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Old 12-13-2012, 19:00   #51
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Originally Posted by volsbear View Post
Interesting. The Chicago machine has a hornet's nest to deal with. I don't think the attorney general has even offered a response to this yet.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/g...4d8f09b9c.html

the article said she is reviewing the past Supreme Court decision.

my hope is she won't appeal

for the Supreme Court to reverse the decision they have to rule the right of Self Defence does not extend to outside the home and with 49 out of 50 states with CCW I don't see the supreme court overturning the decision

the article also said that she is being groomed to be the next governor or senator of IL. if she appeals against CCW she loses the support of downstate pro-gun democrats and its not a guarantee she with will win the appeal which mean she loses the case and possibly the next election.

if she doesn't appeal yes she might lose the Chicago votes but Chicago / cook county votes for her anyways so why satisfy the fringe groups when you can win the base(undecided) voters
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Old 12-13-2012, 19:17   #52
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Bottom line is, I hope that Illinois lawmakers behave like adults and build something that works and is not the stupidest CCW permit structure in the nation. But, maybe I am asking for to much.
Honestly? I think you're asking too much.
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Old 12-13-2012, 20:00   #53
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Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/g...4d8f09b9c.html

the article said she is reviewing the past Supreme Court decision.

my hope is she won't appeal

for the Supreme Court to reverse the decision they have to rule the right of Self Defence does not extend to outside the home and with 49 out of 50 states with CCW I don't see the supreme court overturning the decision

the article also said that she is being groomed to be the next governor or senator of IL. if she appeals against CCW she loses the support of downstate pro-gun democrats and its not a guarantee she with will win the appeal which mean she loses the case and possibly the next election.

if she doesn't appeal yes she might lose the Chicago votes but Chicago / cook county votes for her anyways so why satisfy the fringe groups when you can win the base(undecided) voters
That's true. 2010 showed us that you can be incredibly popular outside of Cook County and still lose the governor's mansion. I think Bill Brady took almost 100 of the 102 counties and lost.


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Old 12-13-2012, 20:01   #54
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the article also said that she is being groomed to be the next governor or senator of IL.
Groomed? The writer at the paper really doesn't understand IL politics if he thinks she's being groomed. She's been AG for a number of years. Her daddy is the Speaker of the House and head of the Democratic Party in IL and has been for many years. He has the nickname Iron Mike or the Sphynx and he earned those names. He's very heavy hitter. If daughter Lisa wants to be gov daddy will make sure it happens. There was talk of her running for gov 2 yrs ago but she would have had to run against a sitting Democratic gov. The Democrats were afraid that such a move would split the party. Everyone felt the race was going to be close anyway as the sitting Democratic gov wasn't all that popular. If Lisa Madigan would have challenged the sitting gov then the Dems were afraid that would have split enough the Republicans would win.
Lisa and her daddy are both anti-gun.
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Old 12-13-2012, 20:29   #55
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Groomed? The writer at the paper really doesn't understand IL politics if he thinks she's being groomed. She's been AG for a number of years. Her daddy is the Speaker of the House and head of the Democratic Party in IL and has been for many years. He has the nickname Iron Mike or the Sphynx and he earned those names. He's very heavy hitter. If daughter Lisa wants to be gov daddy will make sure it happens. There was talk of her running for gov 2 yrs ago but she would have had to run against a sitting Democratic gov. The Democrats were afraid that such a move would split the party. Everyone felt the race was going to be close anyway as the sitting Democratic gov wasn't all that popular. If Lisa Madigan would have challenged the sitting gov then the Dems were afraid that would have split enough the Republicans would win.
Lisa and her daddy are both anti-gun.
Oh I don't know if he's principled enough to be anti-gun. He's just a pandering ass. There are already rumors that Madigan and Cullerton "allowed" the 7th's decision so they can get a restrictive gun bill passed and generate $100 million in revenue.


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Old 12-13-2012, 20:31   #56
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Oh I don't know if he's principled enough to be anti-gun. He's just a pandering ass. There are already rumors that Madigan and Cullerton "allowed" the 7th's decision so they can get a restrictive gun bill passed and generate $100 million in revenue.
With those 2 nothing is beyond the realm of possibilities.
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Old 12-13-2012, 20:40   #57
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With those 2 nothing is beyond the realm of possibilities.
You are right about that, sir.

We'll see what happens. Phelps is already claiming a bill could be passed now.

I was talking to two judges today who were discussing the absurdity of the six month stay on the 7th's decision. Interesting conversation.


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Old 12-13-2012, 21:51   #58
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News like this gives me hope for our nation.
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Old 12-13-2012, 22:22   #59
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I was talking to two judges today who were discussing the absurdity of the six month stay on the 7th's decision. Interesting conversation.


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The reaction of those two judges is interesting. Most decisions introducing abrupt changes include some type of "with all deliberate speed" language. That 180 day provision strikes me as such a provision.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:51   #60
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As an Illinois resident, I buy ammo and reloading supplies from Indiana stores. I must show my FOID card in order to do so. The same applies to Wisconsin.
Under what IN, WI or federal law are they doing this? To the best of my knowledge the purchaser's place of residence is irrelevant for an ammunition or component purchase, without some specific state or federal statute to the contrary. Come to think of it I've never been asked for any ID when purchasing ammunition in Indiana.

isp, I seem to recall a discussion a few years back that ended with the State Police coming out with a statement that a CCW counted the same as an FOID for those from out of state. I believe the discussion had to do with purchasing ammo. Do you recall this or am I misremembering?
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:00   #61
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Under what IN, WI or federal law are they doing this? To the best of my knowledge the purchaser's place of residence is irrelevant for an ammunition or component purchase, without some specific state or federal statute to the contrary. Come to think of it I've never been asked for any ID when purchasing ammunition in Indiana.

isp, I seem to recall a discussion a few years back that ended with the State Police coming out with a statement that a CCW counted the same as an FOID for those from out of state. I believe the discussion had to do with purchasing ammo. Do you recall this or am I misremembering?
I've bought ammo several times in Wisconsin and not shown ID. I'm an Illinois resident.

Out of state CCW counting as FOID?? For what?


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Old 12-14-2012, 05:44   #62
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Under what IN, WI or federal law are they doing this? To the best of my knowledge the purchaser's place of residence is irrelevant for an ammunition or component purchase, without some specific state or federal statute to the contrary. Come to think of it I've never been asked for any ID when purchasing ammunition in Indiana.
IL law says if a business outside of IL sells an IL resident ammo then the business is suppose to check your FOID. It's one of those do-gooder laws that is pretty much unenforceable. IL cannot force a business not in IL to abide by IL law. The only way it can be enforced is if a company ships ammo to IL. If they weren't checking for FOID then IL could stop ammo shipments from that business into IL. It's pretty tough to enforce either way. IL can't get out of state companies to collect IL sales tax even tho there's an IL law on the books saying they will collect and send the tax collected to IL.


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isp, I seem to recall a discussion a few years back that ended with the State Police coming out with a statement that a CCW counted the same as an FOID for those from out of state. I believe the discussion had to do with purchasing ammo. Do you recall this or am I misremembering?
Not CCW actually. All IL law says if you can legally own a firearm in your resident state then you can transport in IL. You'd have to be jammed up on something illegal here before anyone would even think or try to determine if you're legal in your home state. It would be an element to a charge that you couldnt legally possess here because you couldn't legally possess there. All your CCW would do is show you can legally possess in your home state therefore it is akin to a FOID in this state to show you can legally possess. But not having a CCW doesn't mean you can't legally possess in your state. For example, all the guys who shoot trap and come to IL fo the national matches at the World Shooting complex in Sparta IL. None of those guys would have a CCW to carry their trap guns concealed.


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Under what IN, WI or federal law are they doing this? To the best of my knowledge the purchaser's place of residence is irrelevant for an ammunition or component purchase, without some specific state or federal statute to the contrary. Come to think of it I've never been asked for any ID when purchasing ammunition in Indiana.

isp, I seem to recall a discussion a few years back that ended with the State Police coming out with a statement that a CCW counted the same as an FOID for those from out of state. I believe the discussion had to do with purchasing ammo. Do you recall this or am I misremembering?
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:54   #63
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News like this gives me hope for our nation.
True, so true.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:23   #64
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Not so coincidentally, I was talking with a couple of illinois judges today about the ruling. They seemed clear about the 180 day thing in that "if it's unconstitutional in six months then it's unconstitutional TODAY."

One added that he would likely grant a motion to quash arrest and dismiss a complaint on someone caught otherwise lawfully concealing.....not that I'd encourage anyone to test the waters.

Interesting. The Chicago machine has a hornet's nest to deal with. I don't think the attorney general has even offered a response to this yet.

There are going to be a fair amount of police officers in Illinois who might be perplexed by this issue.


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Though my reading of the opinion, they are right....it is unconstitutional TODAY, however, provided the state legislators 180 to construct a CCW bill.

I would agree just about any judge, outside of Chicago, would probably quash such a charge in lieu of this decision.

If I were the downstate reps, I'd push to abolish that FOID card too! JMHO



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Old 12-14-2012, 08:33   #65
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Under what IN, WI or federal law are they doing this? To the best of my knowledge the purchaser's place of residence is irrelevant for an ammunition or component purchase, without some specific state or federal statute to the contrary. Come to think of it I've never been asked for any ID when purchasing ammunition in Indiana.

isp, I seem to recall a discussion a few years back that ended with the State Police coming out with a statement that a CCW counted the same as an FOID for those from out of state. I believe the discussion had to do with purchasing ammo. Do you recall this or am I misremembering?
What federal law? I have no idea. What I know is that if I'm in Indiana or Wisconsin, purchasing ammo or power, and if the seller asked my state if residence, I am asked to show my Illinois FOID card. There have been times where my residence has not come up. On those occasions, the purchase was made without the need to show my Illinois FOID.

Regarding your question about a CCW card serving as a FOID, I am not aware of this. I've only had my Utah CCW for a few months.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:51   #66
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I've bought ammo several times in Wisconsin and not shown ID. I'm an Illinois resident.

Out of state CCW counting as FOID?? For what?


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Yes, I have found this to be an off and on proposition. Sometimes I need it, and other times, I don't. However, when I bought hand guns online (Guns America), I had to provide a copy of my FOID to the online seller. And of course, I had to provide the FOID to the FFL transfer agent here in Illinois.

So, I always count on having to show the FOID. If I don't have to show it, I am happy.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:57   #67
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I've never been asked to show ID to buy ammo, but I imagine if you looked under the age requirements, they might ask. Now I have been asked that stupid "Is this ammo for a handgun" question at Wal Mart (it was 40 ammo if I recall)... this piqued my interest and I said, "Why does it matter".. the poor guy had clearly gotten beat up on this question a lot and said "Sir, it's just a question I have to ask".. so I said "No, it's for a sniper rifle"
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:36   #68
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
Yes, I have found this to be an off and on proposition. Sometimes I need it, and other times, I don't. However, when I bought hand guns online (Guns America), I had to provide a copy of my FOID to the online seller. And of course, I had to provide the FOID to the FFL transfer agent here in Illinois.

So, I always count on having to show the FOID. If I don't have to show it, I am happy.
Interesting , I bought guns from gunbroker, cz custom , and a couple of mil surp dealers and never had to show FOID until I filled out the FFL paperwork
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Old 12-14-2012, 13:21   #69
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Though my reading of the opinion, they are right....it is unconstitutional TODAY, however, provided the state legislators 180 to construct a CCW bill.

I would agree just about any judge, outside of Chicago, would probably quash such a charge in lieu of this decision.

If I were the downstate reps, I'd push to abolish that FOID card too! JMHO



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I wouldn't have a problem with the FOID law if it worked. But it doesn't. They'll likely keep FOID and you'd have three classes of gun owners -

Those permitted to carry,
Those permitted only to purchase and own,
And those who possess and/or unlawfully.


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Old 12-14-2012, 13:41   #70
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I wouldn't have a problem with the FOID law if it worked. But it doesn't. They'll likely keep FOID and you'd have three classes of gun owners -

Those permitted to carry,
Those permitted only to purchase and own,
And those who possess and/or unlawfully.


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Yep, that's about it.
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