the 9mm. Still interested if anyone has had any success with these recoil reducers. I traded recently for a .357 Sig in an H&K Compact and just like the Glock better, but the recoil was pretty easy on the H&K.

Thanks for all the well wishes for the surgery, I've had 4 epidurals and tried everything. I'm just trying to decide to stay local or travel North to one of the big institutions.
Sorry. I saw Mod 27 .357 and immediately thought Smith and Wesson. I have a Sig P220 .45 and a .22 conversion for it. Same frame, different uppers. That works real well for me. Most of my range time with it is on the .22. I shoot the .45 until I start developing a flinch, then convert back to the .22. Like others have recommended here, I think that's the way to go.

Failing that, have you looked at air-soft? I have a Glock 27 replica in blowback (no longer available, but other make/models are) that I shoot the daylights out of. Keeps me current without any range time, right inside my house.

Hope you recover well.

Steve
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Old 01-07-2013, 22:54   #38
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Gentlemen

Thank you all. I happen to have an amazing (younger) wife that carries, shoots and has seen my difficulties. She bought me a Crimson Trace Grip, a Lone Wolf ported barrel and a Tungsten Guide rod.

I'm going to carefully try the techniques suggested and report back.

Thank you again. This resource is amazing. Back in my day, you'd have to "ask around" and hope for the best. Now you can get the brightest and the most helpful in a short time on the internet. One member, a physician, even pm'ed me with helpful suggestions.

I am very appreciative and will readily contribute on subjects I know.
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Old 01-07-2013, 23:28   #39
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Let us know how it works for you. I have had 2 neck fusions and have the same problems shooting my G22.
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