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Old 01-19-2013, 16:01   #921
rustytxrx
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It has been in my safe unfired till today. I shot 8 rounds of Underwood 357 Sig 125 gr HP to set the sights.

This evening I'll be in Cool, Texas waiting for my sized pig (~100#).

The pistol is very nice. Trigger, accuracy, reocil very nice. Compensator weight and deflection made recovery quick.

The underwood 357 sig 125 gr hp is bonded. I recovered a bullet shot thru gallon jugs of a slurry of strips of news paper and water. bullet worked great. More in this and pics after I get back. BTW I have a 357 mag 125 gr bullet shot into this type slurry. they look about the same. (shot from a 4" s&w SSR)
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Old 01-19-2013, 17:31   #922
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Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
It has been in my safe unfired till today. I shot 8 rounds of Underwood 357 Sig 125 gr HP to set the sights.

This evening I'll be in Cool, Texas waiting for my sized pig (~100#).

The pistol is very nice. Trigger, accuracy, reocil very nice. Compensator weight and deflection made recovery quick.

The underwood 357 sig 125 gr hp is bonded. I recovered a bullet shot thru gallon jugs of a slurry of strips of news paper and water. bullet worked great. More in this and pics after I get back. BTW I have a 357 mag 125 gr bullet shot into this type slurry. they look about the same. (shot from a 4" s&w SSR)
Congrats on a great pistol, and hope you bag that pig tonight. The only time I went hog hunting (No. Arkansas) I sat for an hour and a half in freezing October weather without as much as a twitch in the grass. The moonshine was good though.)

I understand that Underwood uses the Speer Gold Dot six-petal .357sig Gold Dot bullet. How many jugs did that bullet penetrate in your tests?

The one and only water jug test I conducted included BVAC downloaded (1300 fps) .357sig Gold Dots that penetrated three jugs and mushroomed perfectly so I'm not surprised you had good results. Good components translate into good ammo if all else is done right.
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Old 01-19-2013, 18:57   #923
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Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post

It just hasn't made any sense to me why Glock uses a standard 18# spring for 9mm, .40S&W, and .357sig. Instinctively I feel that .40S&W and .357sig should have a heavier spring load than 18# as standard issue.
The large frame glocks 45 and 10mm use the same stock recoil spring and its about the same spring weight as the 9,40 and 357sig. Slide weight and momentum probably decide the weight of a recoil spring. Returning the slide to battery is its main purpose. I've used a heavy recoil spring(23#) in a g30 shooting 400 corbon. It was more reliable with the stock spring and put a lot more wear on the slide lock with the heavy spring.
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Old 01-20-2013, 17:44   #924
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pistol shooting is a game of billards. Shot angles are half the game and the target positions is everthing else assuming you can hit the spot. I did hit the spot or very close to it and the target was in very good position (near front leg forward, etc)

from entry to exit was about 13". bullet recovered from ground on off side about 4" deep at about 20 degree angle into soft soil bank. pig fell 10 yds away but had taken a circular route of maybe 15 to 20 yds.

From the post mortem, I got exactly the results I would have expected from the shot. pig was somewhere between 100 and 120 pounds judged by 3 guys who do this a lot.

pigs lack any mental or emotional shock value. It really takes a lot of energy to stone one. maybe a 44 mag, 454 or 500 but I don't think any defensvie semi auto rounds is going to do it from a chest shot.

BTW I had to stop in Weatherford, TX gun store to get some .357 Sig cartridges cause I left the Underwoods on my gun bench (they had 12 boxes). I shot Winchester PDX1 125 HP. No bones were hit. Recovered bullet diameter was 0.54" (widest).

This adds no useable info to the discussion really save that for a hunting round the .357 Sig ballastics are exactly what you get. Nothing magic but not bad if you can hit the spot.

Package states muzzle velocity 1350fps, 5 yd - 1332fps, 25yd - 1262fps. Shot was at 12 yds

Edit - recovered bullets was intact and lost 5grs thru wound channel and dirt.

Rusty
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Old 01-20-2013, 17:47   #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
pistol shooting is a game of billards. Shot angles are half the game and the target positions is everthing else assuming you can hit the spot. I did hit the spot or very close to it and the target was in very good position (near front leg forward, etc)

from entry to exit was about 13". bullet recovered from ground on off side about 4" deep at about 20 degree angle into soft soil bank. pig fell 10 yds away but had taken a circular route of maybe 15 to 20 yds.

From the post mortem, I got exactly the results I would have expected from the shot. pig was somewhere between 100 and 120 pounds judged by 3 guys who do this a lot.

pigs lack any mental or emotional shock value. It really takes a lot of energy to stone one. maybe a 44 mag, 454 or 500 but I don't think any defensvie semi auto rounds is going to do it from a chest shot.

BTW I had to stop in Weatherford, TX gun store to get some .357 Sig cartridges cause I left the Underwoods on my gun bench (they had 12 boxes). I shot Winchester PDX1 125 HP. No bones were hit. Recovered bullet diameter was 0.54" (widest).

This adds no useable info to the discussion really save that for a hunting round the .357 Sig ballastics are exactly what you get. Nothing magic but not bad if you can hit the spot.

Package states muzzle velocity 1350fps, 5 yd - 1332fps, 25yd - 1262fps. Shot was at 12 yds

Rusty
Interesting none the less, thanks.
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Old 01-20-2013, 18:42   #926
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It is clear to me that in the .357 Sig the Winchester PDX1 Defender is a brand that ya can take seriously. The bullet performed exactly like you would want it too. Says it exapnds into 6 uniform segments and it did. One side had hit a root in the dirt and defromed it a little so mushroom was not exactly round. First time I have shot the brand. bullet expanded 1.5 x diameter.

commet - (The gun store charged $24.99 per box (20). They assured me that was exactly what they were charging before the ammo run. )

I like the Sig 357 but my gun club has got a thing against bottle neck pistol cartridges on the steel plate range.
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Old 01-20-2013, 20:10   #927
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
Low flash powders can really help to cut down on muzzle flash. If I would shoot my outside range handloads (power pistol) at night I would probably go blind. PP is a very flashy powder in many calibers.

Jefferybehr here on GT posted some testing he did with powders at night with the .357sig but I can't find it. Some produced very little muzzle flash.
If you use any kind of light--weapon mounted or handheld--or a crimson trace laser, even the brightest muzzle flash is a non issue.
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Old 01-20-2013, 21:27   #928
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Well today I finally got to test the reliability of the Gen3 G32 barrel in my Gen4 G23.

First up was 200 rounds of WWB 125gr FMJ. As expected, the gun ran flawlessly. All rounds fed fine and ejected strong at 4-o'clock with the exception of 2 BTF (when I had gloves on). Next on the agenda was the hyped Underwood 125gr GDHP. I will admit my hopes were high with this load and I expected them to run just as well, and possibly be a new carry option. I was sorely disappointed.

I ran 50 rounds thru the gun and the second round down range was a light strike. I have 1800 rounds thru this gun (1150x .40/500x 9mm/200x .357) and I've never had a light strike or bad round. I inspected the primer and found that it was in fact a light strike because A) the round fired after a second strike, and B) the first strike's dimple was round and shallow, while the second strike was typical Glock rectangle and deep, and the round went off. There were a total of 4 subsequent light strikes throughout the 50rd box. These results are totally unacceptable in carry ammo. It's dissapointing because of 2 reasons. First, the Underwood is readily available and CHEAP in comparison to other SD loads. At around $30/50, it's the same price as Walmart WWB FMJ, and would allow for more affordable practice with the same round I'd carry. Second, the recoil really isn't that bad compared to the .40. It's hard but less flippy. I still have 100 rounds of the Underwood, which will now be limited to range use only. I will probably try some Winchester PDX-1 next, as it is the ammo I carry in my G23 and M&P Shield, G26, and G21.

Overall I felt the Gen4 G23 handled the .357 load very well, and I am sold on the Gen4 RSA helping tame recoil over the Gen3 springs. Next time I get to the range, I will be running another 200 rounds of WWB and hopefully, 20-40 rounds of PDX-1 (at $1+ per round, OUCH). But the consensus so far is: Gen3 barrels in Gen4 guns work! 500 of 9mm and 250 of .357 so far. Stay tuned!
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Old 01-20-2013, 22:00   #929
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Thats good and bad news then. I've had good results also with my Sig barrels. Sorry to hear about the Underwood ammo. Maybe a headspace issue? Do they sit farther down in the chamber than the Winchester ammo?
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:36   #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
pistol shooting is a game of billards. Shot angles are half the game and the target positions is everthing else assuming you can hit the spot. I did hit the spot or very close to it and the target was in very good position (near front leg forward, etc)

from entry to exit was about 13". bullet recovered from ground on off side about 4" deep at about 20 degree angle into soft soil bank. pig fell 10 yds away but had taken a circular route of maybe 15 to 20 yds.

From the post mortem, I got exactly the results I would have expected from the shot. pig was somewhere between 100 and 120 pounds judged by 3 guys who do this a lot.

pigs lack any mental or emotional shock value. It really takes a lot of energy to stone one. maybe a 44 mag, 454 or 500 but I don't think any defensvie semi auto rounds is going to do it from a chest shot.

BTW I had to stop in Weatherford, TX gun store to get some .357 Sig cartridges cause I left the Underwoods on my gun bench (they had 12 boxes). I shot Winchester PDX1 125 HP. No bones were hit. Recovered bullet diameter was 0.54" (widest).

This adds no useable info to the discussion really save that for a hunting round the .357 Sig ballastics are exactly what you get. Nothing magic but not bad if you can hit the spot.

Package states muzzle velocity 1350fps, 5 yd - 1332fps, 25yd - 1262fps. Shot was at 12 yds

Edit - recovered bullets was intact and lost 5grs thru wound channel and dirt.

Rusty
Thanks for sharing.
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Old 01-21-2013, 13:28   #931
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Glad you got your pig. Sorry to hear about the problems you encountered with Underwood ammo. Let them know about it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:26   #932
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I like the Sig 357 but my gun club has got a thing against bottle neck pistol cartridges on the steel plate range.
That speaks volumes IMO. There was some 100 gr. lead free 357auto being sold a while back that broke apart when it hit something hard. I'm sure those or non-bonded HP's would'nt damage the plates. Hell, a hot 155 or 165 gr. FMJ 10mm would probably do as much or more damage.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:16   #933
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The .357sig is steel plate friendly. Where I shoot the plates get hammered with anything from .22s to .44mags and larger. I hammer them with plenty of .357sig. I assure you a .44mag is harder on the steel than the .357sig.

I think his range is probably more concerned with bottle neck rifle cartridges than any pistol cartridges.

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Old 01-23-2013, 12:31   #934
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"Originally Posted by dkfCaliber Corner
Low flash powders can really help to cut down on muzzle flash. If I would shoot my outside range handloads (power pistol) at night I would probably go blind. PP is a very flashy powder in many calibers.

Jefferybehr here on GT posted some testing he did with powders at night with the .357sig but I can't find it. Some produced very little muzzle flash."

Perhaps the reason you couldn't find it was that you were looking for the wrong 'jeffreybehr'.

Here are the results of that research.
http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:35   #935
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If you use any kind of light--weapon mounted or handheld--or a crimson trace laser, even the brightest muzzle flash is a non issue.
I disagree with that. I believe, but don't know, that bright MF will still temporarily reduce vision.

Since there are lots of low-flash powders that work well, especially HS-6, my fave--as in 'one and only'--in 357SIG, why use a hi-flash powder in what might become a low-light situation?
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Old 01-23-2013, 15:46   #936
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I disagree with that. I believe, but don't know, that bright MF will still temporarily reduce vision.

Since there are lots of low-flash powders that work well, especially HS-6, my fave--as in 'one and only'--in 357SIG, why use a hi-flash powder in what might become a low-light situation?
Try it Jeffrey, remember my caveat is a light and or laser. I tried some Rem UMC which is about as flashy as you can get last friday.....no problem. Sure, I will use lower flash loads but my point is too much emphasis is placed on muzzle flash when it comes to 357 sig. It is more of a myth than anything else. In my opinion, not enough shooting is getting done at night if MF is a deciding factor for some on the 357 sig.
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Old 01-24-2013, 18:59   #937
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Try it Jeffrey, remember my caveat is a light and or laser. I tried some Rem UMC which is about as flashy as you can get last friday.....no problem. Sure, I will use lower flash loads but my point is too much emphasis is placed on muzzle flash when it comes to 357 sig. It is more of a myth than anything else. In my opinion, not enough shooting is getting done at night if MF is a deciding factor for some on the 357 sig.
Is Fed flashy?
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