GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2013, 21:59   #1
jbailey8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 571
Send a message via Yahoo to jbailey8
News report showing that CCW is "ineffective"


I wasn't impressed with this video and thought some of you may want to take a look. This was uploaded to youtube in 2010 and it was pretty biased. They take a police firearms instructor and put him in an active shooter situation as the attacker to see how average CCers will react. I like the idea as a training point, but the media spin is pathetic.

What's your thoughts?
__________________
Gen 2 Glock 17
Gen 3 Glock 23
S&W Sigma .40
jbailey8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 22:16   #2
APERS
Senior Member
 
APERS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 168
In light of all the mass shootings in gun free zones/posted areas/posted buildings.. CCW is not effective where it is not allowed..?
APERS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 22:19   #3
Atomic Punk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,531
the gloves and setup aside. most gunmen busting into a room dont know in advance who is armed, and exactly where they are.
the whole thing is just silly.
Atomic Punk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 22:23   #4
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 14,397
This is an old story. Have been many threads here.

I don't care if anyone thinks it's ineffective or not.
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 22:38   #5
lilmule
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Buchanan,Tn
Posts: 20
I think anyone is ineffective if the attacker has a firearm out and pointing at you,be silly to try to bring yours out unless you thought they would shoot anyway,then most likly both shot you twice since he had his out him once,with you having the biggest problem.
Last resort situation,distracted stand a chance,against other weapons stand a bigger chance,like ball bat at ten ft and you see it coming.
Carrying a gun does not mean you wont die,but stand a better chance of taking them with you or averting it all together.
Would it pay to stop a crime if it resulted in a gunfight,with others in the vicinity.
Assuming they are whacco yes, otherwise no.
lilmule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 22:42   #6
Gray_Rider
Senior Member
 
Gray_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville Fla.
Posts: 1,434
Blog Entries: 1
Never faced with an active shooter situatuion, but I would beg to differ with the effectiveness of CCW for my part....I would have been in serious trouble w/o one on at least one occasion and I didn't even have to draw it. Hundreds of such situations like mine go down every month and everyone goes home safe. No shots fired, just the presence......

Gray_Rider
__________________
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862!

Last edited by Gray_Rider; 01-04-2013 at 22:52..
Gray_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 06:40   #7
xmanhockey7
Senior Member
 
xmanhockey7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 1,319
Don't even get me started about how B.S. this "news report" is. I bet I can make a video that shows the "CCW" holder to be a great to have. They'll even get the girl when the dust settles.
__________________
My current avatar is the logo for my group Young Guns of Michigan. Check us out on Facebook!
xmanhockey7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 06:46   #8
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbailey8 View Post
What's your thoughts?
It is ridiculous and proves nothing. My evidence? Time after time after time we post news articles of CCWers winning against bad guys who have drawn guns, superior numbers, surprise, etc.

It clearly works and it always has - that's why the police carry guns.

I'm a concealed carry permit holder - I'll bet I have more training and qualification, including more certifications as a law enforcement firearms instrutor than everybody in that video combined.
__________________
Open carry activists are to gun rights what the Westboro Baptist Church is to free speech.

Last edited by Bren; 01-05-2013 at 08:12..
Bren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:47   #9
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,396
I think it's interesting that these people are so clueless that they try to take on an armed intruder with simunitions rather than taking cover and fleeing.

Taking people who have never carried before, pretending they respond like the average ccwer seems rather dubious too.

Randy

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

Last edited by steveksux; 01-05-2013 at 07:48..
steveksux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:48   #10
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 42,611
Blog Entries: 64
First, anything put out by VPC, the Violence Policy Center, http://www.vpc.org/index.htm, should not be considered a "news report."

VPC is an anti-firearm, anti-2nd Amendment group dedicated to disarming America.

Please go to their website before giving the video credibility.
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 07:50   #11
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
First, anything put out by VPC, the Violence Policy Center, http://www.vpc.org/index.htm, should not be considered a "news report."

VPC is an anti-firearm, anti-2nd Amendment group dedicated to disarming America.

Please go to their website before giving the video credibility.
Not their video, they merely stole it from news media.
It's a logical fallacy to shoot the wrong messenger...
Randy


posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
steveksux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 08:40   #12
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 42,611
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
Not their video, they merely stole it from news media.
It's a logical fallacy to shoot the wrong messenger...
Randy
Click on the YouTube link...does it not go to VPC Videos. They are promoting, endorsing the video. Stolen from ABC News? Yeah, and ABC News is the unbiased fair and balanced source for reporting on firearms?

As I said, rephrased, anything put out by, promoted by, endorsed by, used by VPC should not be considered accurate reporting of anything connected to firearms and their legal use.
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 09:32   #13
robhic
Platinum Membership
WOLVERINE!!!!
 
robhic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,761
OK, so I take a few people with MINIMAL (1/2 hour?) training, put gloves on their hands and then expect them to go, cold, into a life-or-death situation? Really? And this passes as fair journalism? What a crock!!!

What about they let them drive around in a new car for an hour or so and then give them a set of tools and tell them to take the engine out. What? Nobody could do that?

Well, that is what, to me, this "demonstration" of how ineffective weapons use is by comparison. GTFO!!!
__________________
-- Robert --
NRA Life Member

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
robhic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 09:42   #14
FireForged
Millenium #3936
 
FireForged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Rebel South
Posts: 4,472
if having a firearm in ineffective against a mad man with a gun then why do people call the police?
__________________
"I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan
FireForged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 09:48   #15
xmanhockey7
Senior Member
 
xmanhockey7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 1,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by robhic View Post
OK, so I take a few people with MINIMAL (1/2 hour?) training, put gloves on their hands and then expect them to go, cold, into a life-or-death situation? Really? And this passes as fair journalism? What a crock!!!

What about they let them drive around in a new car for an hour or so and then give them a set of tools and tell them to take the engine out. What? Nobody could do that?

Well, that is what, to me, this "demonstration" of how ineffective weapons use is by comparison. GTFO!!!
Not to mention the "active shooter" knows exactly who to shoot because they're in on it and everyone in the class goes running past the shooter to do the door. Really? I'm betting there would be far more people ducking under the desk or sitting there frozen.
__________________
My current avatar is the logo for my group Young Guns of Michigan. Check us out on Facebook!
xmanhockey7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:07   #16
WhiskeyUnicorn
Paramagician
 
WhiskeyUnicorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 419
open carry would have prevented this...or a better holster...or if the "gunman" didn't know that guy was armed...
__________________
Obligatory rifles and pistols I have
WhiskeyUnicorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:08   #17
2-8 Marine
Limp Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,264
Pure and utter soya s**t.
__________________
I don't believe in intuition but I have a strange feeling someday I will.

There are three types of people in the world; those that can count and those that can't.
2-8 Marine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:36   #18
Gunnut 45/454
Senior Member
 
Gunnut 45/454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,039
OP then join the unarmed liberals and be a victim! If you can't or do not know how to employ deadly force don't carry! I for one do know how and when to employ deadly force and will every time it's required! Thats the difference! Sure there is alway the chance you will catch a round during a gun fight thats why it called a gun fight! The trick is to make the other guy bleed more!
__________________
Gunnut45/454-One shot one kill!
Gunnut 45/454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 11:08   #19
jbailey8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 571
Send a message via Yahoo to jbailey8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
OP then join the unarmed liberals and be a victim! If you can't or do not know how to employ deadly force don't carry! I for one do know how and when to employ deadly force and will every time it's required! Thats the difference! Sure there is alway the chance you will catch a round during a gun fight thats why it called a gun fight! The trick is to make the other guy bleed more!
Uh.... I said I "wasn't impressed" by the video and then went on to say that the media spin was "biased" and "pathetic." I don't understand how that makes me a liberal.

I said I liked the idea of the scenario as a training tool. I was actually aggravated that the female (the only one to get any shots off) was criticized for "not standing in the right place."

I too am confident in my ability to put rounds on target and employ deadly force. Sorry that you misunderstood why I posted the video.



posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Gen 2 Glock 17
Gen 3 Glock 23
S&W Sigma .40
jbailey8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 14:55   #20
IndyGunFreak
RIP My Friends
 
IndyGunFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 29,697
Send a message via ICQ to IndyGunFreak Send a message via AIM to IndyGunFreak Send a message via MSN to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Yahoo to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Skype™ to IndyGunFreak


Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
This is an old story. Have been many threads here.

I don't care if anyone thinks it's ineffective or not.
Pretty much. This is along the same lines as people saying "CCW reduces crime". Most states, see very little change in their crime rates after ccw passes (aside from normal variations, and crime has been on the downward trend for some time).

I don't care if crime doubles when CCW is passed.. if it's not CCW holders committing the crime, it's irrelevant.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
The fire is no longer my major concern since I am leaving immediately on an unexpected road trip to Indianapolis. Watch the national news over the next couple of days, I'll wave... well, only if I'm cuffed in the front.
RIP Jack
IndyGunFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 16:34   #21
dosei
Senior Member
 
dosei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak View Post
Pretty much. This is along the same lines as people saying "CCW reduces crime". Most states, see very little change in their crime rates after ccw passes (aside from normal variations, and crime has been on the downward trend for some time).

I don't care if crime doubles when CCW is passed.. if it's not CCW holders committing the crime, it's irrelevant.
But one interesting thing to note...in the last 20 years, the violent crime rate has gone DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY according to FBI Stats (and one of the most significant trends in the last 20 years has been the rise of states passing shall-issue laws and the significant increases of people getting permits).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...v=Ooa98FHuaU0#!

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...tables/table-1

Funny isn't it...violent crime has been FALLING STEADILY as the number of states issuing permits and number of people getting permits has steadily been on the increase.

So, who here has been hearing any of this on the news...the steady drops in violent crime...???
__________________
Big Dawg No. 1431
Carolina Glocker No. 1431
"Freedom is a system based on courage" (Charles Peguy)
"Know where the attack against you is likely to come, whether on the street or in court, and have a proven counter already in place" (Mas Ayoob)
dosei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 17:03   #22
dougader
Senior Member
 
dougader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: OryGun
Posts: 3,315
I think it would have been great if they had brought that camera crew to my university. I would have sat there quietly until the"bad" guy came in the room and took aim at the gloved good guy. Then I would have squatted beside my desk, pointed my finger at him and yelled five times bang! bang! bang! bang! bang! You're dead!

If they asked what I thought I was doing, I would simply say: I'm the armed citizen you didn't know about. You're dead. If need be, I would have then opened my coat to show them the Glock 19 I carried every day at PSU.

Wouldn't they be surprised...

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Doug

"In St. Louis, armed Homeland Security agents monitored Tea Party members protesting the IRS. Good idea. When people think their government is out to get them, the best response is to send the government out to get them." -Fred Thompson
dougader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 18:12   #23
Spiffums
I.C.P.
 
Spiffums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,097
Like Eastwood said on Heartbreak Ridge.........handy knowing where you gonna get ambushed.
__________________
Internet Celebrity Personality
Spiffums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 06:15   #24
IndyGunFreak
RIP My Friends
 
IndyGunFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 29,697
Send a message via ICQ to IndyGunFreak Send a message via AIM to IndyGunFreak Send a message via MSN to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Yahoo to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Skype™ to IndyGunFreak


Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
Funny isn't it...violent crime has been FALLING STEADILY as the number of states issuing permits and number of people getting permits has steadily been on the increase.

So, who here has been hearing any of this on the news...the steady drops in violent crime...???
I don't dispute crime has not been falling steadily for several years... I just don't like people saying it's "because of CCW". CCW may have an effect, but I'm sure there's a myriad of other issues that do as well.

Crime rates should be totally irrelevant to CCW Unless there's a massive jump in CCW'ers committing felonies, they're two unrelated issues in my opinion.

As for the news..

IGF
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
The fire is no longer my major concern since I am leaving immediately on an unexpected road trip to Indianapolis. Watch the national news over the next couple of days, I'll wave... well, only if I'm cuffed in the front.
RIP Jack
IndyGunFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 06:44   #25
Lior
GUNS=FREEDOM
 
Lior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 5,783


About statistics and polls:
__________________
Rust and bureaucrats. Freedom and vigilance. Front sight and trigger. Kindness and firepower. Situational awareness and tolerance. Safety and concealment. Taxes and allegiance. Love of man and surgical marksmanship. Once a soldier, always a soldier.
Lior is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:24.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,260
388 Members
872 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42