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Old 12-19-2012, 15:25   #41
scccdoc
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Never said that, of course there are dysfunctional atheists. They are just less likely to use their worldview as a crutch for their dysfunction.
Have any documentation on "less likely"? Even though your inference was that Christians "in general" were dysfunctional. Am I wrong? Are we?


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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I said that I've known to many that don't take responsibility.


Have you not known any atheists who did not take responsibility? Not one? Again, your inference is that only Christians (or the majority) do not take responsibility. I'm a Christian, do you think I'm irresponsible or lack responsibility?


I think the previous statements by you are generalizations based on biased opinion, that is not logical, it is guessing.



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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I'm sorry that you take offense, but the word is used in the correct context. It's all just an elaborate fairytale, myth, daydream, self-delusion, whatever you want to call it.


"Sorry", yet still demeaning. Your opinion is simply an opinion. You cannot prove there is no God.



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It describes events and occurances that are known to not be possible in this world. It is no different than any other myth system of present or past history. Believing in it strongly does not change that.
Sooooooooooooooo.......... you believe we have discovered everything there is to discover in this area? Do you often limit possibilities to what is known? BTW, the earth is not flat.............get my drift?
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Old 12-19-2012, 15:34   #42
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Originally Posted by scccdoc View Post
Your opinion is simply an opinion. You cannot prove there is no God.
So what? How is that relevant to anything? You can't prove I'm not God. does that mean I am?
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Old 12-19-2012, 15:37   #43
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I was raised in an independent fundamentalist Baptist Church. I remember in grade school being taught about Noah and the ark, and that God would soon do the same thing to the world of the unsaved when Jesus returned, and then singing "I wish we'd all been ready".

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

If you are taught what the Bible teaches, then you separate yourself from the world.

Religion separates. Always has, and always will.

The chosen people are not going to burn with the rest of world at God's vengeance. Save yourself. That is how it reads and that is how it is taught.

.
You need to go back to what Ephesians said. Reject the "principalities" and evil ways of those who follow the world and you are given eternal hope. I hope you will encounter someone who can explain it better than me so that you will be ready. This is what the Bible says.
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Old 12-19-2012, 15:39   #44
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So what? How is that relevant to anything? You can't prove I'm not God. does that mean I am?
That's the point, neither can prove, therefore his opinion is no more valid than mine.So why be offensive about it?
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Old 12-19-2012, 15:42   #45
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I was raised in an independent fundamentalist Baptist Church. I remember in grade school being taught about Noah and the ark, and that God would soon do the same thing to the world of the unsaved when Jesus returned, and then singing "I wish we'd all been ready".

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

If you are taught what the Bible teaches, then you separate yourself from the world.

Religion separates. Always has, and always will.

The chosen people are not going to burn with the rest of world at God's vengeance. Save yourself. That is how it reads and that is how it is taught.

.
So dude, once again, how am I your enemy? I'm commanded to love you as I love myself. I'm not the judge................
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Old 12-19-2012, 16:07   #46
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Originally Posted by scccdoc View Post
[blah, blah, blah...]
You keep twisting my qualified statements into absolutes so you can tear down the strawman easier. Only theists deal in absolutes.

As for proof that there is no god, we've been over this before. The burden of proof lies with the person making the extraordinary (in this case supernatural) claim. I don't have to support the statement that there is no Santa Clause with proof in order for it to be valid and I don't have to support the statement there is no god for the same reason (even though I have here multiple times). The existence of supernatural deities runs contrary to everything that has ever been observed in this universe. The inductive case against god is overwhelming. I don't have to treat an infinitesimally small chance as a real and viable possibility.
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Old 12-19-2012, 16:36   #47
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That's the point, neither can prove, therefore his opinion is no more valid than mine.So why be offensive about it?
You miss the point. That which cannot be proven false is not necessarily true. Am I God simply because you cannot prove I'm not? Is there life on Mars because I can't prove there isn't? Was God an ancient alien from outer space because no one can prove he wasn't? This type of argument is illogical.

Until I can prove my point, my point is as false as yours, not as true. Neither point is true until one of us can show a probability that it is more likely to be true than false. Until such time, both points are equally false.

I'm not being offensive. We've been over this in this forum more times than I can remember. I'm just tired of seeing the same logically flawed argument ad infinitum as though it has some merit.
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Old 12-19-2012, 19:12   #48
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So dude, once again, how am I your enemy? I'm commanded to love you as I love myself. I'm not the judge................

I don't believe the Christian is the enemy any more then I believe the Muslim is the enemy.

The enemy is doctrine that causes harm. There is doctrine in Christainity that is harmful to the psyche of the believer.
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Old 12-19-2012, 20:27   #49
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Originally Posted by 9jeeps View Post
So why do so many unbelievers call out to our God when there is a big tragedy in theirs and others lives? Or fear reigns in their minds?

EXAMPLES:
Oh my God!!,
Jesus Christ!
God Almighty!
God damn you!
Send me some prayers I, my family, my friend, Buddy, our country, my dog; cat; kid, loved one, adnauseum, need prayers so badly!
Jeez, why so hostile?

Can't say that I've ever seen a self-identified atheist asking for prayers.

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Old 12-19-2012, 21:56   #50
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Originally Posted by 9jeeps View Post
So why do so many unbelievers call out to our God when there is a big tragedy in theirs and others lives? Or fear reigns in their minds?

EXAMPLES:
Oh my God!!,
Jesus Christ!
God Almighty!
God damn you!
Send me some prayers I, my family, my friend, Buddy, our country, my dog; cat; kid, loved one, adnauseum, need prayers so badly!

Sorry people, you betray yourselves. When you are in your weakness everyone of you call on the most powerful name you can speak to relieve you of your drama.

I see it here all the time and have even called a few on thier abusive language a time or two.

Some of you use Angels, some, with dropped wings. Aren't these a Christian symbol? How many of you wear Crosses and know not what that even means?

C'mon now boys and girls lets play fair.
Could be that those are common exclamations of various emotions in our culture. But don't let me get in the way of a good delusion.
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Old 12-19-2012, 22:17   #51
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Personally, I've not prayed once since I let go of my faith. Not for me, not for someone I love, not when I felt scared, sad or alone. Not even when I really wanted to. I'm not a hypocrite.

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Old 12-20-2012, 01:03   #52
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Jeez, why so hostile?

Can't say that I've ever seen a self-identified atheist asking for prayers.

-ArtificialGrape
There are theists that do not believe there are any atheists. An atheist asking for prayer makes exactly as much sense as asking for Santa Claus to preform some miracle for you. Like when a theist says that atheists are just angry with their chosen god, it's irritating. No, you don't effing understand what the word atheist means if you think that statement makes any sense at all. But maybe the whole reason they do it is because it is irritating.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:47   #53
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Personally, I've not prayed once since I let go of my faith. Not for me, not for someone I love, not when I felt scared, sad or alone. Not even when I really wanted to. I'm not a hypocrite.

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Why would you feel compelled to pray? Maybe, the same reason as I................
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:49   #54
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Why would you feel compelled to pray? Maybe, the same reason as I................
Because 38 years of religious conditioning takes effort to overcome.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:58   #55
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Personally, I've not prayed once since I let go of my faith. Not for me, not for someone I love, not when I felt scared, sad or alone. Not even when I really wanted to. I'm not a hypocrite.

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This was the hardest part of the brainwashing for me to overcome. When you pray you reaffirm that you believe. When you've been taught from birth to pray insistently, it's very difficult to stop. A recovering alcoholic can avoid places and friends that might trigger him to start drinking again. The recovering Christian can't avoid the voice in his head.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:02   #56
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You keep twisting my qualified statements into absolutes so you can tear down the strawman easier. Only theists deal in absolutes..
Well, by your admission, " Only theists deal in absolutes.." is not true . If you are wrong about that, you could be wrong about other things!


As for proof that there is no god, we've been over this before. The burden of proof lies with the person making the extraordinary (in this case supernatural) claim. I don't have to support the statement that there is no Santa Clause with proof in order for it to be valid and I don't have to support the statement there is no god for the same reason (even though I have here multiple times).
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The existence of supernatural deities runs contrary to everything that has ever been observed in this universe.
"I'm glad Einstein didn't "limit" himself to what is known", or George Washington Carver, or Bill Gates..........................
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The inductive case against god is overwhelming. I don't have to treat an infinitesimally small chance as a real and viable possibility.
No you don't, I'm glad others do...............like organ transplants, stem cell research, etc
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:08   #57
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Why would you feel compelled to pray? Maybe, the same reason as I................
You pray because you can't stop praying they same way an alcoholic can't stop drinking. I had to hit rock bottom before I could stop. See if you can stop praying for a week. If you can't, recite the words to Yankee Doodle when you feel compelled to pray. See if anything changes other than withdrawals from resisting the brainwashing. Resisting gets easier with time, but like the alcoholic, stress will coerce you to go back to you addiction.

Of course, your religion tells you not to do that. You can't put the Lord, YOUR God, to the test. That's part of the brainwashing.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:08   #58
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I don't believe the Christian is the enemy any more then I believe the Muslim is the enemy.

The enemy is doctrine that causes harm. There is doctrine in Christainity that is harmful to the psyche of the believer.
And that is?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:15   #59
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Well, by your admission, " Only theists deal in absolutes.." is not true . If you are wrong about that, you could be wrong about other things!
You're not to good at picking up on sarcasm are you?

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I'm glad Einstein didn't "limit" himself to what is known", or George Washington Carver, or Bill Gates..........................
No, you don't get to put your book of myths on the same shelf as scientific research and engineering. Your book goes over there with Torah, Koran, Greek/Roman and Norse mythology.

Quote:
I'm glad others do...............like organ transplants, stem cell research, etc
Again, you don't get to place superstition on the same level as medical science. My nephew was killed last year in a car accident. His organs saved eight different people. That was made possible through science, not religion. Most theists originally opposed organ transplants as supposedly going against god's will. Religion is a net drag on science. Religion is the main factor holding back stem cell research right now.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:38   #60
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This was the hardest part of the brainwashing for me to overcome.
When I first started out on this new course, I had to vocalize out loud with a "stop" or "no" to prevent myself from automatically praying. I had to literally remind myself that no one was listening.
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