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Old 12-20-2012, 13:09   #101
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If it was a global flood then it is simply impossible. If it was a local flood then it wasn't divine (just an ordinary flood or tsunami, etc).

If jesus rose from the dead then that's impossible. If he was simply comatose then he was just an extroardinarily lucky man.

Pick your position Doc. Were these things divine acts of a supernatural (and impossible) nature or were they natural events that were simply misconstrued by the people that experienced them?
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:00   #102
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The Indian Ocean and Japanese tsunamis were both caused by entirely explainable events (fault movement at the ocean floor).
Garden variety? Who said God doesn't use nature to display His power?

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There is no natural explanation for a global flood.
Assuming you know all information in the universe regarding this subject. A bit arrogant I'd say.



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Are you suggesting that these events were much more local and explainable in nature and that the first hand accounts are simply exaggerated?
No I wasn't, but do you think the people of Indonesia were aware of the mass destruction?It is simply conjecture what they thought but the media put it in perspective, I wonder if they believed there was that much destruction. There is a written account of the "flood" as there is an account of the devastation of the tsunami.

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If so then wouldn't a more logical conclusion be that primitive people mistook completely natural events as "god's will" and that they were not actually supernatural at all?
Logical if you're omnipotent. Are you?

So back to the original question, enough rabbits, do you think I'm your enemy?
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:03   #103
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Garden variety?
I was making a pun on the garden of eden

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So back to the original question, enough rabbits, do you think I'm your enemy?
You'd have to be making a much more coherent argument to be my enemy.

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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

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Old 12-20-2012, 14:07   #104
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If it was a global flood then it is simply impossible. If it was a local flood then it wasn't divine (just an ordinary flood or tsunami, etc).

If jesus rose from the dead then that's impossible. If he was simply comatose then he was just an extroardinarily lucky man.

Pick your position Doc. Were these things divine acts of a supernatural (and impossible) nature or were they natural events that were simply misconstrued by the people that experienced them?
I believe they were acts of GOD. Like your friend, you missed the point of giving examples that men could not have explained some things at that time.Isn't it possible there are things that we cannot explain even today? Quantum physics poses some interesting paradoxes(or so the History Channel says).
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:23   #105
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Isn't it possible there are things that we cannot explain even today? Quantum physics poses some interesting paradoxes(or so the History Channel says).
The difference is that those events are observable and ultimately understandable (even if not intuitive). We can work out the math for why things happen the way they do at the quantum level. What you are doing is waving a wand of obfuscation over mythical events as an argument that these highly unlikely (and by highly I mean for all practical purposes impossible) events might have happened even though no one alive today ever saw them or anything remotely like them.

Huge difference.

Show me something supernatural and if I can't find a rational cause then I might consider it as evidence of a deity. Tell me something supernatural occured a couple thousand years ago and that you have not one single shred of proof other than a tale handed down via tribal tradition by fishermen and sheperds and I'll tell you that you are full of it.
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JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:30   #106
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I was making a pun on the garden of eden
Yeah, well I'm at work, sorry I missed it.



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You'd have to be making a much more coherent argument to be my enemy.

What is incoherent about: Do you posses ALL the knowledge discovered and undiscovered to be able to say that there is no God or how He accomplishes the things Christians and Jews believe he accomplished?(hope that is plain enough, I see you're doing the "demeaning" thing)
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:35   #107
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The difference is that those events are observable and ultimately understandable (even if not intuitive). We can work out the math for why things happen the way they do at the quantum level. What you are doing is waving a wand of obfuscation over mythical events as an argument that these highly unlikely (and by highly I mean for all practical purposes impossible) events might have happened even though no one alive today ever saw them or anything remotely like them.

Huge difference.

Show me something supernatural and if I can't find a rational cause then I might consider it as evidence of a deity. Tell me something supernatural occured a couple thousand years ago and that you have not one single shred of proof other than a tale handed down via tribal tradition by fishermen and sheperds and I'll tell you that you are full of it.
Now you're getting testy. Do you posses all knowledge (known and unknown) in order to give me the correct answer?
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:37   #108
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The difference is that those events are observable and ultimately understandable (even if not intuitive). We can work out the math for why things happen the way they do at the quantum level. What you are doing is waving a wand of obfuscation over mythical events as an argument that these highly unlikely (and by highly I mean for all practical purposes impossible) events might have happened even though no one alive today ever saw them or anything remotely like them.

Huge difference.

Show me something supernatural and if I can't find a rational cause then I might consider it as evidence of a deity. Tell me something supernatural occured a couple thousand years ago and that you have not one single shred of proof other than a tale handed down via tribal tradition by fishermen and sheperds and I'll tell you that you are full of it.
So that I'm not incoherent, are you omnipotent?

Am I your enemy?
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:40   #109
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What is incoherent about: Do you posses ALL the knowledge discovered and undiscovered to be able to say that there is no God or how He accomplishes the things Christians and Jews believe he accomplished?(hope that is plain enough, I see you're doing the "demeaning" thing)
Yep, that's the incoherent one I'm talking about, because the answer you are looking for doesn't prove your point. Allow me to illustrate.

Do you posses ALL the knowledge discovered and undiscovered to be able to say that there is no Santa Clause or that he can not accomplish the task of visting every house Christmas night to leave presents?

The answer is quite obviously that you don't and neither do I. No one can honestly claim to have all the knowledge necessary to completely discount the possibility of a fat elf on a sled with a flying reindeer team that delivers presents, but that means nothing. You'd still be foolish to be a grown man and believe in the legend of Santa.

Now, there may have been a very real short, chubby fellow that had an ordinary horse drawn sleigh that went from house to house in his town and delivered presents to needy families at one time, but that is a very ordinary and explainable story that has been inflated to mythical proportions over time by the numerous re-tellings.

In much the same manner, the story of jesus the savior has been inflated well beyond the reality of Jesus the carpenter that lived so long ago.
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JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:41   #110
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Logical if you're omnipotent. Are you?

So back to the original question, enough rabbits, do you think I'm your enemy?
Maybe you're not reading the posts or are you "incoherent?
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:43   #111
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So that I'm not incoherent, are you omnipotent?
Have you missed my repeated explanations in this forum of the differences between inductive and deductive reasoning? Which do we rely on 99% of the time?

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Am I your enemy?
Not you personally, but your misguided ignorance and the cumulative ignorance of other theists like you are a very real danger, yes.
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CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 12-20-2012 at 14:46..
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:43   #112
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See you guys later! MERRY CHRISTMAS................. or whatever you call it! DOC
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:44   #113
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Maybe you're not reading the posts or are you "incoherent?
Maybe you just want to back away from a tangential point that you were losing?
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:44   #114
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See you guys later! MERRY CHRISTMAS................. or whatever you call it! DOC
Merry Christmas, Doc! No hard feelings...

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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:47   #115
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Have you missed my repeated explanations in this forum of the differences between inductive and deductive reasoning? Which do we rely on 99% of the time?



Not you peronally, but your misguided ignorance and the cumulative ignorance of other theists like you are a very real danger, yes.

LOL.......MERRY CHRISTMAS, btw, I'm no more interested in your explanations than you are mine, but why are you so nasty and name calling? Is that the "atheist" way? Sure seems so...................................
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:48   #116
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Merry Christmas, Doc! No hard feelings...

No hard feelings if we keep it civil
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Old 12-20-2012, 14:56   #117
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LOL.......MERRY CHRISTMAS, btw, I'm no more interested in your explanations than you are mine, but why are you so nasty and name calling? Is that the "atheist" way? Sure seems so...................................
Not really trying to be nasty. I'm using words in their correct context, it's just a tough message to here. There is no way to phrase it that won't seem insulting considering your worldview.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 12-20-2012 at 14:56..
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Old 12-20-2012, 20:53   #118
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Some people have a deep seated need to have an enemy. It gives purpose to their empty lives.

Who better to declare your enemy than someone whose core beliefs make them unlikely to retaliate? Christians are the perfect enemy for the cowardly.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:43   #119
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No hard feelings if we keep it civil
You say that after a string of personal attacks unrelated the conversation.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:44   #120
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Some people have a deep seated need to have an enemy. It gives purpose to their empty lives.

Who better to declare your enemy than someone whose core beliefs make them unlikely to retaliate? Christians are the perfect enemy for the cowardly.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
Right. Christians never attack.
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Old 12-22-2012, 00:45   #121
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Right. Christians never attack.
Well, no TRUE Christians, anyway.
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Old 12-22-2012, 23:09   #122
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Certainly not. People who wish to dictate how others must live their lives, and who wish to dictate morality to others; those are the problem.
Those nativity scenes and a message of Christ who died for the benefit of humanity really jam it down people's throats.

On the other hand is the inquisition and religious wars. Why must the two be confused?

There is a battle in progress. Everyone is choosing their side in the conflict. Which side have you chosen?
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:19   #123
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There is a battle in progress. Everyone is choosing their side in the conflict. Which side have you chosen?
You speak as though there are two sides. God and God's enemies.

This would make Christians the only right and the rest wrong.

You set up and maintain the dichotomy of strife as the only reality. Peace on earth is surely not the goal.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:40   #124
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Those nativity scenes and a message of Christ who died for the benefit of humanity really jam it down people's throats.
No, they're propaganda.

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Those nativity scenes and a On the other hand is the inquisition and religious wars. Why must the two be confused?
Because the Inquisition was a tactic used in religious wars. Isn't that obvious?

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There is a battle in progress. Everyone is choosing their side in the conflict. Which side have you chosen?
Progress.
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Old 12-23-2012, 12:31   #125
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Some people have a deep seated need to have an enemy. It gives purpose to their empty lives.

Who better to declare your enemy than someone whose core beliefs make them unlikely to retaliate? Christians are the perfect enemy for the cowardly.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
I thought your god commanded you not to lay down and be a victim. You carry a gun right? You're ready to get down if need be right? You're the guy that throws drinks in people's faces when they need an attitude adjustment right? Why is making you an enemy a cowardly thing to do... unless you're admitting to being weak.
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