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Old 12-12-2012, 08:40   #26
redbaron007
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Originally Posted by ilgunguygt View Post
While everyone continues to pile on IL lets take a look at the facts. The last few concealed carry pushes have been led by democrats, its a chicago vs the rest of the state thing, not dem vs republican. We were only a few votes short of a supermajority in passing our last bill, which was a pretty good bill. The ruling actually sets it up so that at 180 days from the ruling if there is no law then IL will become free territory for anyone with a FOID card with no regulations or restrictions.

That being said it comes to this, chicago gives in to what the rest of us want, or they fight and introduce thier own bill. Downstate doesnt vote for thiers, they dont vote for downstate. In 180 days we all conceal carry with no laws at all against it. No matter what the gun owner wins in this specific case.

Its crazy that its happening this way, but hey, this is Illinois and anything can happen here.
How does the FOID card come into play?



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Old 12-12-2012, 09:02   #27
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:06   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron007 View Post
How does the FOID card come into play?



red
The FOID act states that you must have a FOID card to legally posess a firearm. If the chicago machine pushes us off the "concealed carry cliff" of 180 days, simply having a FOID card would allow you to posess it and there would be no laws restricting concealed or open carry.

Chicago is screwed, but they wont admit it. SCOTUS is thier best option, but again, the opinion of the 7th is based on SCOTUS rulings.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:14   #29
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Originally Posted by ilgunguygt View Post
The FOID act states that you must have a FOID card to legally posess a firearm. If the chicago machine pushes us off the "concealed carry cliff" of 180 days, simply having a FOID card would allow you to posess it and there would be no laws restricting concealed or open carry.
Yeah, I will have to let somebody else fight that court battle. Restrictions or not, cliff or not, they will arrest you all the same.
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Old 12-12-2012, 13:05   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilgunguygt View Post
The FOID act states that you must have a FOID card to legally posess a firearm. If the chicago machine pushes us off the "concealed carry cliff" of 180 days, simply having a FOID card would allow you to posess it and there would be no laws restricting concealed or open carry.

Chicago is screwed, but they wont admit it. SCOTUS is thier best option, but again, the opinion of the 7th is based on SCOTUS rulings.
Gotcha....wasn't sure how it would play into it. Just off the top of my head thinking; wouldn't that card be null/void after 180 days, since the court has stated they do have the right to have firearms?



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Old 12-12-2012, 14:25   #31
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Originally Posted by redbaron007 View Post
Gotcha....wasn't sure how it would play into it. Just off the top of my head thinking; wouldn't that card be null/void after 180 days, since the court has stated they do have the right to have firearms?



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The ruling wasnt' about the FOID card, it was about a complete prohibition on carrying firearms for self defense. The FOID card will probably be seen as a "Reasonable" restriction on firearms ownership. Just like NY's concealed carry law was upheld as being a reasonable restriction.
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Old 12-12-2012, 14:44   #32
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The ruling wasnt' about the FOID card, it was about a complete prohibition on carrying firearms for self defense. The FOID card will probably be seen as a "Reasonable" restriction on firearms ownership. Just like NY's concealed carry law was upheld as being a reasonable restriction.
I agree, it wasn't about the FOID card. However, with the card, it prevents conceal carry; provided there is no CC laws after 180 days I'm thinking how this card now prevents CC. I see how one can construe this a 'reasonable. but since there are no CC laws, meaning the card isn't part of the CC laws (cause there are none), does it become void when CC?

Situation: I travel to IL after the 180 days with no CC laws. I don't have a FOID card, can I CC? I know this is hypothetical....but if the Chicago reps get into a pissing match with the rest of the state...it may occur.

Just curious.



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Old 12-12-2012, 15:53   #33
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Barbara Flynn Currie (D-Chicago) quote in the Tribune:

“If we need to change the law, let us at least craft a law that is very severely constrained and narrowly tailored so that we don’t invite guns out of control on each of our city’s streets,” Currie said. “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.”

In these two sentences, the word 'control' appears three times with 'constrained' thrown in for measure.

Could "control" be what oppressive gun laws are about?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7034171.story
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:57   #34
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This court ruling is HUGE. Just last month, driving up to see my mom in Wisconsin, and coming from Indiana, I had to stop my car. Disarm. Remove the magazine from my carry weapon, and stow it all in a closed container in the back of my vehicle. So much fun to do at a rest area or gas station. I mean, it really felt crazy.

But I'll do it until Illinois finally changes its laws.

Courts have given IL 180 days to put together a decent law. I think they'll do it sooner. They've been fighting a losing battle. Yes! My KY CCDW license will be valid soon enough in Illinois....Hip Hip Hooray!!!
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:22   #35
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Originally Posted by ilgunguygt View Post
While everyone continues to pile on IL lets take a look at the facts. The last few concealed carry pushes have been led by democrats, its a chicago vs the rest of the state thing, not dem vs republican. We were only a few votes short of a supermajority in passing our last bill, which was a pretty good bill. The ruling actually sets it up so that at 180 days from the ruling if there is no law then IL will become free territory for anyone with a FOID card with no regulations or restrictions.

That being said it comes to this, chicago gives in to what the rest of us want, or they fight and introduce thier own bill. Downstate doesnt vote for thiers, they dont vote for downstate. In 180 days we all conceal carry with no laws at all against it. No matter what the gun owner wins in this specific case.

Its crazy that its happening this way, but hey, this is Illinois and anything can happen here.

You know how it goes, when people have a political axe to grind, they will find a way. Facts be damned.

This Illinois ban on conceal carry has always been as flimsy as a proper case against it; as we have seen here. Has this conversation during my Utah CCW class a few months ago.

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Old 12-12-2012, 19:56   #36
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Originally Posted by redbaron007 View Post
I agree, it wasn't about the FOID card. However, with the card, it prevents conceal carry; provided there is no CC laws after 180 days I'm thinking how this card now prevents CC. I see how one can construe this a 'reasonable. but since there are no CC laws, meaning the card isn't part of the CC laws (cause there are none), does it become void when CC?

Situation: I travel to IL after the 180 days with no CC laws. I don't have a FOID card, can I CC? I know this is hypothetical....but if the Chicago reps get into a pissing match with the rest of the state...it may occur.

Just curious.



red

The FOID card doesn't prevent concealed carry if the concealed carry prohibition is struck down and no law is written to allow concealed carry.

Currently a FOID card is required for any Illinois resident to purchase, own or possess a firearm.

So if the concealed carry law is struck down the only gun law left is the FOID card act and a FOID card is required for an Illinois resident to possess a firearm. Therefore a FOID card will become the only requirement to carry.
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:08   #37
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Correct me if I'm wrong but they threw out the current law and allowed them 180 days to get a new one. If no new law is passed then there is no gun law at all. That is a very strong bargaining position for the pro gun guys.
My thoughts exactly. What say you Illini?
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:53   #38
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My thoughts exactly. What say you Illini?
I say let those cook county politicians write the most anti gun bill - (and it will fail just like Pat Quinn's assault weapons ban this year) no downstate politician supports it and the house gets deadlocked past the 180 days and no restrictions on CCW gets passed by default

seriously like John Biltz said, for years Chicago politicians have screwed over the state by trying to pass dumb gun laws and voting against CCW now Chicago and cook county can't get a majority of the house which is pro-gun to agree to their bill we get CCW with no restriction and the pro-gun representatives know it
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Old 12-12-2012, 23:06   #39
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Correct me if I'm wrong but they threw out the current law and allowed them 180 days to get a new one. If no new law is passed then there is no gun law at all. That is a very strong bargaining position for the pro gun guys.
That's exactly what I've heard as well.

Really hoping that's exactly what happens. My industry is having the national trade show in Chicago in 2013 (that falls solidly within the 'have to go' category), and it would be fantastic to have reciprocity for my CCW in that hellhole. If the pro-gun types have any sense in IL, they'll stonewall and gridlock those bills for the 180 days if possible.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:56   #40
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Originally Posted by vafish View Post
The FOID card doesn't prevent concealed carry if the concealed carry prohibition is struck down and no law is written to allow concealed carry.

Currently a FOID card is required for any Illinois resident to purchase, own or possess a firearm.

So if the concealed carry law is struck down the only gun law left is the FOID card act and a FOID card is required for an Illinois resident to possess a firearm. Therefore a FOID card will become the only requirement to carry.
So, as a visitor to IL, if no CCW law has been written, CCing would not be illegal; since I'm not a resident, I don't require a FOID card. ??

Another question, if I move to IL with firearms, a person has to obtain a FOID card to retain ownership of the weapons they already own? (I think I know the answer; once they become a resident of IL, they have to have the FOID card to retain ownership in the state. Correct?)

I'm very curious...not being argumentative. Hopefully, if they write a CCW bill, they can remove that FOID card bureaucratic BS!



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Old 12-13-2012, 09:01   #41
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So, as a visitor to IL, if no CCW law has been written, CCing would not be illegal; since I'm not a resident, I don't require a FOID card. ?



red
I'm not a lawyer, but the way I understand it yes.

As for moving to il, I'm not sure but from what I understand you need a foid to possess a firearm.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:08   #42
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Appreciate the response vafish.

My motive for asking is I may be traveling to IL next year on business (8-12 times), with a small outside chance of moving there (hope it remains small).



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Old 12-13-2012, 12:02   #43
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My thoughts exactly. What say you Illini?
I'll have to go back a re-read teh article. But I thought they had 120 days to build a mechanism to comply with the ruling.

Here is the quote from the article:

"The Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment compelled the appeals court to rule the ban unconstitutional, the judges said. But the court gave 180 days to "allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public."

To me this means limitations like, where can weapons be disallowed, like schools, daycare centers, shopping malls, etc. I don't think this means that Illinois is being given time to write lays that disallow conceal carry. I believe that Illinois now has to comply with the court and allow CCW like the other 49 states.

Yes/No?

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Old 12-13-2012, 12:14   #44
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I'm not a lawyer, but the way I understand it yes.

As for moving to il, I'm not sure but from what I understand you need a foid to possess a firearm.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
This is the other big question. Which states CCW will Illinois honor. I am an Illinois resident and I hold a Utah non-resident CCW which is honored by indiana and Wisconsin, both boarder states to Illinois.

As an Illinois resident, I buy ammo and reloading supplies from Indiana stores. I must show my FOID card in order to do so. Indiana is obligated to check my FOID to so much as touch a weapon in an Indiana gun store. The same applies to Wisconsin.

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Old 12-13-2012, 12:21   #45
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This is the other big question. Which states CCW will Illinois honor. I am an Illinois resident and I hold a Utah non-resident CCW which is honored by indiana and Wisconsin, both boarder states to Illinois.

As an Illinois resident, I buy ammo and reloading supplies from Indiana stores. I must show my FOID card in order to do so. Indiana is obligated to check my FOID to so much as touch a weapon in an Indiana gun store. The same applies to Wisconsin.
My guess would be they will honor no other states as you must have a FOID card to own a firearm in Illinoguns. I would guess that for Illinois the answer will always be as restrictive as possible.
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Old 12-13-2012, 13:14   #46
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Great news - I heard this on the radio this morning!
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Old 12-13-2012, 14:06   #47
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My guess would be they will honor no other states as you must have a FOID card to own a firearm in Illinoguns. I would guess that for Illinois the answer will always be as restrictive as possible.
That kind of thing would be very bad. If Illinois would choose not to honor other states CCW, then those states may choose not honor the Illinois CCW. Are there similar catfights between s few states regarding resident and non-resident CCW's? I recall conversation on this subject during my Utah non-resident CCW class.

Bottom line is, I hope that Illinois lawmakers behave like adults and build something that works and is not the stupidest CCW permit structure in the nation. But, maybe I am asking for to much.
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Old 12-13-2012, 15:04   #48
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So, as a visitor to IL, if no CCW law has been written, CCing would not be illegal; since I'm not a resident, I don't require a FOID card. ??
Only IL residents are required to have FOID cards. Non-residents visiting in and traveling thru IL with firearms do not need a FOID card and cannot get a FOID card.

Quote:
Another question, if I move to IL with firearms, a person has to obtain a FOID card to retain ownership of the weapons they already own? (I think I know the answer; once they become a resident of IL, they have to have the FOID card to retain ownership in the state. Correct?)
If you move to IL then you are required to get a FOID card. Doesn't matter if you owned the firearms before. The FOID card does not register firearms. IL does not register firearms. It's like a driver's license. If you drive a car then you need a DL, if you possess a firearm then you need a FOID.
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Old 12-13-2012, 15:15   #49
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The smart and likely thing to do is bring back the Phelps bill that failed by six votes. Prior to last minute deal-making in Chicago, it's rumored that the votes were there. And the bill wasn't terrible.


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Old 12-13-2012, 15:20   #50
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Not so coincidentally, I was talking with a couple of illinois judges today about the ruling. They seemed clear about the 180 day thing in that "if it's unconstitutional in six months then it's unconstitutional TODAY."

One added that he would likely grant a motion to quash arrest and dismiss a complaint on someone caught otherwise lawfully concealing.....not that I'd encourage anyone to test the waters.

Interesting. The Chicago machine has a hornet's nest to deal with. I don't think the attorney general has even offered a response to this yet.

There are going to be a fair amount of police officers in Illinois who might be perplexed by this issue.


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