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Old 01-30-2013, 09:45   #51
Vic Hays
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Umm, I've read, started and/or participated here in threads that challenged the biblical account of creation and life based on macro and micro biology, cosmology, physics, philosophy and even its own contradictory scripture. That's not trolling, that is making a rational argument. Sorry your worldview doesn't hold up to critical examination.

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The only problem is that the basic premise of your worldview is that everything supernatural must be discounted. Therefore, any faith is groundless and there is no rational argument that can be seriously considered. This is not discussion on your part. It is warfare against anything that does not agree with your world view.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:54   #52
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I agree with Brasso, atheists are here only to provoke, attack, and troll.They need a seperate section to discuss their beliefs in.


I am very dissapointed the the admins to this section have not stepped in and addressed these issues.


I pray it will happen soon.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:57   #53
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I agree with Brasso, atheists are here only to provoke, attack, and troll.They need a seperate section to discuss their beliefs in.


I am very dissapointed the the admins to this section have not stepped in and addressed these issues.


I pray it will happen soon.
It probly will. Since so many of you cannot seem to handle dissent.

Although the "I'm gonna take my ball and go home" attitude may not work out for you quite as well as you might think.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:13   #54
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Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
The only problem is that the basic premise of your worldview is that everything supernatural must be discounted. Therefore, any faith is groundless and there is no rational argument that can be seriously considered. This is not discussion on your part. It is warfare against anything that does not agree with your world view.
There is a strong inductive argument to be made rejecting the supernatural. I don't agree that Gecko's written proof can be applied to God/s, but as with any inductive argument the success lies in being able to convince the reader of your conclusion.

Can you cite any specific phenomenon where a supernatural explanation has been shown to be correct?
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:17   #55
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OK. Here is the problem with that accusation.

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

I don't want to hear it. And frankly, I have about as much faith in "science's" understanding of creation as I do in the Easter Bunny laying chocolate eggs. You don't believe in God. Fine. Your life.

Now stay out of my discussions about the Bible. If I want your opinion of how everything in existence sprang out of nothing and evlolved into a controlled order from pure chaos all on it's own, I'll ask you.
Luckily no one cares what you think either. This forum does not belong to you. It is not yours to dictate what happens and who can post in what. You don't like the diversity of responses you get when you post here? Don't post here. That is what power you have. The power to govern yourself. You religious people are going to have to learn (Probably the hard way) that you can't silence people that disagree with you just because you feel attacked when your beliefs are shown to not be grounded in reality. If you don't like that view point I suggest you crawl under your bed and hide away from the rest of the world. You don't get to demand that some protective bubble be maintained around you so that you can remain in La La Land unchallenged.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:27   #56
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Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
The only problem is that the basic premise of your worldview is that everything supernatural must be discounted. Therefore, any faith is groundless and there is no rational argument that can be seriously considered. This is not discussion on your part. It is warfare against anything that does not agree with your world view.
No one is waging war on you. Stop playing such a victim. You guys (Believers) are a majority in this nation. Yet you act like everyone is out to get you. understand this is how sensitive you people are. That anyone that disagrees with you is waging war against you. Poor you... 17% of the nation is waging war on you. But to your point about the supernatural... has anything supernatural in the history of the world ever been proven or evidenced? Ever? Anything? Why should it be given equal consideration just because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy. No one is telling you what to believe. You're angry because you can illustrate it as true. That's what we represent to you people... you inability to reconcile what you believe with reality. It makes you angry that we remind you of this. And so you just want us gone. You don't want discussion, or debate... you just want your view held over top of everyone else's.

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I agree with Brasso, atheists are here only to provoke, attack, and troll.They need a seperate section to discuss their beliefs in.


I am very dissapointed the the admins to this section have not stepped in and addressed these issues.


I pray it will happen soon.
The most fighting in here in the last month was stirred up by an Agnostic. This is not a believers only forum. I imagine our options are love this forum or leave it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:24   #57
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You religious people are going to have to learn (Probably the hard way) that you can't silence people that disagree with you just because you feel attacked when your beliefs are shown to not be grounded in reality.
What do you mean by "the hard way"?
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:37   #58
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What do you mean by "the hard way"?
Not what most evangelicals would like it to mean such that they can live out their little tribulation doomsday fantasy.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:41   #59
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What do you mean by "the hard way"?
Through multiple disappointments that people aren't going to coddle them or baby them just because they don't like people illustrating the flaws, contradictions, and inequities in their belief system.

The easy thing to do would be to just accept that people aren't going to agree and learn to deal with it. But instead many of the religious just want those that disagree silenced. As Geko said, many believers feel that people just simply shouldn't be allowed to disagree openly because it's some kind of imagined assault on their faith.

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:48   #60
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I just wanted to say that when posts like this are floating around and Doc feels compelled to only razz the atheists for what they think they know...

Priceless.
GH, if you'll search, every theist who has gotten on my case has been engaged by me with the same level of politeness they show me. I'm an equal opportunity kind of a guy. Maybe you don't understand the agnostic point of view. I have no problems with theists believing there is a god, or atheists believing there isn't. That's simply a choice people make with faith. If they think I'm going to hell, I'm not convinced I am. Besides, I think his rant was aimed at atheists, not agnostics.

The fact that you are even offended that some guy is telling you that you will go to a place you don't believe exists might indicate something. What do you think it means?
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:58   #61
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He'll be along shortly to claim that he rarely (if ever) encounters theists being unreasonable and/or claiming infallible knowledge.
What I rarely encounter is a theist who has a problem with my views. They think there is, I think there might be one or more, maybe not. That's not a point that seems to be a problem with most theists. But point out that an atheist, by definition, has made a choice in what to believe, and there are all sorts of opportunities to discuss it.

I think most of the theists problems with the forum is not that there are believers of another version of the beginning here, but how that is expressed. The perfect example is on page two of GTRI, title includes "Jan 13". For some it's a predatory ambush location.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:35   #62
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Maybe when the Christians stop invading the science classes.....

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Old 01-30-2013, 12:39   #63
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Through multiple disappointments that people aren't going to coddle them or baby them just because they don't like people illustrating the flaws, contradictions, and inequities in their belief system.

The easy thing to do would be to just accept that people aren't going to agree and learn to deal with it. But instead many of the religious just want those that disagree silenced. As Geko said, many believers feel that people just simply shouldn't be allowed to disagree openly because it's some kind of imagined assault on their faith.
I think our definitions of "the hard way" differ. For me, it means some discomfort inflicted by an outside source. Disappoinment for me is mainly an internal state caused by something not meeting my predetermined expectations. If I expect everyone to agree with me, I'll certainly be disappointed, but that's my problem, not everyone else's. Would I like to see everyone agree with me? I don't think so. My understanding of God is incomplete and imperfect, and requiring or expecting everyone to agree with me would make me no different than a narcissist at least, and a dictator at worst. I'm pretty sure I'm not cut out for either.
While I can't speak for Christians as a group, I can speak for myself, and I didn't decide that being a Christian was the easy way to get along in the world; It's far easier for me to take the atheist or agnostic path or to simply keep quiet, particulalrly when I was in grad school. I can't count the number of times I was shouted down there for not toeing the party line. I darn near failed the multicultural studies (it was actually relativism) class. I don't feel persecuted for it though. Going to school was a voluntary choice on my part, and I knew what I was walking in to - nobody forced me there. Therefore, babying and coddling due to a belief doesn't align with anything I've enountered in the world, unless of course you're in the company of like-minded people. In fact, it's probably safe to say that anyone that takes a position on anything will subject themselves to attack of those beliefs. For example, I think the Marine Dress Blue is the most awesome uniform worn by our armed forces. Although true, I would expect attacks for that belief (that was snark......mostly)
Also, in my experience, disappointment is part of life and the reality of living in what I consider a fallen world. It is what it is. I can't change the world, but I can have a small part in changing hearts.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:47   #64
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I think our definitions of "the hard way" differ. For me, it means some discomfort inflicted by an outside source. Disappoinment for me is mainly an internal state caused by something not meeting my predetermined expectations. If I expect everyone to agree with me, I'll certainly be disappointed, but that's my problem, not everyone else's. Would I like to see everyone agree with me? I don't think so. My understanding of God is incomplete and imperfect, and requiring or expecting everyone to agree with me would make me no different than a narcissist at least, and a dictator at worst. I'm pretty sure I'm not cut out for either.
While I can't speak for Christians as a group, I can speak for myself, and I didn't decide that being a Christian was the easy way to get along in the world; It's far easier for me to take the atheist or agnostic path or to simply keep quiet, particulalrly when I was in grad school. I can't count the number of times I was shouted down there for not toeing the party line. I darn near failed the multicultural studies (it was actually relativism) class. I don't feel persecuted for it though. Going to school was a voluntary choice on my part, and I knew what I was walking in to - nobody forced me there. Therefore, babying and coddling due to a belief doesn't align with anything I've enountered in the world, unless of course you're in the company of like-minded people. In fact, it's probably safe to say that anyone that takes a position on anything will subject themselves to attack of those beliefs. For example, I think the Marine Dress Blue is the most awesome uniform worn by our armed forces. Although true, I would expect attacks for that belief (that was snark......mostly)
Also, in my experience, disappointment is part of life and the reality of living in what I consider a fallen world. It is what it is. I can't change the world, but I can have a small part in changing hearts.
As we've noted before you appear to be one of the rare exceptions. You can see by this thread there are believers that want to silence the opposition because they feel unfairly persecuted knowing full well there will be people in here that disagree with them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:02   #65
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Maybe when the Christians stop invading the science classes.....

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Can you point to a single public school that teaches the beginning is as described in genesis??
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:05   #66
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Can you point to a single public school that teaches the beginning is as described in genesis??
Is that the only way christians could "invade" science classes?
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:15   #67
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OK. Here is the problem with that accusation.

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

I don't want to hear it.
Then why are you on a discussion forum?
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And frankly, I have about as much faith in "science's" understanding of creation as I do in the Easter Bunny laying chocolate eggs.
Always amusing to see this posted on the internet.
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You don't believe in God. Fine. Your life.

Now stay out of my discussions about the Bible. If I want your opinion of how everything in existence sprang out of nothing and evlolved into a controlled order from pure chaos all on it's own, I'll ask you.
That would be a "yes" to my original question then?
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:20   #68
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I'd rather live my life thinking there's a God only to die and find out there's not, than to live my life thinking there is no God only to die and find out there is.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:25   #69
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I'd rather live my life thinking there's a God only to die and find out there's not, than to live my life thinking there is no God only to die and find out there is.
How's it goin Pascal? We haven't seen you in about 15 minutes.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:30   #70
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I'd rather live my life thinking there's a God only to die and find out there's not, than to live my life thinking there is no God only to die and find out there is.
How would you like living you life as if there's one God (the Christian one for the sake of argument) and then only die to find out the true creator of the universe is Ahura Mazda?
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:33   #71
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Can you point to a single public school that teaches the beginning is as described in genesis??
Sure. Here's one report. In Texas.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:47   #72
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Every single thread on here lately is invaded by atheists. It's ridiculous. Look at the last dozen or so threads.

It's damned annoying.
You sound like a democrat - "I only want to hear from people who agree with me."

The forum is "religious issues" - not "pro-religion" or "christian issues"
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:57   #73
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I'm pretty sure those pesky whiney Christians don't invade science classes. I think those are required classes the students had to attend.

The "you must be a democrat" is classic too. Did Hitler round up Christians or was it scientists he rounded up? I'm telling you'll, you'll are too smart for your own good. Not that O would ever round people up or declare Martial law. The last time that happened was what, oh yeah WWII. I take that back, O ain't a fan of Christians. Maybe we should ALL be Muslims?
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:06   #74
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I'm pretty sure those pesky whiney Christians don't invade science classes.
Check back a few threads for the video of the La state senator arguing against teaching evolution in the classroom.
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:33   #75
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As we've noted before you appear to be one of the rare exceptions. You can see by this thread there are believers that want to silence the opposition because they feel unfairly persecuted knowing full well there will be people in here that disagree with them.
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As we've noted before you appear to be one of the rare exceptions. You can see by this thread there are believers that want to silence the opposition because they feel unfairly persecuted knowing full well there will be people in here that disagree with them.
Actually, I'm not an exception. The vast majority of Christians go about their lives much in the same way that I do - quietly and with as much respect as can be mustered, as do many athiests, Buddists, Druids, Wiccans, Hindus, followers of Mithra, Muslims, Humanists, FSM devotees, undecideds, etc.

Any group of people will have those that are outspoken, vocal, or abrasive about their beliefs, and I'm not surprised to find them on a discussion board. There are also people that just seem to like to be contrarian about darn near anything, and they can also be easily found on discussion boards. I wouldn't take a sample of any discussion board and attempt to extrapolate it to the larger population. Using the comments of a handful of Chistians (or any other belief system) on an internet forum to define an entire subculture is stereotypical and dishonest. The internet has facilitated the ability to argue with a large number of people with speed and efficiency unimagined in previous generations. It's also enabled us to make fools of ourselves with the same speed and efficiency. And yes, I include myself in that statement. I'm on a few internet forums - google search my user name for verification of my foolishness - the internet doesn't forgive or forget.

Not being vocal doesn't necessarily correlate with a lack of convictions. My experience with people from the aforementioned groups (and Christians as well) indicates that many have a difficult time articulating thier views, don't want to open themselves up to criticism, or simply don't want to engage in a debate.

I do think that Christians are becoming more vocal because they do believe they are being attacked, and that's an understandable response. I would expect that most people with strong beliefs would attempt to defend those beliefs when they come under attack. I know that if I were to be as critical and in-your-face to a Muslim as Christians are here in this forum when I was embedded with an Iraqi battalion, there would be a very real possiblity that I would pay with my life. The biggest thing I learned from that situation was prudence, respect and gentleness with my comments. Fortunately here in America, we don't have that threat, and I don't know a single Christian that would advocate a similiar response.
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