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Old 01-21-2013, 21:15   #326
Glock36shooter
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Don't be mad just because the lottery has yet to provide you with a lifetime supply of pabst.

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I don't drink... But if I did... I'd prefer Dos Equis.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:18   #327
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I don't drink... But if I did... I'd prefer Dos Equis.
Another glimmer into your psyche....
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:21   #328
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I don't drink... But if I did... I'd prefer Dos Equis.
Buying a bottle of Dos Equis is a better investment than the lottery.

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Old 01-21-2013, 21:22   #329
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I don't smoke or do drugs either if that helps.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:37   #330
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That's unfortunate..I was going to offer to come smoke you out.....take your mind off your chances of winning the lottery.

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Old 01-21-2013, 21:38   #331
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So you know, to me it doesn't look like post 292 is saying anything like "evolution is happening, therefore deities don't exist;" perhaps you're misunderstanding something.
Yeah, I don't see it either and it was my post. I think some further clarification is in order.
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Old 01-21-2013, 23:22   #332
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Nope, but I do see a lot of people who seem to be arguing that evolution is happening, so therefore, your god does not exist, and therefore no gods exist.
Who is making that argument? Could you provide some specific examples?
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That's, of course, a very simple paraphrasing of what the argument seems to be.
Or possibly a misrepresentation.
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Old 01-21-2013, 23:30   #333
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Post 292 tap dances around the edges of it. Wasn't there a thread about religiously believing in science and how evolution cannot be true recently.
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Public acceptance of science is absolutely based on beliefs. Discoveries are made but you can only get people to act on those discoveries if they "believe" those discoveries are true. I could argue with someone all day that 5+5=10 but if they refuse to believe that because some bible verse or political pundit that they would prefer to believe says otherwise then I can't help them. Their "belief" that it does not =10 will continue to negatively affect them and anyone they can convince otherwise. It will also negatively affect plenty who do believe that if the non-believers are great enough in number and have enough clout.

So you say that you're not sure about common ancestry with apes which means that you don't fully accept the conclusions of the many whom are far more knowledgeable on the subject than you. Being convinced enough that you don't try to dissuade others from believing it is all I'm concerned about. Anything beyond that is just a matter of how much you really want to understand it.

As for the Big Band, here's video evidence,

Swing - Best of The Big Bands (1/3) - YouTube
I don't see how this post makes the argument that since evolution happens, supernatural deities can't exist. Perhaps you could either explain how it tap dances around that claim or provide a more on point example.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:03   #334
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I don't know if this is true, but I remember a story about Billy Graham and a Scientist arguing whether God created the universe, or whether the big bang created the universe. In the end, Billy Graham throws his hands in the air, and screams: OK, I give up, you win!!!! In the beginning, with a big bang, God created the heavens and the Earth.

So really, who knows. For the most part, believing what happened in the beginning, or even if there was a "beginning" is not something that factors into many decisions I'm making on an average day.
Folks who struggle with this are usually one of two groups:

1. Those who are anti-God for any myriad of reasons. Usually hubris. (Different from those who simply don't believe)

2. Christian fundamentalists who believe in a literal interpretation of biblical texts yet deny that choosing a literal interpretation is indeed CHOOSING an interpretation. These I generally regard as fools.


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Old 01-22-2013, 08:55   #335
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Life by pure chance or accident is a matter of faith...

No, it really isn't. It's recognizing statistical probability. You did see the post that pointed out how many planets there are in the known universe, right?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:06   #336
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Are you really sure about that? I mean really sure, to the point of arduous belief?

Sorry, missed this one earlier. There are lots of definitions out there:

http://atheists.org/atheism

"Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity..."

I'll give more weight to the definition coming from people who actually ARE the subject of the definition, thanks.

So, your stance is that anyone who doesn't claim to KNOW that God/gods exist(s) one way or the other are all agnostics. Is that it, or am I misunderstanding something? That atheism automatically conveys active disbelief?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:09   #337
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No, it really isn't. It's recognizing statistical probability. You did see the post that pointed out how many planets there are in the known universe, right?
It's an ego thing. People don't like the idea that their entire existence and that of everyone they've ever known was just random. People like to feel like they're special... like they have a purpose. So when they find out it was just random chance and this planet just happened to have all the right conditions and materials to form and support life they choose to not feel amazingly fortunate about that... but less important.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:19   #338
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The real sin is to give credit to a "god" for creating the earth. We are lucky to simply be here and some of us know it. Nowhere else will you find anything like earth.

The world is indeed a scary place and for many god is an outlet to escape reality. Its human nature to want more and to sit in your chair and think that this is as good as it gets isnt good enough for our minds so we wish for more and the bible delivers that.

I try not to take everyday for granted because I know that this earth is as good as it gets, every sunrise every day with my family is a special thing, enjoy life and reality and leave the magic in the book, do yourself a favor and discover what is!
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:35   #339
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No, it really isn't. It's recognizing statistical probability. You did see the post that pointed out how many planets there are in the known universe, right?
I know, really big numbers. Really big guesses too, with a lot of variances and a large margin of error too.

The possibilities are remote enough for either side to be completely sure, if they evaluate it all together. It's not a collection of just elements, but a collection of structures and data containing materials that interact remotely within a single cell, one small defect, one hole in the wrong place, one channel that pushes electrolytes in the wrong direction, and none of it works at all. And, once you got all that stuff together, making it in such a way that it could replicate itself, that's pretty remote too.

However it started, it is rather amazing. It would be cool to know for sure, but it's not necessary to have a good day today.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:38   #340
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
It's an ego thing. People don't like the idea that their entire existence and that of everyone they've ever known was just random. People like to feel like they're special... like they have a purpose. So when they find out it was just random chance and this planet just happened to have all the right conditions and materials to form and support life they choose to not feel amazingly fortunate about that... but less important.
That's one side of the coin. The other is that some people think they need to know. They guess in the other direction and then try to support their own beliefs to the exclusion of others.

That's ego too.

Why can't we just enjoy what is, and not worry about ensuring that everyone agrees with us?
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:20   #341
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I know, really big numbers. Really big guesses too, with a lot of variances and a large margin of error too.

The possibilities are remote enough for either side to be completely sure, if they evaluate it all together. It's not a collection of just elements, but a collection of structures and data containing materials that interact remotely within a single cell, one small defect, one hole in the wrong place, one channel that pushes electrolytes in the wrong direction, and none of it works at all. And, once you got all that stuff together, making it in such a way that it could replicate itself, that's pretty remote too.
So you're agreeing that really unlikely things become, effectively, more likely when you repeat the scenario billions of times, right?



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However it started, it is rather amazing. It would be cool to know for sure, but it's not necessary to have a good day today.
Absolutely agreed with all three points above.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:00   #342
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So you're agreeing that really unlikely things become, effectively, more likely when you repeat the scenario billions of times, right?





Absolutely agreed with all three points above.
Not completely. I know this is a meme, but if you put a bunch of chimpanzees in a room with a typewriter, even for a trillion years, they will not type the complete works of Shakespeare, not as long as they are chimps as we know them today, unable to really get where Cesario was coming from emotionally.

ID vs. Unaided Natural Phenomena...... Honestly, both are difficult to have faith in for me. They are very remote in their own way.

It would be neat to find another civilization on another planet that would be willing to peacefully discuss the issue and share notes, as opposed to just eating us.

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Old 01-22-2013, 17:25   #343
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Originally Posted by Montblanc View Post
The real sin is to give credit to a "god" for creating the earth. We are lucky to simply be here and some of us know it. Nowhere else will you find anything like earth.

The world is indeed a scary place and for many god is an outlet to escape reality. Its human nature to want more and to sit in your chair and think that this is as good as it gets isnt good enough for our minds so we wish for more and the bible delivers that.

I try not to take everyday for granted because I know that this earth is as good as it gets, every sunrise every day with my family is a special thing, enjoy life and reality and leave the magic in the book, do yourself a favor and discover what is!
Frankly the math disagrees with you very strongly


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Old 01-22-2013, 17:47   #344
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Frankly the math disagrees with you very strongly


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History is full of examples. Chance encounters are less likely than those with a motive, opportunity and ability.


The problem is that humans have motive to believe the way they do, and have a hard time evaluating the question without prejudice.
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Old 01-22-2013, 18:49   #345
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History is full of examples. Chance encounters are less likely than those with a motive, opportunity and ability.


The problem is that humans have motive to believe the way they do, and have a hard time evaluating the question without prejudice.
What I was saying is that mathematically there are likely to be many many earths out there.


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Old 01-22-2013, 20:52   #346
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Who is making that argument? Could you provide some specific examples?
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I know, really big numbers. Really big guesses too, with a lot of variances and a large margin of error too.

The possibilities are remote enough for either side to be completely sure, if they evaluate it all together. It's not a collection of just elements, but a collection of structures and data containing materials that interact remotely within a single cell, one small defect, one hole in the wrong place, one channel that pushes electrolytes in the wrong direction, and none of it works at all. And, once you got all that stuff together, making it in such a way that it could replicate itself, that's pretty remote too.

However it started, it is rather amazing. It would be cool to know for sure, but it's not necessary to have a good day today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
That's one side of the coin. The other is that some people think they need to know. They guess in the other direction and then try to support their own beliefs to the exclusion of others.

That's ego too.

Why can't we just enjoy what is, and not worry about ensuring that everyone agrees with us?
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Originally Posted by hooligan74 View Post
So you're agreeing that really unlikely things become, effectively, more likely when you repeat the scenario billions of times, right?





Absolutely agreed with all three points above.
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Not completely. I know this is a meme, but if you put a bunch of chimpanzees in a room with a typewriter, even for a trillion years, they will not type the complete works of Shakespeare, not as long as they are chimps as we know them today, unable to really get where Cesario was coming from emotionally.

ID vs. Unaided Natural Phenomena...... Honestly, both are difficult to have faith in for me. They are very remote in their own way.

It would be neat to find another civilization on another planet that would be willing to peacefully discuss the issue and share notes, as opposed to just eating us.

Religious Issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
History is full of examples. Chance encounters are less likely than those with a motive, opportunity and ability.


The problem is that humans have motive to believe the way they do, and have a hard time evaluating the question without prejudice.

These are the replies you've posted since my request. Should I take this to mean that the requested examples to substantiate your claim will not be forthcoming?
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Old 01-22-2013, 20:54   #347
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Frankly the math disagrees with you very strongly
I never skip a chance to post this.

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Old 01-22-2013, 21:14   #348
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Nice.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:19   #349
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These are the replies you've posted since my request. Should I take this to mean that the requested examples to substantiate your claim will not be forthcoming?
The next time I see that argument or one similar being made, I'll post a link for you.

ETA: is this one good enough?

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...88&postcount=8

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 01-23-2013 at 04:52..
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:25   #350
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I never skip a chance to post this.

Religious Issues
The odds I'm speaking of is not whether there are other planets similar to earth, or if that really necessary for life. We've found life in very inhospitable places on this planet.

Just the odds that all the structures compounds and organelles would come together and form an operating cell.

The very first cell in the universe had to have happened somehow though. I make no claim as to how that happened, but thinking about the possibilities is interesting. People that are absolutely sure they know how the first cellular life occurred are interesting too. Occasionally, once they choose sides between ID and random natural phenomena, they seem resistant to accept the other as possible.

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