[Atomic Punk]

i hope it passes. every gun owner should want to improve skills, and practice more often, but it should be up to them, not laws that force it.

i am far more afraid of drivers in vehicles than under trained gun owners. drive around any city, the stupid abounds.

[B.Reid]

Originally Posted by tnedator

I'm a big 2nd amendment supporter and favor almost no limits, but I do feel that most people who carry concealed are under trained and am torn. There is part of me that feels that there should be substantially more training and more stringent shooting/qualifying before a person should be allowed to carry concealed.

Do you think you should have training to exercise your other rights? Get a clue. The right to keep and bear = own and carry.

[Redheadhunter21]

Everyone should have the right to bear arms....that said I would be ok with open carry as the only means without a permit and having to qualify to conceal carry which would allow carry in any place that is still off limits as of now. Price point should be bare minimum to cover costs.


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[bear62]

Originally Posted by tnedator

Good question. In the last couple years, AR expanded their reciprocity, so I haven't even bothered to renew my out of state Utah, which expired late last year.

Would seem like Utah reciprocity would go away, or possibly honor reciprocity with people still hold a non-expired Utah CCL. It will be interesting to see how that pans out.

ftnedator, you guys (that is AR) are doing something right. I just checked your reciprocity and it is fantastic. My non-resident UT gives me Washington and Ohio, which on occasion I need. My resident CO permit does not cover those states.

[IndyGunFreak]

Originally Posted by HerrGlock

Tell you what, there are at least 19 states that require zero shooting test prior to issuing a CCW permit.
There are only slightly fewer states that require ZERO training at all (WA, AL, PA, DE, come to mind immediately) and more than that where a hunting safety course is all that is required before issuing a CCW permit.

If you can prove, by actual numbers from the state sites, that the states that require training have fewer bad shootings and/or fewer innocents shot, you may have a point.

Hell, I challenge you to tell which states require what kind or lack of training strictly by bad and/or illegal use of firearms by CCW holders.

I'm betting you've never really looked into it that far, you're just going on what you believe and feel is true. Problem is, your beliefs and feelings have no basis in reality. I'm serious, look it up for yourself and see if you can show anyone that CCW holders in any state have so many bad shoots that there is a good argument for more training required.

EXACTLY!

Indiana has had concealed carry for longer than most of the 50 states, no training, no classes.. and frankly, it's just not really an issue that even makes a blip on the news. I remember a few years ago a guy dropped a "derringer" in a restaurant and it went off, and hit him in the hip.

Been a while since I've read about a CCW'er having an ND.

[IndyGunFreak]

Originally Posted by tnedator

First, I made it very clear this is the way I "feel" because I and you and every gun owner has seen other gun owners that just make us cringe with their lack of safety, knowledge, etc.

I've seen way more newspaper articles, editorials, and posts on DU that make me cringe with disbelief at someone's lack of knowledge... than I have uninformed gun owners.

I don't advocate permits for free speech.

[Atomic Punk]

for all the other lib crazyness around. wa state only want some money before you get a permit. only $55.25.

[Batesmotel]

Originally Posted by ca survivor

and with out a permit, how can a LEO differentiate for a law abiding citizen and a criminal with a gun?

Criminals carry anyway. The law just makes honest people jump through hoops. Say a cop pulls someone over, he is going to find out if they have a record or not regardless of if they show him a permit or not.

[BSG62]

Originally Posted by domin8ss

First paragraph true. Not touching the second. Third is false. 6 rounds at 10 feet. I took the class on 7/3/12 in Salt Lake.

Utah does not, by law, require live fire. This doesn't mean that instructors can't include live fire as part of their curriculum.

[harrygunner]

Great. Hope it passes.

Personal responsibility and accountability are key.

To speak, one should learn to speak well.
To vote, one should research candidates and vote responsibly.
For self defense, one should seek training.

But, no natural right should have conditions on them. The more we replace individual accountability with government requirements, the weaker we become.

[Batesmotel]

Originally Posted by BSG62

Utah does not, by law, require live fire. This doesn't mean that instructors can't include live fire as part of their curriculum.

This is correct. Many instructors include live fire at their own discretion. It is not required by law. The Utah class just covers the legalities of having a permit. I even know a blind man with one.

[RGbiker]

I hope Constitutional Carry passes in Utah, to come in line with Arizona.

[ChiTownPicaro]

Originally Posted by tnedator

I'm a big 2nd amendment supporter and favor almost no limits, but I do feel that most people who carry concealed are under trained and am torn. There is part of me that feels that there should be substantially more training and more stringent shooting/qualifying before a person should be allowed to carry concealed.

I am sorry but that is suggesting that we ask the government for permission slips to exercise our rights. THe moment when we decided that a permit system would need to be in place is when we decided that the 2nd Amendment is not truly a natural right. And to that I quote the great Samuel Adams, as a permit system is nothing but a tax on our rights.

Originally said by Samuel Adams:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

[The Fed]

More than once I've seen idiots at a range almost shoot others. Not the kind I would want to carry a gun without formal training. These are the type of morons who would pull it out to show someone and not unload it first.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by bear62

ftnedator, you guys (that is AR) are doing something right. I just checked your reciprocity and it is fantastic. My non-resident UT gives me Washington and Ohio, which on occasion I need. My resident CO permit does not cover those states.

Yea, a few years back our reciprocal states ballooned. It's handy.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

[SJ 40]

Originally Posted by Jdog

I can't wait
this is what every state in the nation should do

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=757...cid=featured-3

It's been working day in and out here in Vermont since 1791,that's 222 years.
Vermont has never known any other form of carry. What is now known as Constitutional carry was once refereed to as Vermont Style carry,I'm glad other states are adopting Constitutional carry. SJ 40

[COLDSTEEL165]

Nice Utah has a large population of the Mormon Faith right.?

[Taphius]

Originally Posted by tnedator

I'm a big 2nd amendment supporter and favor almost no limits, but I do feel that most people who carry concealed are under trained and am torn. There is part of me that feels that there should be substantially more training and more stringent shooting/qualifying before a person should be allowed to carry concealed.

I would say the same thing about the English language and writing on the internet.

[SJ 40]

Originally Posted by COLDSTEEL165

Nice Utah has a large population of the Mormon Faith right.?

Having lived in Pleasant Groove Utah for a few years I can answer with a Yes.
SJ 40

[TheNinja]

Originally Posted by Jdog

Currently you don't have to do any sort of shooting test to get your Utah CCW.

Yep. That's true. Just got my Utah CCW permit in the mail. Filled out the paperwork, sent it in with the $$$, two months later, I have it in hand. I live in Commiefornia.