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Old 01-30-2013, 12:58   #61
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
He'll be along shortly to claim that he rarely (if ever) encounters theists being unreasonable and/or claiming infallible knowledge.
What I rarely encounter is a theist who has a problem with my views. They think there is, I think there might be one or more, maybe not. That's not a point that seems to be a problem with most theists. But point out that an atheist, by definition, has made a choice in what to believe, and there are all sorts of opportunities to discuss it.

I think most of the theists problems with the forum is not that there are believers of another version of the beginning here, but how that is expressed. The perfect example is on page two of GTRI, title includes "Jan 13". For some it's a predatory ambush location.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:35   #62
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Maybe when the Christians stop invading the science classes.....

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Old 01-30-2013, 13:39   #63
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Through multiple disappointments that people aren't going to coddle them or baby them just because they don't like people illustrating the flaws, contradictions, and inequities in their belief system.

The easy thing to do would be to just accept that people aren't going to agree and learn to deal with it. But instead many of the religious just want those that disagree silenced. As Geko said, many believers feel that people just simply shouldn't be allowed to disagree openly because it's some kind of imagined assault on their faith.
I think our definitions of "the hard way" differ. For me, it means some discomfort inflicted by an outside source. Disappoinment for me is mainly an internal state caused by something not meeting my predetermined expectations. If I expect everyone to agree with me, I'll certainly be disappointed, but that's my problem, not everyone else's. Would I like to see everyone agree with me? I don't think so. My understanding of God is incomplete and imperfect, and requiring or expecting everyone to agree with me would make me no different than a narcissist at least, and a dictator at worst. I'm pretty sure I'm not cut out for either.
While I can't speak for Christians as a group, I can speak for myself, and I didn't decide that being a Christian was the easy way to get along in the world; It's far easier for me to take the atheist or agnostic path or to simply keep quiet, particulalrly when I was in grad school. I can't count the number of times I was shouted down there for not toeing the party line. I darn near failed the multicultural studies (it was actually relativism) class. I don't feel persecuted for it though. Going to school was a voluntary choice on my part, and I knew what I was walking in to - nobody forced me there. Therefore, babying and coddling due to a belief doesn't align with anything I've enountered in the world, unless of course you're in the company of like-minded people. In fact, it's probably safe to say that anyone that takes a position on anything will subject themselves to attack of those beliefs. For example, I think the Marine Dress Blue is the most awesome uniform worn by our armed forces. Although true, I would expect attacks for that belief (that was snark......mostly)
Also, in my experience, disappointment is part of life and the reality of living in what I consider a fallen world. It is what it is. I can't change the world, but I can have a small part in changing hearts.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:47   #64
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I think our definitions of "the hard way" differ. For me, it means some discomfort inflicted by an outside source. Disappoinment for me is mainly an internal state caused by something not meeting my predetermined expectations. If I expect everyone to agree with me, I'll certainly be disappointed, but that's my problem, not everyone else's. Would I like to see everyone agree with me? I don't think so. My understanding of God is incomplete and imperfect, and requiring or expecting everyone to agree with me would make me no different than a narcissist at least, and a dictator at worst. I'm pretty sure I'm not cut out for either.
While I can't speak for Christians as a group, I can speak for myself, and I didn't decide that being a Christian was the easy way to get along in the world; It's far easier for me to take the atheist or agnostic path or to simply keep quiet, particulalrly when I was in grad school. I can't count the number of times I was shouted down there for not toeing the party line. I darn near failed the multicultural studies (it was actually relativism) class. I don't feel persecuted for it though. Going to school was a voluntary choice on my part, and I knew what I was walking in to - nobody forced me there. Therefore, babying and coddling due to a belief doesn't align with anything I've enountered in the world, unless of course you're in the company of like-minded people. In fact, it's probably safe to say that anyone that takes a position on anything will subject themselves to attack of those beliefs. For example, I think the Marine Dress Blue is the most awesome uniform worn by our armed forces. Although true, I would expect attacks for that belief (that was snark......mostly)
Also, in my experience, disappointment is part of life and the reality of living in what I consider a fallen world. It is what it is. I can't change the world, but I can have a small part in changing hearts.
As we've noted before you appear to be one of the rare exceptions. You can see by this thread there are believers that want to silence the opposition because they feel unfairly persecuted knowing full well there will be people in here that disagree with them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:02   #65
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Maybe when the Christians stop invading the science classes.....

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Can you point to a single public school that teaches the beginning is as described in genesis??
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:05   #66
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Can you point to a single public school that teaches the beginning is as described in genesis??
Is that the only way christians could "invade" science classes?
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:15   #67
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OK. Here is the problem with that accusation.

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

I don't want to hear it.
Then why are you on a discussion forum?
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And frankly, I have about as much faith in "science's" understanding of creation as I do in the Easter Bunny laying chocolate eggs.
Always amusing to see this posted on the internet.
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You don't believe in God. Fine. Your life.

Now stay out of my discussions about the Bible. If I want your opinion of how everything in existence sprang out of nothing and evlolved into a controlled order from pure chaos all on it's own, I'll ask you.
That would be a "yes" to my original question then?
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:20   #68
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I'd rather live my life thinking there's a God only to die and find out there's not, than to live my life thinking there is no God only to die and find out there is.
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:25   #69
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I'd rather live my life thinking there's a God only to die and find out there's not, than to live my life thinking there is no God only to die and find out there is.
How's it goin Pascal? We haven't seen you in about 15 minutes.
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:30   #70
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I'd rather live my life thinking there's a God only to die and find out there's not, than to live my life thinking there is no God only to die and find out there is.
How would you like living you life as if there's one God (the Christian one for the sake of argument) and then only die to find out the true creator of the universe is Ahura Mazda?
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:33   #71
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Can you point to a single public school that teaches the beginning is as described in genesis??
Sure. Here's one report. In Texas.
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:47   #72
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Every single thread on here lately is invaded by atheists. It's ridiculous. Look at the last dozen or so threads.

It's damned annoying.
You sound like a democrat - "I only want to hear from people who agree with me."

The forum is "religious issues" - not "pro-religion" or "christian issues"
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:57   #73
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I'm pretty sure those pesky whiney Christians don't invade science classes. I think those are required classes the students had to attend.

The "you must be a democrat" is classic too. Did Hitler round up Christians or was it scientists he rounded up? I'm telling you'll, you'll are too smart for your own good. Not that O would ever round people up or declare Martial law. The last time that happened was what, oh yeah WWII. I take that back, O ain't a fan of Christians. Maybe we should ALL be Muslims?
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Old 01-30-2013, 15:06   #74
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I'm pretty sure those pesky whiney Christians don't invade science classes.
Check back a few threads for the video of the La state senator arguing against teaching evolution in the classroom.
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Old 01-30-2013, 15:33   #75
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As we've noted before you appear to be one of the rare exceptions. You can see by this thread there are believers that want to silence the opposition because they feel unfairly persecuted knowing full well there will be people in here that disagree with them.
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As we've noted before you appear to be one of the rare exceptions. You can see by this thread there are believers that want to silence the opposition because they feel unfairly persecuted knowing full well there will be people in here that disagree with them.
Actually, I'm not an exception. The vast majority of Christians go about their lives much in the same way that I do - quietly and with as much respect as can be mustered, as do many athiests, Buddists, Druids, Wiccans, Hindus, followers of Mithra, Muslims, Humanists, FSM devotees, undecideds, etc.

Any group of people will have those that are outspoken, vocal, or abrasive about their beliefs, and I'm not surprised to find them on a discussion board. There are also people that just seem to like to be contrarian about darn near anything, and they can also be easily found on discussion boards. I wouldn't take a sample of any discussion board and attempt to extrapolate it to the larger population. Using the comments of a handful of Chistians (or any other belief system) on an internet forum to define an entire subculture is stereotypical and dishonest. The internet has facilitated the ability to argue with a large number of people with speed and efficiency unimagined in previous generations. It's also enabled us to make fools of ourselves with the same speed and efficiency. And yes, I include myself in that statement. I'm on a few internet forums - google search my user name for verification of my foolishness - the internet doesn't forgive or forget.

Not being vocal doesn't necessarily correlate with a lack of convictions. My experience with people from the aforementioned groups (and Christians as well) indicates that many have a difficult time articulating thier views, don't want to open themselves up to criticism, or simply don't want to engage in a debate.

I do think that Christians are becoming more vocal because they do believe they are being attacked, and that's an understandable response. I would expect that most people with strong beliefs would attempt to defend those beliefs when they come under attack. I know that if I were to be as critical and in-your-face to a Muslim as Christians are here in this forum when I was embedded with an Iraqi battalion, there would be a very real possiblity that I would pay with my life. The biggest thing I learned from that situation was prudence, respect and gentleness with my comments. Fortunately here in America, we don't have that threat, and I don't know a single Christian that would advocate a similiar response.
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Old 01-30-2013, 15:59   #76
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You still refuse to understand the point.

When we are discussing a biblical topic, we do not need you guys coming in and making jokes about our "magic book". I don't want to hear about evolution when I'm trying to discuss the components of the Tabernacle.

Get it?

If you want to discuss creationism vs evolution, start a thread and do it. Just quit butting into conversations that don't concern you.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:09   #77
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You still refuse to understand the point.
Oh I understand. You don't seem to understand that you have no say in the matter.

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When we are discussing a biblical topic, we do not need you guys coming in and making jokes about our "magic book".
But that's what it is. And we have issues with your magic book as well as others.

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I don't want to hear about evolution when I'm trying to discuss the components of the Tabernacle.
Then I suggest you go elsewhere. You are going to be exposed to differing views here. Both those for and against your own. If you cannot deal with that then maybe you're in the wrong place.

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Get it?
DO YOU? Do you get that this is not your forum and you do not get to pick and choose who posts what or in what topic? Do you understand this is not your venue?

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If you want to discuss creationism vs evolution, start a thread and do it. Just quit butting into conversations that don't concern you.
They do concern us. They concern us greatly.

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Old 01-30-2013, 16:19   #78
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Most of them don't concern me in the least. I don't care if you worship on Saturday, Sunday, or every fifth Tuesday during the new moon.

Generally the only time religion concerns me is when it affects me, actually or potentially.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:21   #79
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Check back a few threads for the video of the La state senator arguing against teaching evolution in the classroom.
Yeah sure, that happened and why shouldn't it? It's called govt. and how this country was founded on. Congress argues over many things you and I agree with or disagree with.

Perhaps I'm being too technical with the Christians invading science classes. I mean I guess it could have happened but I don't recall a bunch of looney creationists invading a classroom where evolution was being taught and it sure as heck (if you believe in that) doesn't happen on a regular basis.

I mean hey, if Atheists wanna hang out here, more power to you. I usually stay out of here because of all this BS but I'll state it again: For a bunch of folks who don't believe, you'll sure spend a heck of a lot of time here talking about how we are sheep that need a crutch to get thru this world.

I mean you don't see me hanging out in global warming forums talking about how they are kooks, scratch that, I mean climate change.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:25   #80
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Is that the only way christians could "invade" science classes?
Maybe not. I'm all ears.
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