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Old 01-08-2013, 17:29   #121
RussP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
Yeah don't let the abusers take personal responsibility for their actions ...
Please, tell us how that is going to happen, getting abusers to take personal responsibility for their actions.
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Old 01-08-2013, 17:31   #122
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Being a roof inspector how much experience do you have with drugs and drug crime? Property crime?


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O so clearly now my profession comes into play? I can't point out clear violations of our judicial system without being a LEO?

Couldn't debate the actual law?

Are there any professions where one my garner this jewel?
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Old 01-08-2013, 17:32   #123
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Please, tell us how that is going to happen, getting abusers to take personal responsibility for their actions.
Stop saving them from themselves and stop the flow of tax payer money to subsidize their problems.
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Old 01-08-2013, 17:33   #124
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
No one cares about any law or the safety of others.
Very few do and most of them are POLICE, FIRE or EMS.

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Right no one cares. Such the elitist. Maybe you can't see all the miltary units I served in under my signature.

Clearly only you can save us by accepting the blatant violations of our laws.
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Old 01-08-2013, 17:50   #125
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Stop saving them from themselves and stop the flow of tax payer money to subsidize their problems.
Okay, your plan is to decriminalize the possession and use of all drugs, right?

Next, your plan removes all subsidies for the treatment of drug users. Treatment, does that include counselling to prevent use, too?

Your plan's success is predicated on drug users dying, they die off.

Is there more that I did not mention?
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Old 01-08-2013, 18:26   #126
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Don't take this as an insult, because it is not meant to be. But, this is seriously what TBO meant by real world experience.

Yes...I've responded to murders over less than $50 worth of dope. Yes...Junkies will go through your unlocked car for the change or GPS units just to buy a $10 bag of dope. Yes...your nephew will steal your iPad to pawn and then get enough dope to last him 2 days.

Heroin has a tolerance like any other opiate. When you start, $10-20 bucks a day can get you messed up all day long. Before you know it - you are using $100 worth just to keep off your sickness and withdrawal. It's a nasty world....
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To the extent that prohibitions result in increased prices, they produce increased crime and political corruption. Higher prices for a prohibited product also result in the substitution of related products and the innovation of more dangerous substitutes. Prohibited products tend to be more dangerous than legal substitutes in many respects, the result of prohibition, not the product itself.
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Old 01-08-2013, 18:32   #127
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Can you please advise of the joint smoker in prison??


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Here are federal sentencing guidelines:

http://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2

As you can see, 3rd offense can get you 3 yrs in the federal system. If there is a gun in the house there is another MANDATORY aggravated sentence. Also, many smokers grow at home..

The federal system has a whole bunch of pot smokers in it.

ARS
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Old 01-08-2013, 18:51   #128
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Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
I haven't heard of ANYONE saying we should legalize all drugs, only marijuana.

Let's flip this statement around and say "Yep, let's make drugs illegal". Where has that gotten us so far? We should be treating drug users, not arresting them (for drug possession/use/abuse).
It's just an opinion of course, but I'm thinking that if all drugs were legal and OTC, there would be a learning curve but the gene pool would start to clear in a few years. The jails would be near empty, allowing LE to concentrate on criminals.
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Old 01-08-2013, 18:55   #129
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Okay, your plan is to decriminalize the possession and use of all drugs, right?

Next, your plan removes all subsidies for the treatment of drug users. Treatment, does that include counselling to prevent use, too?

Your plan's success is predicated on drug users dying, they die off.

Is there more that I did not mention?
Good argument Russ, I agree that people who are going to choose dumb over smart will smash their fingers in the truck door more often than not. The pain will cure the smarter ones.

Think also that the Government services related to drugs should not stop but would dramatically reduce themselves.
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Old 01-08-2013, 18:59   #130
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Originally Posted by aspartz View Post
Here are federal sentencing guidelines:

http://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2

As you can see, 3rd offense can get you 3 yrs in the federal system. If there is a gun in the house there is another MANDATORY aggravated sentence. Also, many smokers grow at home..

The federal system has a whole bunch of pot smokers in it.

ARS
Ok. You've shown me the federal sentencing guidelines. Show me the "joint smoker" doing prison time. Just for smoking a J on the street.
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Old 01-08-2013, 19:00   #131
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Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
Right no one cares. Such the elitist. Maybe you can't see all the miltary units I served in under my signature.

Clearly only you can save us by accepting the blatant violations of our laws.

How does it feel that no matter how much you type, you're still wrong?
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Old 01-08-2013, 19:03   #132
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Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
O so clearly now my profession comes into play? I can't point out clear violations of our judicial system without being a LEO?..

?
You are more than welcome to and I admire your persistence. However what you think it means and what hundreds of thousands who have advanced degrees in law, teach law, and read, interpret and administer it daily apparently think it means something different than do you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aspartz View Post
Here are federal sentencing guidelines:

http://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2

As you can see, 3rd offense can get you 3 yrs in the federal system. If there is a gun in the house there is another MANDATORY aggravated sentence. Also, many smokers grow at home..

The federal system has a whole bunch of pot smokers in it.

ARS
Still I wonder how many of them are there because their only crime was using recreational amounts in the confines of their own home.
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Old 01-08-2013, 20:01   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Okay, your plan is to decriminalize the possession and use of all drugs, right?

Next, your plan removes all subsidies for the treatment of drug users. Treatment, does that include counselling to prevent use, too?

Your plan's success is predicated on drug users dying, they die off.

Is there more that I did not mention?
The first part of the plan is follow the guidelines set forth by the Constitution. What the States do next is up to them and their citizens. My choice would be to defund social programs that enable addicts.

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How does it feel that no matter how much you type, you're still wrong?
Everything I stated was factual. Your perversion of the facts and your justification for it only confirm what I already knew.

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Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
You are more than welcome to and I admire your persistence. However what you think it means and what hundreds of thousands who have advanced degrees in law, teach law, and read, interpret and administer it daily apparently think it means something different than do you.



Still I wonder how many of them are there because their only crime was using recreational amounts in the confines of their own home.
If you can't point out the provisions in the COTUS that allow for these "interpretations" then it's a safe bet they can't either. If a hundreds of thousands of people can point to provisions such as the power of judicial review and the circumvention of the COTUS then you may have an argument. Thing is you can't and neither can they. You have merely accepted it and gave up. That doesn't make you any less wrong.
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Old 01-08-2013, 20:09   #134
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Really, great thread and arguments. Still no one has justified the usurpation of the 10A or pointed out the constitutionality of the Judicial Branch of government granting itself a power not delegated to it.

Pretty much the basis for the entire argument. Not one single factual debate from any of you. Half of you will be complaining about some law or violation of right tomorrow but will fail to see the relevance of the conversation. Sad.
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Old 01-08-2013, 20:20   #135
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I think its pretty obvious using meth and heroin recreationally doesn't do anything positive for anyone. Good thing marijuana isn't a drug.

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Old 01-08-2013, 21:20   #136
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For the sake of efficiency, and a solution that would actually work...

You could legalize whichever drugs your wanted, but then...
Establish a list of substances that if found in your system will nullify your Obamacare/health insurance, revoke your EBT card, cancel any and all gov't monies or benefits you receive for anything, and lose your right to vote, all for the next five years. Additionally, change the three-strikes-and-you're-out law to three-strikes-and-you're-dead. I predict a sharp increase in crime for the very short term, followed by a long, slow decrease, ultimately resulting in tax savings and gene-pool cleansing and a lower crime rate.

The Dems will never go for it, though, because their constituency would all be dead.
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Old 01-08-2013, 21:35   #137
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Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
The first part of the plan is follow the guidelines set forth by the Constitution. What the States do next is up to them and their citizens. My choice would be to defund social programs that enable addicts.
So you really are not so much for decriminalizing the manufacturing, distribution, sale, and use of drugs, you just want the federal government to cede that power to the states. You want each of the states to decide on their own whether the manufacturing, distribution, sale, and use of drugs should be permitted.

However, regardless of the laws, you want all programs related to treatment of drug users defunded. When you say defunded, do you mean private funding as well as tax dollar funding?

What about international suppliers? Who gets to deal with the flow of drugs from sources outside our international borders?
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Old 01-08-2013, 21:52   #138
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Still I wonder how many of them are there because their only crime was using recreational amounts in the confines of their own home.
I used to teach in a State prison. This prison was so bad that it was rated the most dangerous prison in the US.

I never met anyone who was there for just smoking MJ in their homes. That is a myth.
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Old 01-08-2013, 22:02   #139
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Just what form of protective bubble is going to be around these drugs, especially imported, that is going to render them the only substance, from apple juice to zucchini pickles including cold medication to cold crème, that you can put in or on your body, that will be free from Government inspection, regulation, and taxes to pay for the first two?

do you think the pharmaceutical, tobacco and alcohol industries are going to stand by and do nothing wile they are being taxed on their products?

All of this is going to keep it "cheap' right?

How is the importation going to work legally? what about States that don't legalize it but are trafficked through by folks transporting?
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:55   #140
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If anyone thinks that meth, crack, cocaine, herione, or anything like that should be legal they are crazy. Ive never seen pot do that to anyone like in the photos. A lot of people covet their alcohol, but condemn pot users. That is just silly. Pot should, and will eventually be legal.
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