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Old 01-30-2013, 07:12   #26
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.
Nice philosophy you have there. Mind if I apply it to your thoughts that RI is overrun with atheists?
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:28   #27
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How many times must they tell you - Atheism is NOT a religion so therefore they do not need their own section.

Believe of don't, I am just told to go and share the Good News. I was in the red and Jesus was in the black. He trade his account for mine and paid the overdraft penalty. Eventually, someone pays for being overdrawn.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:28   #28
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Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
Yes you are. People want to discuss religion and you attack the very core of the subject as non existent.
So what gives religion some special status as non-debatable?

Either the ideas one puts out there are able to withstand criticism or they aren't.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:31   #29
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How many times must they tell you - Atheism is NOT a religion so therefore they do not need their own section.

Believe of don't, I am just told to go and share the Good News. I was in the red and Jesus was in the black. He trade his account for mine and paid the overdraft penalty. Eventually, someone pays for being overdrawn.
Do you remember signing the contract because I don't?
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:40   #30
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Nice philosophy you have there. Mind if I apply it to your thoughts that RI is overrun with atheists?
Believe it or not, I don't run round to atheist sites making fun of their beliefs just because they can't be proven. Yet, you get some kind of satisfaction out of doing it here.

All I'm asking is that you stay out of discussions about the biblical topics. You can have all the atheist topics you want.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:45   #31
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YOU ARE SO RIGHT!

Quite frankly I've thought for awhile, now, that a forum for devil worshippers might be a perfect on-line, 'playpen' for the majority of these badly confused, and (I think) often deliberately misleading fellows.

They remind me of, 'party crashers'. The unfailing impression I get from much of the correspondence I've had with them is that if they have no personal sense of joy within themselves then they, sure as Hell, don't want you or me to have any hope in our hearts - either!

I mean, would you or I incessantly break-in, or interrupt a forum full of devil worshipers in order to spew invectives, or add your own two, 'miserable cents'? Believe me, I have no desire, whatsoever, to remind any of these people that they're, all, going to Hell. (Let 'um go where they will!)



The Lord God - speaking through the Prophet Moses in the 30th chapter of Deuteronomy - grants all men the right to choose either a good, or an evil outcome for their own lives. God will only hold out His Hand to fallen mankind for only a little while longer. The time for divine mercy is rapidly passing.

OK, if the other guy insists upon sticking his fingers in his ears, and closing his eyes to the numerous universal proofs-of-God which exist all around us, then, I say, 'Ignorance is bliss!' What the Hell; just let 'um go! I feel no compelling desire, or need, to interrupt each and every conversation these fellows engage in so that they might be exposed to The Truth. (What for? It ain't in them - Yes!)

(I, often, don't even bother to reply to these people because, as a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, I already know that Christ, Himself, is going to reply to them for me!)

In fact I was musing to myself, this morning, that many of these increasingly intrusive and exceedingly verbose so-called, 'atheists' might, indeed, not believe in God, and strongly prefer to ignore Him. However, I'll just bet that many of these very same people, perversely, believe in the existence of evil, and covet Satan the devil in their hearts.

(They would have to because on the one hand Sacred Scripture states, 'The fool hath said in his heart: 'There is no God.' On the other hand Christ, also, said, 'He who is not for Me is against Me.'

Consequently, I'm just as happy to let any, or all, of these foolish and genuinely hopeless people go their own way. I'm a good Christian; I'm a good gunman; but I'm, also, a largely indifferent missionary. I might pull a drowning man out of the water; but, if he jumps right back in again, hey, he's on his own. (We're, all, 'big boys' here - Right!)

I just wanted to say that when posts like this are floating around and Doc feels compelled to only razz the atheists for what they think they know...

Priceless.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:46   #32
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
OK. Here is the problem with that accusation.

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

I don't want to hear it.
And frankly, I have about as much faith in "science's" understanding of creation as I do in the Easter Bunny laying chocolate eggs. You don't believe in God. Fine. Your life.

Now stay out of my discussions about the Bible. If I want your opinion of how everything in existence sprang out of nothing and evolved into a controlled order from pure chaos all on it's own, I'll ask you.
That's very narrow-minded of you. That's like saying that since Democrats don't like guns and don't want to hear about them you shouldn't be allowed to express your views when they spew their vitriol? Perhaps even try to convince them otherwise? What makes you think religion and creationism are any different than guns?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:05   #33
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Believe it or not, I don't run round to atheist sites making fun of their beliefs just because they can't be proven. Yet, you get some kind of satisfaction out of doing it here.

All I'm asking is that you stay out of discussions about the biblical topics. You can have all the atheist topics you want.

I have a better idea. If your faith is so strong and what you believe so infallible then how about you show us how superior those ideas are by standing up and defending them whenever the opposition arises instead of crying for censorship to solve your problem for you?

That's what I do...
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:09   #34
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Originally Posted by The Fed View Post

That's very narrow-minded of you. That's like saying that since Democrats don't like guns and don't want to hear about them you shouldn't be allowed to express your views when they spew their vitriol? Perhaps even try to convince them otherwise? What makes you think religion and creationism are any different than guns?
No, it's like two gun lovers discussing the .45 vs 9mm debate and an anti-gunner butts in with some stupid ass anti-gun remark.

The fact that atheists even think they should be included in a religious discussion is what's ridiculous.

Atheism is NOT a religion and it has NO place in a religious issues forum.

It's "religious" issues, what don't you people understand about that?

..

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Old 01-30-2013, 08:17   #35
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Here's a question for the religious - WHICH religion is the one true religion? I'm betting ONLY the one YOU adhere to. Don't you believe followers of every other religion are non-believers? I'm sure you do. Catholics hate Jews because they don't believe that Christ is the messiah. They hate Presbyterians because they don't believe in the virgin Mary. They probably would hate The Salvation Army if they knew it was a religion. And I guess they embrace career criminals just because they're Catholic?

Many people pray on their own. Because they don't tithe are they less of a believer? And how many of you Catholics go to your church to attend every service THEY want you to? Volunteer for their many projects? How many of you church-goers tithe the full 10% they expect? How many of you send your kids to church or other religious schools and pay their high tuition's? I submit very few on here.

Don't get me wrong. Religion is the only thing, other than the laws and threat of prosecution that keeps some people in line. But I think you're a hypocrite just because you don't like someone who disagrees with your view of the world. Why should you care if I express my views? I bet if I researched anyone's comments about their interpretations of bible passages there are plenty of scholars who will say it means something else. So do you get mad at them too?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:22   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Every single thread on here lately is invaded by atheists. It's ridiculous. Look at the last dozen or so threads.

It's damned annoying.

I agree with your read on the current condition of RI. Christians come here to discuss religion and atheists come here to argue with them.

Thing is I don't think the atheists want to stay in their own forum they want to argue with those that disagree with them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:27   #37
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
No, it's like two gun lovers discussing the .45 vs 9mm debate and an anti-gunner butts in with some stupid ass anti-gun remark.

The fact that atheists even think they should be included in a religious discussion is what's ridiculous.

Atheism is NOT a religion and it has NO place in a religious issues forum.

It's "religious" issues, what don't you people understand about that?

..
So the "gun" is what? Christ? God? If I were Jewish and believed in God (just not YOUR God) and posted on a "religious" thread about a "bible" passage about Christ that a poster is dead wrong because Christ is not some kind of miracle man in the Jewish religion, then what? I'm not religious?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:33   #38
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
No, it's like two gun lovers discussing the .45 vs 9mm debate and an anti-gunner butts in with some stupid ass anti-gun remark.

The fact that atheists even think they should be included in a religious discussion is what's ridiculous.

Atheism is NOT a religion and it has NO place in a religious issues forum.

It's "religious" issues, what don't you people understand about that?

..
Actually, a better analogy would be two gun lovers discussing phasers v laser pistols and another gun lover jumping in and asking them why they're discussing fantasy weapons instead of real ones, like .45's and 9mm's.

And... the fact that you think Atheists should be excluded from religious discussions is ridiculous. Of course, I understand that anyone that disagrees with you should be excluded. Atheists are just the target at this particular time.

You're correct in saying Atheism is not a religion, but since this isn't a religious forum, (its a religious ISSUES forum) you are incorrect in deciding we should be excluded.

And I understand "religious issues" perfectly, I have lotsa "issues" with "religion". What a perfect place for me!!

If you'd like a forum that discourages differing opinions and encourages homogenous group think I'm sure their out there. Most of us stay out the Theist to Theist conversations (especially when ya'll fight like cats and dogs over the "finer points" of dogma), unless someone says something so outrageous that it cannot be left unchallenged.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:39   #39
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Can you point to a single one of these 'universal proofs' so that I can see them? Has anyone tested and verified them?

I think the big misconception is that we non-believers want religion to be false. My wants and desires are completely irrelevant in the face of evidence. Evidence trumps my wishes 100% of the time.

I never close my ears or eyes. I am open to everything out there, as long as it is true. I want to know the truth, that is all. I don't care what the truth actually is, I just want to know it, and I want to see the evidence that backs it up. I just can't base my life and my entire existence on something with no evidence.
Don't you know that you cannot, 'see' what you heart is, either, unable or unwilling to consider.

'For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools ....... ' (Romans 1:20-22)

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This statement would be believable coming from just about anybody else on the forum. You appear to delight, more than anybody else, in telling non-Christians that they are destined for hell. Not only that, you point out that God laughs about what He is going to do to the wicked as should the righteous.
Look who's talking about being believable! Stop trying to figure me out, or to ascribe YOUR OWN MOTIVATIONS to me. You don't have what it takes to understand someone like me. You only think that you do. Any intellectual assertions I've made have been referenced to, and supported by Sacred Scripture. You on the other hand are, as usual, merely vituperating and, 'flying by the seat of your pants'.

(Gee, I wonder where you're going to land; or, for the matter, how hard?)
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:41   #40
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I agree with your read on the current condition of RI. Christians come here to discuss religion and atheists come here to argue with them.

Thing is I don't think the atheists want to stay in their own forum they want to argue with those that disagree with them.
I'd say there's a fair amount of Christians that come here to argue, at least plenty of them seem to show up in threads started by Atheists.

An interesting thought came to me while reading your post. Since you specify "Christians" as the group that comes here to discuss religion, I wonder what the general attitude would be if a rabidly religious group of Islamist invaded your territory........?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:46   #41
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...
Now stay out of my discussions about the Bible.
...
I will do my best to remember to stay out of threads in GTRI that you start.
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...
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:50   #42
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atheist sites
THIS IS NOT A BELIEVERS ONLY FORM! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL!

Quote:
All I'm asking is that you stay out of discussions about the biblical topics. You can have all the atheist topics you want.
You Theists are going to have a hard time living in this new century. Non-believers are going to keep being more vocal. And our numbers are going to keep growing. Your religion is not under attack... it's dying. The writing is on the wall and you people just don't wanna see it. I don't want to silence you. I simply want your religion to die out from lack of supporter on its own. But you guys just want anyone that disagrees censored or silenced. Even if we were separated here.... you aren't going to silence us in the real world. You might as well learn to get used to being on the losing end of the situation.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:53   #43
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Do you remember signing the contract because I don't?
Of course you don't cuz you are an atheist. You are your own man unencumbered by dogma. In fact you are so wise, that you come here to show us how foolish we are. You must really care.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:54   #44
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I don't necessarily mind athiests posting in a Religious Issues forum -- they are religious issues they generally bring up.
If we claim to believe (as I do) we understand that there are various spritiual gifts - teaching, leading, discerning of spirits, etc. Each believer receives one of the gifts due to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We're called to do something specific for the body in line with our gifts. However, every believer is called to be an apologist:
1 Peter 3:15 - But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect ...
So my fellow Christians, are you prepared to give an answer with gentleness and respect? If not, it's time to check yourself. Now, I admit that this is hard work. Some of the non-theist posters present interesting arguments; defend your position or abdicate the field. Others present statements that seem to be designed only to inflame the believer. Answer with gentleness and respect. While I don't know who will choose salvation and who won't, I'm fairly certain that responding in kind to this sort of comment won't change anyone's mind. For example, I've had many conversations with non-believers, and for some, I don't know if I influenced them postively. I can however specifically recall conservations when I disregarded the "gentleness and respect" part of what I quoted before, and I'm farily certain that I drove them away from Christianity, possibly permanently. That's my personal challenge. My first inclination is not to speak with gentleness and respect (which is another reason I post infrequently here), and I have to stop, ask for grace, and then respond or shut up if I can't. From where I stand, it doesn't matter if the other side doesn't respond with gentleness and respect; they aren't called to do so, we are.
One area that Christians and churches fail miserably at is being able to explain their postion and investigate the other side's claims. That's a partial reason why I turned my back to the faith for many years; another reason is that I didn't want to be accountable for my actions. Only when I started investigating the claims of Judaism and Christianity with the goal of refuting them once and for all did I come to belief. In that respect, I'm an evidentialist, but that can only took me so far. Eventually I had to weigh the incomplete evidence and make a decision. Prior to that, I approached life from the postion that there could not be a God, and that caused a bias when considering the evidence.
My recommendation to my Christian brothers and sisters would be to learn some apologetics - I tend to read those who were not Christians, but came to it such as Ravi Zacharias (former Hindu; great podcasts), CS Lewis (athiest; especially Mere Christianity), J. Warner Wallace (a cold-case homicide detective whose professional career is gathering evidence to investigate an event in which there are few, if any eyewitnesses still around -- he was a staunch athiest until he started investigating the authenticity of the Bible) from pleaseconvinceme.com are places to start. Also read the other side -- Dawkins, Ehrman, Flew (before he changed sides) to name a few ; understand their reasoning and arguments, and work to refute them. Of course, you may come to doubt your faith, or you may come out stronger. If you believe (as I do), then you'll come out stronger. If there's gaps in why you believe, and you can't reconcile them, you may turn away - that's a risk you'll have to take. One thing I've come to realize is that there are many Christians who are so for no other reason than they were raised that way, but never did the dirty work of investigating why they believe what they believe. God never called us to suspend reason and critical thinking -- the verse "Love the Lord your God with all your heart .... all your mind.." isn't in there accidently. I'm not afraid to look at the other side - I have and made up my mind. I encourage you to do the same.

This forum presents an opportunity to explain why you believe what you believe. Will you be subjected to ridicule? Yep. We'll be hated for our beliefs, deal with it with gentleness and respect. I think we need less million dollar evangelists, and more one dollar apologists (to paraphrase Wallace in his podcasts). That's what you'll get from me -- one-dollar apologetics (or less, you get what you pay for!)

So to sum up, to the Christians (since this is less a religious issues forum and more a Christian issues forum), take the opportunity to explain with gentleness and respect and be what you're called to be. Some of us are guilty of not doing so. Search your heart, you'll know who you are. One bit of advice to my Christian brothers and sisters -- consider if what you're about to post serves as a good example of what we believe. If not, I'd hope you'd be convicted to revise it or keep quiet. Attacks and drive by scripture quoting won't change anyone's mind, and probably serve to reinforce the negative stereotype of Christians. Check Proverbs 20:3, 29:11 & 29:20.
To the non-believers, I ask for respect. Topics brought up here are open for debate, that's not an issue. However, from my perspective, many of the comments aren't doing anything to convince me that your position has more merit, and in fact tend to reinforce several of the scriptures to me. If your goal in the debate is to change minds then you're failing. If your goal is drive-by posting then you're succeding. The previous comment doesn't include every non-theist that posts here; several have intelligent, respectful, thoughtful comments that require me to think and reconcile the conflict. I appreciate it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:56   #45
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I'd say there's a fair amount of Christians that come here to argue, at least plenty of them seem to show up in threads started by Atheists.

An interesting thought came to me while reading your post. Since you specify "Christians" as the group that comes here to discuss religion, I wonder what the general attitude would be if a rabidly religious group of Islamist invaded your territory........?
Remember Akil? They ran him right out of town.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:59   #46
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This thread effectively illustrates the inevitable problem with being convinced that you have the one and only truth and that this truth applies to everyone. Sooner or later it brings people to the conclusion that they shouldn't be allowed to disagree with you.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:04   #47
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I just wanted to say that when posts like this are floating around and Doc feels compelled to only razz the atheists for what they think they know...

Priceless.
He'll be along shortly to claim that he rarely (if ever) encounters theists being unreasonable and/or claiming infallible knowledge.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:17   #48
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Remember Akil? They ran him right out of town.
I remember him from a few posts I read, I figured Snow "I really hate Islam" Bird was the one who ran him off.

I'm more or less wondering what Theists think if there were to be a bunch of folks in here preaching up ol'Moe Hammad and telling all the Christians they were infidels who were gonna serve them in the after life....Would there be a thread titled "May We Please Have an Islam Forum?"
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:20   #49
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I can't believe I would ever say this but I agree with Brasso on this one.

I used to enjoy the forum and have meaningful discussions while both sharing my faith and learning about the finer points of others. I stopped taking this forum seriously some time ago and really don't post here all that often anymore. One can only talk about evolution so much.

It's a lot like JBnTX said.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:29   #50
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OK. Here is the problem with that accusation.

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

I don't want to hear it. And frankly, I have about as much faith in "science's" understanding of creation as I do in the Easter Bunny laying chocolate eggs. You don't believe in God. Fine. Your life.

Now stay out of my discussions about the Bible. If I want your opinion of how everything in existence sprang out of nothing and evlolved into a controlled order from pure chaos all on it's own, I'll ask you.
Methinks you've misunderstood the idea and intent behind the creation of a *discussion* forum...

If certain posters annoy you, put them on your ignore list. Easy, peasy.

I'm an atheist and I certainly don't begrudge anyone their faith - so long as they don't try to impose it on me or proselytize to me.

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