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Old 01-09-2013, 08:18   #141
Chesafreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
I used to teach in a State prison. This prison was so bad that it was rated the most dangerous prison in the US.

I never met anyone who was there for just smoking MJ in their homes. That is a myth.
That makes sense. You would think that those arrested solely for MJ use/possession would be in a county jail, not be in a max security state jail, if they ever were caught at all.

Anyone who thinks that there aren't a LOT of otherwise law abiding, clean cut people out there that smoke MJ in the privacy of their own home and stays out of trouble is jaded by whatever LE job or just out of touch with reality. I have known quite a few people who do so and will never ever be caught unless they are caught while buying, because they just stay out of trouble and fly under the radar. They haven't affected your perception of pot smokers because you never realized anything was different about them. I don't think anything less of them for doing so. It would be hypocritical of me to judge them with a drink in my hand.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:21   #142
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Do you drink more than 4 beers during the Sunday NFL games? Did you have more than 4 watching the BCS Monday night?

You are a binge drinker

http://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/bingedrinking/

New estimates show that binge drinking* is a bigger problem than previously thought. More than 38 million US adults binge drink, about 4 times a month, and the largest number of drinks per binge is on average 8. This behavior greatly increases the chances of getting hurt or hurting others due to car crashes, violence, and suicide. Drinking too much, including binge drinking, causes 80,000 deaths in the US each year and, in 2006 cost the economy $223.5 billion. Binge drinking is a problem in all states, even in states with fewer binge drinkers, because they are binging more often and in larger amounts.

*Binge drinking means men drinking 5 or more alcoholic drinks within a short period of time or women drinking 4 or more drinks within a short period of time.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:29   #143
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I was just thinking about how some people are judgmental of MJ users while thinking nothing of having a drink or smoke another plant called tobacco (also drugs) or of taking prescription drugs with a long list of side effects, but somehow this plant is bad. I wonder how many prescription drug companies that stand to lose a lot of money to legalized MJ have been quietly pumping money into lobbying against it?

Just like guns, its not the MJ that's evil, its the user.

Regarding any other illegal drugs, they should stay that way IMO.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:30   #144
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It's not the drugs. It's the users.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:46   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
I was just thinking about how some people are judgmental of MJ users while thinking nothing of having a drink or smoke another plant called tobacco (also drugs) or of taking prescription drugs with a long list of side effects, but somehow this plant is bad. I wonder how many prescription drug companies that stand to lose a lot of money to legalized MJ have been quietly pumping money into lobbying against it?

Just like guns, its not the MJ that's evil, its the user.

Regarding any other illegal drugs, they should stay that way IMO.
http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/in-t...l-tobacco.html

The idea that alcohol and tobacco companies would oppose looser restrictions on marijuana may seem odd. After all, both industries are in the business of making people feel good. But a number of researchers have found that pot turns out to be more of a substitute for alcohol and tobacco than a complement. In 2009, Amanda Reiman, a UC Berkeley social scientist, published a study in the Harm Reduction Journal showing that 40 percent of her patient population had substituted cannabis for booze at some point. Other studies found that when pot smokers can’t find marijuana they binge drink instead. Simply put: the tobacco and alcohol companies are worried about losing market share to weed.
In 1991, NORML used a Freedom of Information Act request to examine the funding records of the Partnership for a Drug-Free America, a nonprofit that provides anti-drug resources to parents. They discovered that 50 percent of the organization’s capital came from the alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical industries. So embarrassing was this revelation that, according to St. Pierre, “ever since, these industries have tried to hide their marijuana opposition.”

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/m...lobby-illegal/

However, we at Republic Report think it’s worth showing that there are entrenched interest groups that are spending large sums of money to keep our broken drug laws on the books:
1.) Police Unions: Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget. In March, we published a story revealing that a police union lobbyist in California coordinated the effort to defeat Prop 19, a ballot measure in 2010 to legalize marijuana, while helping his police department clients collect tens of millions in federal marijuana-eradication grants. And it’s not just in California. Federal lobbying disclosures show that other police union lobbyists have pushed for stiffer penalties for marijuana-related crimes nationwide.
2.) Private Prisons Corporations: Private prison corporations make millions by incarcerating people who have been imprisoned for drug crimes, including marijuana. As Republic Report’s Matt Stoller noted last year, Corrections Corporation of America, one of the largest for-profit prison companies, revealed in a regulatory filing that continuing the drug war is part in parcel to their business strategy. Prison companies have spent millions bankrolling pro-drug war politicians and have used secretive front groups, like the American Legislative Exchange Council, to pass harsh sentencing requirements for drug crimes.
3.) Alcohol and Beer Companies: Fearing competition for the dollars Americans spend on leisure, alcohol and tobacco interests have lobbied to keep marijuana out of reach. For instance, the California Beer & Beverage Distributors contributed campaign contributions to a committee set up to prevent marijuana from being legalized and taxed.
4.) Pharmaceutical Corporations: Like the sin industries listed above, pharmaceutical interests would like to keep marijuana illegal so American don’t have the option of cheap medical alternatives to their products. Howard Wooldridge, a retired police officer who now lobbies the government to relax marijuana prohibition laws, told Republic Report that next to police unions, the “second biggest opponent on Capitol Hill is big PhRMA” because marijuana can replace “everything from Advil to Vicodin and other expensive pills.”
5.) Prison Guard Unions: Prison guard unions have a vested interest in keeping people behind bars just like for-profit prison companies. In 2008, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association spent a whopping $1 million to defeat a measure that would have “reduced sentences and parole times for nonviolent drug offenders while emphasizing drug treatment over prison.”
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:40   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
The people who scream the loudest for decriminalization are the furthest from having to deal with it.

Those on here who scream about the legalization of drugs and how it is unconstitutional have never had to tell parents that their 17 YO daughter overdosed and was found dead in a Walmart bathroom.




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Old 01-09-2013, 09:52   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
So you really are not so much for decriminalizing the manufacturing, distribution, sale, and use of drugs, you just want the federal government to cede that power to the states. You want each of the states to decide on their own whether the manufacturing, distribution, sale, and use of drugs should be permitted.
That is what the Constitution mandates.

Quote:
However, regardless of the laws, you want all programs related to treatment of drug users defunded. When you say defunded, do you mean private funding as well as tax dollar funding?
Defund all taxpayer-funded social programs.

Quote:
What about international suppliers? Who gets to deal with the flow of drugs from sources outside our international borders?
That is clearly fed territory. No issues with regulating importation of cocaine, heroine or foreign weed, mexican meth, etc.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:54   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcooper View Post
http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/in-t...l-tobacco.html

The idea that alcohol and tobacco companies would oppose looser restrictions on marijuana may seem odd. After all, both industries are in the business of making people feel good. But a number of researchers have found that pot turns out to be more of a substitute for alcohol and tobacco than a complement. In 2009, Amanda Reiman, a UC Berkeley social scientist, published a study in the Harm Reduction Journal showing that 40 percent of her patient population had substituted cannabis for booze at some point. Other studies found that when pot smokers can’t find marijuana they binge drink instead. Simply put: the tobacco and alcohol companies are worried about losing market share to weed.
In 1991, NORML used a Freedom of Information Act request to examine the funding records of the Partnership for a Drug-Free America, a nonprofit that provides anti-drug resources to parents. They discovered that 50 percent of the organization’s capital came from the alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical industries. So embarrassing was this revelation that, according to St. Pierre, “ever since, these industries have tried to hide their marijuana opposition.”

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/m...lobby-illegal/

However, we at Republic Report think it’s worth showing that there are entrenched interest groups that are spending large sums of money to keep our broken drug laws on the books:
1.) Police Unions: Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget. In March, we published a story revealing that a police union lobbyist in California coordinated the effort to defeat Prop 19, a ballot measure in 2010 to legalize marijuana, while helping his police department clients collect tens of millions in federal marijuana-eradication grants. And it’s not just in California. Federal lobbying disclosures show that other police union lobbyists have pushed for stiffer penalties for marijuana-related crimes nationwide.
2.) Private Prisons Corporations: Private prison corporations make millions by incarcerating people who have been imprisoned for drug crimes, including marijuana. As Republic Report’s Matt Stoller noted last year, Corrections Corporation of America, one of the largest for-profit prison companies, revealed in a regulatory filing that continuing the drug war is part in parcel to their business strategy. Prison companies have spent millions bankrolling pro-drug war politicians and have used secretive front groups, like the American Legislative Exchange Council, to pass harsh sentencing requirements for drug crimes.
3.) Alcohol and Beer Companies: Fearing competition for the dollars Americans spend on leisure, alcohol and tobacco interests have lobbied to keep marijuana out of reach. For instance, the California Beer & Beverage Distributors contributed campaign contributions to a committee set up to prevent marijuana from being legalized and taxed.
4.) Pharmaceutical Corporations: Like the sin industries listed above, pharmaceutical interests would like to keep marijuana illegal so American don’t have the option of cheap medical alternatives to their products. Howard Wooldridge, a retired police officer who now lobbies the government to relax marijuana prohibition laws, told Republic Report that next to police unions, the “second biggest opponent on Capitol Hill is big PhRMA” because marijuana can replace “everything from Advil to Vicodin and other expensive pills.”
5.) Prison Guard Unions: Prison guard unions have a vested interest in keeping people behind bars just like for-profit prison companies. In 2008, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association spent a whopping $1 million to defeat a measure that would have “reduced sentences and parole times for nonviolent drug offenders while emphasizing drug treatment over prison.”
I pointed out recently in another thread that police officers and police departments have a financial interest in DUI checkpoints continuing.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:15   #149
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To save time, I just want to reference my comments the last 87 times this topic was discussed.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:25   #150
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Why did it take an amendment to the Constitution to prohibit beverage alcohol but not to prohibit other recreational drugs, most of which were in use when the 18th amendment was passed?


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Old 01-09-2013, 10:59   #151
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The negative effects of drugs, including addiction and death, are actually about 50% of the reason I support complete legalization. Glad you guys are all weepy and sympathetic, but I am not. Protecting the lowest common denominator of our society from themselves just makes our society weaker. It got us where we are now. Drug laws to protect the stupid from themselves are as destructive as welfare.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:02   #152
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The negative effects of drugs, including addiction and death, are actually about 50% of the reason I support complete legalization. Glad you guys are all weepy and sympathetic, but I am not. Protecting the lowest common denominator of our society from themselves just makes our society weaker. It got us where we are now. Drug laws to protect the stupid from themselves are as destructive as welfare.
That's probably the most effective way of dealing with the problem. Let nature do what nature does.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:11   #153
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The negative effects of drugs, including addiction and death, are actually about 50% of the reason I support complete legalization. Glad you guys are all weepy and sympathetic, but I am not. Protecting the lowest common denominator of our society from themselves just makes our society weaker. It got us where we are now. Drug laws to protect the stupid from themselves are as destructive as welfare.
Reestablish the concept of personal responsibility, in other words.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:48   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
So you really are not so much for decriminalizing the manufacturing, distribution, sale, and use of drugs, you just want the federal government to cede that power to the states. You want each of the states to decide on their own whether the manufacturing, distribution, sale, and use of drugs should be permitted.

However, regardless of the laws, you want all programs related to treatment of drug users defunded. When you say defunded, do you mean private funding as well as tax dollar funding?

What about international suppliers? Who gets to deal with the flow of drugs from sources outside our international borders?
That would be a great start. As a matter of fact some States have already decided to ignore unconstitutional federal drug laws.

CF's answer covered it well.

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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
That is what the Constitution mandates.



Defund all taxpayer-funded social programs.



That is clearly fed territory. No issues with regulating importation of cocaine, heroine or foreign weed, mexican meth, etc.
Agreed

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Why did it take an amendment to the Constitution to prohibit beverage alcohol but not to prohibit other recreational drugs, most of which were in use when the 18th amendment was passed?


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Best of luck waiting for a response on that one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
The negative effects of drugs, including addiction and death, are actually about 50% of the reason I support complete legalization. Glad you guys are all weepy and sympathetic, but I am not. Protecting the lowest common denominator of our society from themselves just makes our society weaker. It got us where we are now. Drug laws to protect the stupid from themselves are as destructive as welfare.
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Reestablish the concept of personal responsibility, in other words.
Was that easier to accept when Bren stated it?
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Old 01-09-2013, 13:03   #155
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While finding some teenage girl dead in the Wal-Mart bathroom is horribly sad, it's our problem, not Mexico's or Columbia's or Afghanistan's, however, through our own set of failed values, we are killing hundreds, if not thousands of Mexicans annualy indirectly.

If WE leagalize the stuff, the killing in MEXICO will STOP almost OVERNIGHT. Then WE start fixing OUR problem.

Yeah, the faces of the meth heads look a little bad. Doesn't even come close though to the chopped up, mutilated, beheaded, hung, garroted, bullet ridden DEAD BODIES that are found in MEXICO EVERY DAY. The meth heads had a choice. The aforementioned CORPSES in MEXICO usually DID NOT.

If we really want to fight a "war on drugs" we send F16's, A-1 Abrams tanks, Marines, Army. You drop "Daisy Cutter" bombs. If we did this right, we could be done with it in a month.

The politically correct crap we're trying to do in Mexico ranks right up there with the way we fought Vietnam in the last few years of that conflict.

The only reason I can see the U.S. "fighting" this the way we do is because we know the starvation that will follow after Mexico's prime source of income is gone.

"Drug War". What a load of crap.

All the Best,
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Old 01-09-2013, 14:16   #156
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As a matter of fact some States have already decided to ignore unconstitutional federal drug laws.
How so?

By changing the state penalties for drug offenses?

You really don't get federal/state jurisdiction at all do you?

I think I'm beginning to understand the disconnect in your postings.
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Old 01-09-2013, 15:23   #157
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Reestablish the concept of personal responsibility, in other words.
The same we we establish things like immunity to disease - through evolution - those that don't have it die off, until only those that do have it are left and reproducing.

Currently, we try to protect our population from every danger, like they live in a bubble. That lets the worthless reproduce as much as (or more than) the best. Thinning the herd is recognized as necessary and beneficial for other species, but we never mention it in relation to people.
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Old 01-09-2013, 15:42   #158
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How so?

By changing the state penalties for drug offenses?

You really don't get federal/state jurisdiction at all do you?

I think I'm beginning to understand the disconnect in your postings.
By removing the penalties for some drug "offenses" regardless of the federal guidelines.

I know exactly of which I speak. I'll let you tend to the imaginary arguments about Judicial Review, the Incorporation Doctrine and the misuse of the commerce clause.
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Old 01-09-2013, 15:58   #159
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By removing the penalties for some drug "offenses" regardless of the federal guidelines.

I know exactly of which I speak. I'll let you tend to the imaginary arguments about Judicial Review, the Incorporation Doctrine and the misuse of the commerce clause.
So, you really think that when a state decides to stop making something illegal under state law, that automatically makes it legal under federal law, or supercedes the federal law?

What law school did you go to?
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Old 01-09-2013, 16:07   #160
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So, you really think that when a state decides to stop making something illegal under state law, that automatically makes it legal under federal law, or supercedes the federal law?

What law school did you go to?
Nice strawman. Where did I say it became legal under federal law?

Really reaching now aren't you?

All I stated was that some states have decided to ignore federal guidelines in regards to schedule 1 drugs and allow there possession and recreational use.

Amazing.
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