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Old 01-13-2013, 18:18   #26
Glock36shooter
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Originally Posted by elsielover View Post
I play classical music, the viola. Music has in no way informed my religious beliefs. I've been fortunate to play and perform with some of the greatest musicians on the planet. Religion never came up. It didn't need to.


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VERY VERY COOL JOB! Ever work with John Williams?
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:48   #27
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Physician Assistant for the last 17 years, Pharmacy tech for 10 before that. My first 20 years spent in the military, in a lot of different places among a lot of different cultures.

My personal opinion on what I have seen, is that people can be extremely good and selfless beyond comprehension, and bad and selfish to the same extent. I've said it often, but there are heroes and zero's in every group.

The sum total of my experiences lead me to believe there might be, or at least have been a deity at some time, and the nature or identity of that deity is unknown to me, if they exist, or existed. It's just about equally possible that none has ever existed. Oh well.


But, whether or not there is or is not, or has ever been a deity. It's still never too hard to do the right thing.

Currently I work in an internal medicine sub-specialty. I get to say I fight cancer every day, and mean it.

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Old 01-13-2013, 19:58   #28
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I am a furniture maker. All hand crafted, exotic wood. No metal fasteners, all mortice and tenon or similar interlocking, hand crafted joinery.

It has no bearing on my lack of or choice of faith.
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:19   #29
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
VERY VERY COOL JOB! Ever work with John Williams?
Many times. He would come and conduct the orchestra for a week's worth of subscription concerts, usually 4 concerts, all of his music. He recorded the score to the movie "Lincoln" with the symphony last year.


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Old 01-13-2013, 22:24   #30
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Originally Posted by elsielover View Post
Many times. He would come and conduct the orchestra for a week's worth of subscription concerts, usually 4 concerts, all of his music. He recorded the score to the movie "Lincoln" with the symphony last year.


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I'm so jealous of your job. How old were you when you began working with the Viola? I am musically inclined and often wondered where I might have wound up had I been put in serious training when I was little. So you played in the "Lincoln" score? Can't wait to hear it.
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:27   #31
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Physician Assistant for the last 17 years, Pharmacy tech for 10 before that.
Are you an MD? DMD? PhD?
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:30   #32
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Physician Assistant for the last 17 years, Pharmacy tech for 10 before that. My first 20 years spent in the military, in a lot of different places among a lot of different cultures.

My personal opinion on what I have seen, is that people can be extremely good and selfless beyond comprehension, and bad and selfish to the same extent. I've said it often, but there are heroes and zero's in every group.

The sum total of my experiences lead me to believe there might be, or at least have been a deity at some time, and the nature or identity of that deity is unknown to me, if they exist, or existed. It's just about equally possible that none has ever existed. Oh well.


But, whether or not there is or is not, or has ever been a deity. It's still never too hard to do the right thing.

Currently I work in an internal medicine sub-specialty. I get to say I fight cancer every day, and mean it.
Regards to the bold, well said.

And as a cancer survivor, thanks. I owe my life to hard working medical professionals like yourself. Any disagreements aside, keep up the good work!



I work as a land surveyor. The job has never affected how I view religion and my disbelief in a god or gods.

The people I have worked with through the years though have had many different views. I've worked with Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Atheist, and Agnostics. I've had some spirited debates, and some get angry, or just don't feel like talking about it.

One party chief who I honestly hold in high regards, and I am still in contact with despite not working with him in five years is a uber Christian. Oh boy did we have some debates while working. Stand up guy all around.

Same with the Muslim party chief I worked with for a couple of years. Never really got into any theological debates, mostly economics. Another cool guy though.

My last few years I worked as a construction surveyor I worked with a Atheist party chief. I'd say he influenced me the most. I was already an Atheist he reenforced it.

He was a Huey pilot in Vietnam, coolest person I've ever known. Taught me everything I know when it comes to surveying. Which I ended up having to teach back to him after his stroke. RIP Tom.





I think CavDoc is right, there are good and bad. Character is what matters. Not faith, religion or government.
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:36   #33
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I'm so jealous of your job. How old were you when you began working with the Viola? I am musically inclined and often wondered where I might have wound up had I been put in serious training when I was little. So you played in the "Lincoln" score? Can't wait to hear it.
I started when I was 9 or 10. To achieve a high level, like in everything, you have to put in a lot of time. In college and graduate school 8 hours a day practicing wasn't unusual. While the competition for jobs was and is fierce, seeking perfection because the music deserved it was the goal. I retired from the symphony 3 years ago so I'm not on that soundtrack. Others though, many classical albums (32 Grammies), a lot of radio/tv commercials, and pop records including a cut on a Smashing Pumpkins album which forever cemented my relationship with my daughter!


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Old 01-13-2013, 22:42   #34
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including a cut on a Smashing Pumpkins album which forever cemented my relationship with my daughter!
WHICH ONE?! I am a huge fan. I just took my chick to see them in VA on Dec 9th. Been a fan since the early 90's.

You are now officially the coolest person on this forum LOL. Was it Disarm or Tonight Tonight or something?
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Old 01-13-2013, 23:01   #35
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I've been a high school history teacher for 5 years now and also used to teach an AP course on world religions, but through a more anthropological and art history approach.

Prior to this I was a wall street broker and left for ethical reasons, not so much religious reasons. I wanted to make a difference.

I have a double major in archaeology and biological anthropology and a masters in education, both from ivy league schools.

Based on what I see in school and the stories of my students, my beliefs are challenged every day. Some days I can't believe a God could exist that could be so cruel, and other days I see his plan.

I actually wind up discussing religion quite a bit with my students - we just finished a unit on the reformation & counter reformation and it always gets us discussing if God was created by man as a way to control... God comes up a lot when I also do a unit on genocide - even my most devout students are always challenged. I refuse to provide my opinion and let them come to their own conclusions. I brought a holocaust survivor to speak with my students last year and the discussion on God was very intense and emotional. Good stuff.

Funny enough, I have never been religious really, just spiritual, but now that I will be a father for the first time, the notion is nagging me a bit...
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:33   #36
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Are you an MD? DMD? PhD?
PA-C.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/best-jobs/20...pshots/16.html
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:58   #37
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So you aren't an actual Doctor?
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:42   #38
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In and around IT for the last 21 years. Software Engineer, DBA, Project Manger, etc. Currently adding an MBA to my skillset. The neat thing about IT is that you get exposure to so many different sectors (military, financial, healthcare, education, oil & gas etc.)

I do think the exposure to so many different sectors has given me a more well-rounded worldview than most, but I can't say it speciifcally either pushed me towards or away from religion as a whole.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:28   #39
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I'm curious to know where everyone's expertise/knowledge base comes from. Has your job affected your beliefs or have your beliefs affected your job? Give some details, guys.

I work industrial construction and am also a full time STEM student. Neither work, nor school gives me pressure to believe either way. I've had very insightful discussions with coworkers, but never felt any pressure to believe and never exerted pressure otherwise. School is full of "cool kids." I don't talk to many of them; most are only about as smart as a really smart dog.
I'm a Controller for a REIT. I don't think my faith is either shaped by my profession nor affected by it.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:33   #40
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I am a CPA. Faith doesn't really come into play in my job one way or another as far as performing my job. But I do have to keep the fact that I am a non-believer to myself as it might run off lots of my clients. I live in the south east where people still think if you don't believe that you're in league with the devil. So I have to professionally protect myself from their ignorance.

You talk to people a lot when you're a CPA. And for some reason people share all the intimate details of their lives with a CPA. For example you ask them questions to see if they truly can rightfully claim their dependent on their taxes to see if they meet the relationship, support, and residency tests and all that crap. But they'll continue on to tell you about their cousin slept with their ex-husband and he's now in rehab because he had bad run with some good meth and blah blah blah. Often they'll say something like "Pray for us cause we could sure use it" to which I just smile and say "Ok".
Interesting....You and I have a similar background.
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Old 01-14-2013, 16:56   #41
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The neat thing about IT is that you get exposure to so many different sectors (military, financial, healthcare, education, oil & gas etc.)

I do think the exposure to so many different sectors has given me a more well-rounded worldview than most, but I can't say it specifically either pushed me towards or away from religion as a whole.
I agree. I do the technical design/sales at Dell for the data center equipment. I have worked with lots of the fortune 500 companies in every sector and the government, over various time periods. It does help with being well rounded and seeing how the different groups handle things...what is important to them(solution vs price), how they do purchasing, politics involved in the purchase, etc....

While this job has not influenced my religious views at all, it was during this time that I went from being a Christian to realizing I was really an Atheist. Once I figured that out, it did finally hit me on why I enjoy this job. From a technical standpoint I deal with a lot of "this is the solution that is right for you", or "No, this will not work at all, don't try it". Then on solutions that we haven't run across before we can (like a scientist) say, "I am not sure, lets test that out in our lab and see if it works." I enjoy working with with evidence. I like being able to say Yes or No, and then throw out numbers or papers to show evidence of why it is Yes or No. I don't like guesses. No company buying millions of dollars in servers is going to accept "Have faith that this solution will work". They want evidence/proof. It wasn't until I realized that I was an Atheist, that I realized the proof thing was one of the big reasons I enjoyed this work.
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Old 01-14-2013, 17:45   #42
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Are you an MD? DMD? PhD?
None of the above. He is an ex-medic.
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Old 01-14-2013, 18:14   #43
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None of the above. He is an ex-medic.
Nope Musky, you are very wrong. I led medics in combat many times, but I was never honored to be a medic. Those guys are forking awesome heroes. If you've never seen one in action, you have no idea. Every single place those guys go to work, there has been at least one large and heavy piece of metal, or a small and very fast piece of metal that has hurt someone. There is no such thing as a safe working environment for those guys. But they know the risks, and are awesome for accepting them to help others. I was always right there beside them when it was really scary, because that IS where people like ME need to be when it's bad.

Me? I was a pharmacy tech my first several years. I spent my first 3 years on the east/west german border right in the middle of the fulda gap, in Fulda actually.

When I got to Ft. Campbell, I was heading to the hospital, and was not allowed to go to Air Assault school like all the other guys. I tried for years. Even talking my way in to a class date signed off on by a brigade CSM, but the hospital said I was too important to let go for 3 weeks, which was of course BS.

So, I simply decided that if I could not get out of the Hospital rut, that I was going to leave the Army, especially after going to Desert Storm as a Pharm Tech for a MASH unit.

So, I busted my backside going to school 15 to 20 hours a week while working 40+ hours a week for the Army on rotating shift work, many times having to pay money out of my pocket to have others pull shifts for me so I could attend classes. The going rate was about 4 times our hourly rate.

So, after a lengthy process of application and letters, and phone calls, and months and months of waiting, I found out I was accepted.

I worked very hard in school. Missed my first exam question on the seventh exam. I did very well. So did a lot of other guys and gals. Over 50% of our class graduated with honors, and all of them earned it.

We all went to combat arms units. We all knew we were heading there. Not all of the guys that went to PA school that I know are still alive. Some of them died doing what they had to do. I took my chances more often than the average guy. I never shied of going outside the wire. Where ever Soldiers were being hurt, that was where I was meant to be. I've been shot at with scuds, Multiple surface to air missiles (on the ground and in the plane), multiple types of rockets, mortars and grenades. I guess I'm lucky.

Religious Issues

We were all ordered by our Brigade CDR, as staff officers, to go outside of the wire on a convoy. That pic is from inside a "buffalo", taken by me, on a route clearance operation. We went looking for IED's that everyone else hoped to avoid. That's were the boss said people were most likely to get hurt, so that's where I went every other week.

Religious Issues
Just training, we didn't stand outside when we were playing with IED's.



I have often been asked to write a book about what I have seen, by people that have actually written books.

I have fellow PA's that have been in much tougher spots, and given much more than I have given, including their health, and in more than one case, their lives doing their job, and trying to do more than was asked of them.

So, Musky, smelly fellow or whatever, get off at the next buss stop, so I can throw you under it. You ARE NOT worth keeping on the buss.

I hate to wish this on anyone, but I really hope a couple of you guys witness as much death, destruction, and mayhem, involving those you care about, as you dismiss among those that have been there.

I really wish, with all my heart and potential soul, that you understand life as I understand it. You will cry a river if that ever happens.

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Old 01-14-2013, 18:28   #44
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So you aren't an actual Doctor?
No S#!t Sherlock, where exactly have you been for the last 7 years??

Wake up and take a look at a profile or two. Look at the insignia on the hat in the avatar, learn a little bit of jargon, but don't blame me for your negligent or willful ignorance.

All with military experience here, will tell you that the highest ranking military medical person within shouting distance is known as "Doc". Not doctor, that's different. The highest assigned medical officer within a maneuver element was referred to as the "surgeon", even if he was not a surgeon, but a PA, ER Doctor, GMO Doctor or whatever. It's the way people refer to each other in places you have never been.


Last deployment, I was the Brigade Surgeon of an Engineer Brigade in Baghdad. I wasn't a Doctor, or a Surgeon. But I practiced medicine and trauma stabilization surgery very well. I had unfortunately had a lot of experience in that & was very good at it, or fortunately, depending on your perspective.

A lot of younger guys went outside the wire to get to the wounded faster at my urging. That's a good thing, well, if you are on our side.

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Old 01-14-2013, 18:44   #45
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I find myself in the unusual position of siding with CavDoc on something. I clearly remember him freely offering that he was a PA and not an MD on several occasions. I have known some very competent PAs over the years and believe that the whole Physician Assistant / Nurse Practitioner career field is an important part to solving our current healthcare crisis. I can also confirm that even combat medics and corpsman in the military are addressed with the honorary title "doc".
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Old 01-14-2013, 18:50   #46
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I find myself in the unusual position of siding with CavDoc on something. I clearly remember him freely offering that he was a PA and not an MD on several occasions. I have known some very competent PAs over the years and believe that the whole Physician Assistant / Nurse Practitioner career field is an important part to solving our current healthcare crisis. I can also confirm that even combat medics and corpsman in the military are addressed with the honorary title "doc".
Unusually, I find myself thanking you for stating the truth. Regardless of the other disagreements we have have had, your stock has gone up a notch or two.

There is a slight glimmer of hope, that we may someday be able to disagree on some very fundamental points, and still be on the same side in the bigger picture. We'll see.
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Old 01-14-2013, 19:58   #47
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No S#!t Sherlock, where exactly have you been for the last 7 years??

Wake up and take a look at a profile or two. Look at the insignia on the hat in the avatar, learn a little bit of jargon, but don't blame me for your negligent or willful ignorance.

All with military experience here, will tell you that the highest ranking military medical person within shouting distance is known as "Doc". Not doctor, that's different. The highest assigned medical officer within a maneuver element was referred to as the "surgeon", even if he was not a surgeon, but a PA, ER Doctor, GMO Doctor or whatever. It's the way people refer to each other in places you have never been.


Last deployment, I was the Brigade Surgeon of an Engineer Brigade in Baghdad. I wasn't a Doctor, or a Surgeon. But I practiced medicine and trauma stabilization surgery very well. I had unfortunately had a lot of experience in that & was very good at it, or fortunately, depending on your perspective.

A lot of younger guys went outside the wire to get to the wounded faster at my urging. That's a good thing, well, if you are on our side.
That is just awesome.

Not your credentials (they speak for themselves), not the title you hold (that should draw respect rather than ridicule, most of us could not stomach what you and the same as you have seen), but the fact that you and others like you served with our bravest. Fighting and keeping our freedom.
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Old 01-14-2013, 20:00   #48
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None of the above. He is an ex-medic.
Am I ok with making a comment on your avatar change?

Welcome to change.
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Old 01-14-2013, 20:14   #49
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All with military experience here, will tell you that the highest ranking military medical person within shouting distance is known as "Doc". Not doctor, that's different. The highest assigned medical officer within a maneuver element was referred to as the "surgeon", even if he was not a surgeon, but a PA, ER Doctor, GMO Doctor or whatever. It's the way people refer to each other in places you have never been.
I was a peacetime Navy Airdale and even I know ^^^ that.
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Old 01-14-2013, 20:43   #50
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Am I ok with making a comment on your avatar change?

Welcome to change.
I got tired of simplistic people perseverating on the avatar rather then the content of my posts. It's a Firesign Theater album cover with pictures of Marx and Lennon. Groucho Marx and John Lennon.
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