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Old 12-19-2012, 21:17   #51
Geko45
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Personally, I've not prayed once since I let go of my faith. Not for me, not for someone I love, not when I felt scared, sad or alone. Not even when I really wanted to. I'm not a hypocrite.

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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 00:03   #52
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Jeez, why so hostile?

Can't say that I've ever seen a self-identified atheist asking for prayers.

-ArtificialGrape
There are theists that do not believe there are any atheists. An atheist asking for prayer makes exactly as much sense as asking for Santa Claus to preform some miracle for you. Like when a theist says that atheists are just angry with their chosen god, it's irritating. No, you don't effing understand what the word atheist means if you think that statement makes any sense at all. But maybe the whole reason they do it is because it is irritating.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:47   #53
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Personally, I've not prayed once since I let go of my faith. Not for me, not for someone I love, not when I felt scared, sad or alone. Not even when I really wanted to. I'm not a hypocrite.

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Why would you feel compelled to pray? Maybe, the same reason as I................
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:49   #54
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Why would you feel compelled to pray? Maybe, the same reason as I................
Because 38 years of religious conditioning takes effort to overcome.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:58   #55
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Personally, I've not prayed once since I let go of my faith. Not for me, not for someone I love, not when I felt scared, sad or alone. Not even when I really wanted to. I'm not a hypocrite.

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This was the hardest part of the brainwashing for me to overcome. When you pray you reaffirm that you believe. When you've been taught from birth to pray insistently, it's very difficult to stop. A recovering alcoholic can avoid places and friends that might trigger him to start drinking again. The recovering Christian can't avoid the voice in his head.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:02   #56
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You keep twisting my qualified statements into absolutes so you can tear down the strawman easier. Only theists deal in absolutes..
Well, by your admission, " Only theists deal in absolutes.." is not true . If you are wrong about that, you could be wrong about other things!


As for proof that there is no god, we've been over this before. The burden of proof lies with the person making the extraordinary (in this case supernatural) claim. I don't have to support the statement that there is no Santa Clause with proof in order for it to be valid and I don't have to support the statement there is no god for the same reason (even though I have here multiple times).
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The existence of supernatural deities runs contrary to everything that has ever been observed in this universe.
"I'm glad Einstein didn't "limit" himself to what is known", or George Washington Carver, or Bill Gates..........................
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The inductive case against god is overwhelming. I don't have to treat an infinitesimally small chance as a real and viable possibility.
No you don't, I'm glad others do...............like organ transplants, stem cell research, etc
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:08   #57
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Why would you feel compelled to pray? Maybe, the same reason as I................
You pray because you can't stop praying they same way an alcoholic can't stop drinking. I had to hit rock bottom before I could stop. See if you can stop praying for a week. If you can't, recite the words to Yankee Doodle when you feel compelled to pray. See if anything changes other than withdrawals from resisting the brainwashing. Resisting gets easier with time, but like the alcoholic, stress will coerce you to go back to you addiction.

Of course, your religion tells you not to do that. You can't put the Lord, YOUR God, to the test. That's part of the brainwashing.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:08   #58
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I don't believe the Christian is the enemy any more then I believe the Muslim is the enemy.

The enemy is doctrine that causes harm. There is doctrine in Christainity that is harmful to the psyche of the believer.
And that is?
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:15   #59
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Originally Posted by scccdoc View Post
Well, by your admission, " Only theists deal in absolutes.." is not true . If you are wrong about that, you could be wrong about other things!
You're not to good at picking up on sarcasm are you?

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I'm glad Einstein didn't "limit" himself to what is known", or George Washington Carver, or Bill Gates..........................
No, you don't get to put your book of myths on the same shelf as scientific research and engineering. Your book goes over there with Torah, Koran, Greek/Roman and Norse mythology.

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I'm glad others do...............like organ transplants, stem cell research, etc
Again, you don't get to place superstition on the same level as medical science. My nephew was killed last year in a car accident. His organs saved eight different people. That was made possible through science, not religion. Most theists originally opposed organ transplants as supposedly going against god's will. Religion is a net drag on science. Religion is the main factor holding back stem cell research right now.
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CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 12-20-2012 at 07:18..
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:38   #60
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
This was the hardest part of the brainwashing for me to overcome.
When I first started out on this new course, I had to vocalize out loud with a "stop" or "no" to prevent myself from automatically praying. I had to literally remind myself that no one was listening.
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CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 12-20-2012 at 07:39..
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:43   #61
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
You're not to good at picking up on sarcasm are you?
Do you want to exchange Holiday gifts too? Your sarcasm mimics your personality (no offense intended)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45;19758223No, you don't get to put your[B
book of myths[/B] on the same shelf as scientific research and engineering. Your book goes over there with Torah, Koran, Greek/Roman and Norse mythology.
It is not proven it is a book of myths. I guess people considered it a myth to travel into outer space at one time........[/QUOTE]




QUOTE=Geko45;19758223]Again, you don't get to place superstition on the same level as medical science. My nephew was killed last year in a car accident. His organs saved eight different people. That was made possible through science, not religion. Most theists originally opposed organ transplants as supposedly going against god's will. Religion is a net drag on science. Religion is the main factor holding back stem cell research right now.[/QUOTE]

Prove that it is superstition.
Maybe I received one of those organs !!!!!!!!! I owe thanks to the donor
"Most theist", certainly not all, I'll stand up to be counted.
All sciences?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:08   #62
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It is not proven it is a book of myths. I guess people considered it a myth to travel into outer space at one time........
There you go again. World wide floods, talking snakes, 900 year old men, a virgin birth, coming back from the dead, and so on, are all myths until proven otherwise. Other than invoking the supernatural, no one can even speculate how these things are possible. Until someone produces evidence these things happened or how they possibly could have happened, they will remain in the realm of fiction, like Hansel and Gretel, Snow White, and so on. Once again, citing the Bible is not evidence. Things are not true simply because someone says they are and no none can prove them false.


Traveling into outer space was fiction until it actually happened. There are several differences between traveling in outer space and the stories in the Bible. We knew on one had traveled into outer space. Any who claimed to have done so would have to provide proof. In addition, we knew what it would take to go into outer space. The science was available for decades, but we had to wait for the willpower to do it, and the engineering to catch up.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:08   #63
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And that is?
Separate yourself from non-Christians.

God loves you if you are submissive. If you are not submissive you will go through the tribulation.........but God loves you.

This world is not our home.

Jesus is coming back and taking us out of this evil world. The rapture is going to happen, we just don't know when, but expect it at any moment.

People will live forever somewhere, either in heaven or hell.

All people are sinners and worthy of death.

God requires blood in order to forgive.

God is tribal. God is on the side of the chosen people.....us. Most of us anyways.......are you with us?

As a Christian you don't know that these ways of thinking are harmful to you, and the rest of the world. To you they are the truth. If your truth is a lie, how can it not be harmful?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:15   #64
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You pray because you can't stop praying they same way an alcoholic can't stop drinking. I had to hit rock bottom before I could stop. See if you can stop praying for a week. If you can't, recite the words to Yankee Doodle when you feel compelled to pray. See if anything changes other than withdrawals from resisting the brainwashing. Resisting gets easier with time, but like the alcoholic, stress will coerce you to go back to you addiction.

Of course, your religion tells you not to do that. You can't put the Lord, YOUR God, to the test. That's part of the brainwashing.
I enjoy my time of prayer, actually, I don't pray enough. Brainwashing? No, a time to have fellowship with the Lord. I find it comforting...........
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:15   #65
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Prove that it is superstition.
"Superstition is a belief in supernatural causality: that one event leads to the cause of another without any physical process linking the two events, such as astrology, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science."
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CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:17   #66
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Separate yourself from non-Christians.

God loves you if you are submissive. If you are not submissive you will go through the tribulation.........but God loves you.

This world is not our home.

Jesus is coming back and taking us out of this evil world. The rapture is going to happen, we just don't know when, but expect it at any moment.

People will live forever somewhere, either in heaven or hell.

All people are sinners and worthy of death.

God requires blood in order to forgive.

God is tribal. God is on the side of the chosen people.....us. Most of us anyways.......are you with us?

As a Christian you don't know that these ways of thinking are harmful to you, and the rest of the world. To you they are the truth. If your truth is a lie, how can it not be harmful?
Because it's not a lie, simple. Are you done ?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:18   #67
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I enjoy my time of prayer, actually, I don't pray enough. Brainwashing? No, a time to have fellowship with the Lord. I find it comforting...........
I liked my time spent in prayer too. It was indeed comforting, but that didn't make it any less of a self-delusion.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:19   #68
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Because it's not a lie, simple. Are you done ?
If it were, how would you know? How do you honestly test that hypothesis when you yourself are subject to overwhelming confirmation bias?
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:21   #69
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Because it's not a lie, simple. Are you done ?
Done with what?

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Old 12-20-2012, 08:31   #70
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"Superstition is a belief in supernatural causality: that one event leads to the cause of another without any physical process linking the two events, such as astrology, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science."
You've proven the definition of "superstition". Very good! Now prove that God is "superstition", though this has been attempted in other threads and for naught.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:38   #71
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If it were, how would you know? How do you honestly test that hypothesis when you yourself are subject to overwhelming confirmation bias?
If it is not, how would you know?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:39   #72
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Done with what?

Your pointless line of questioning.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:40   #73
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Nice to see the "gang" again.......safety in numbers,huh?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:45   #74
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If it is not, how would you know?
I've answered that question many times on this forum, I'd like to hear your answer to this question. If it were a lie, how would you be able to tell?
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:46   #75
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Nice to see the "gang" again.......safety in numbers,huh?
Since we don't pray, we have more free time.

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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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