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Old 01-31-2013, 22:31   #81
firstg19
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They are all great guns. If someone is telling you they are not, then they probably don't own one of each. I have never had a problem with any of them except a glock 34. And for the guy who says something about not shooting walmart ammo in new glocks...why shouldn't you be able to, when i can shoot it in all my gen3 glocks, my sigs, hks, rugers, and springfields and it works perfectly fine. Perhaps the new thing is to pay more for a Sig or HK, for the simple fact you don't get brass to the face. By the time its all said and done, I'll have more in my g34 then I spent on my sigs or hks.

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Old 02-01-2013, 00:07   #82
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I really do like Glocks. I think they're mostly trustworthy, tough guns and will serve their owners well and faithfully. They're quality guns.

But it's a big mistake to get so caught up in brand myopia that you deny yourself the undeniable quality, engineering skill, and raw sexy factor found in many non-Glock pistols, even those that cost a bit more.

Grab a Beretta 92 Inox, a Sig 229 Elite Stainless, or an HK P7. Tell me you feel nothing. Tell me it's not worth extra money, even if it's not for you.

I shall call you a liar.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:28   #83
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The German manufactured Walther PPQ has them ALL beat right now IMO. Its a better HK than HK can make. Its an HK with a perfect trigger. Too bad you can't find one though.
It was S&W (the importer) that kept the lid on the Walther PPQ because the Walther was so far ahead of the M&P its not even funny & S&W knew that the Walther PPQ would eat their lunch if Folks found out just how good a PPQ really is.
Now that Walther has a headquarters in Fort Smith Arkansas you are going to see Walthers take the hell off- especially once the word starts to get out. I just hope they keep building them in Germany.

I sure like a Glock 19 though, it just works for me in about every way. A Glock 19 is hard act to follow in a compact pistol: it just gets about everything right, but it doesn't fit everybody-thats for sure. Now, maybe the Folks that just can't fit a Glock will have something else that is, honestly, more advanced than any other polymer striker fire pistol out there. I think Glock just got served by Walther.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:41   #84
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Absolute B.S.

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Originally Posted by Hand Grenade View Post
Sigs are overpriced...overrated...overhyped pieces of junk! They have a ridiculous high bore axis and you have to spray it with rust-o-leum every day or it will rust just by looking at it. In my experience they are the most inaccurate and most unreliable pistols. Sigs will practically fall apart in water.

Between a Sig and Bryco I will take the Bryco. The DEA rejected Sig pistols and practically called them junk. Dutch government completely cancelled it's order of tens of thousands of Sig pistols because they would completely jam on the first magazine out of the box. You only paying for the name when you buy a Sig.
Biggest load of crap I have ever seen posted on a gun forum.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:35   #85
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Originally Posted by johnnywitt View Post
...It was S&W (the importer) that kept the lid on the Walther PPQ because the Walther was so far ahead of the M&P its not even funny & S&W knew that the Walther PPQ would eat their lunch if Folks found out just how good a PPQ really is...
Not true. S&W did what Walther PAID them to do and nothing more. Walther is a very small co. who has never spent a lot of money on advertising and quite frankly they are now having birthing pains as their new facility has no guns & no parts and they are hoping for such by no later than the end of the 1st quarter. Walther was beyond sluggish in supporting S&W with parts for repairs. S&W will still manufacture the PPK for Walther however using Pinetree cast frames (Ruger).
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:16   #86
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Personally, I don't care for the Sigs built in NH, but I really don't feel the quality of the standard P series pistols is any different. I agree about the P250, but I have a Sigpro 2022 that's been outstanding.

I not sure I agree that the XD or M&P are any less durable than a Glock.
I've got a W. German Sig P226 I bought in 1988, and a newly purchased Sig P226R, I just bought. The trigger pulls, action, and quality seems equal in both, as far as I can tell.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:55   #87
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it's a big mistake to get so caught up in brand myopia that you deny yourself the undeniable quality, engineering skill, and raw sexy factor found in many non-Glock pistols, even those that cost a bit more.

Now that is a good one.

My idea of "raw sexy factor" starts with an AR-15, not some pop gun.

A handgun is simply what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never let be so far out of reach in the first place.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:19   #88
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Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
it's a big mistake to get so caught up in brand myopia that you deny yourself the undeniable quality, engineering skill, and raw sexy factor found in many non-Glock pistols, even those that cost a bit more.

Now that is a good one.

My idea of "raw sexy factor" starts with an AR-15, not some pop gun.

A handgun is simply what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never let be so far out of reach in the first place.
Well, that's fine for the people who never have to go anywhere they can't take a rifle with them. Not all of us have that luxury.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:23   #89
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Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post

My idea of "raw sexy factor" starts with an AR-15, not some pop gun.

A handgun is simply what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never let be so far out of reach in the first place.


I must say that you're just way too tactical for me.

Maybe I'll be as cool as you are someday, but right now I still don't carry an AR-15 in my car every day.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:01   #90
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Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
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Damn, I guess you didn't realize that Sig doesn't even make the Mosquito, did you?
You're basing your opinion of a stellar company like Sig Sauer on a pot metal rimfire built by an airsoft company? That's like basing your opinion of Walther on the P22. Yeah, I'd say you need to learn a thing or two, wouldn't you agree?

Also, the M&P and especially the XD are about as different from Glock as another striker fired polymer pistol can be. A copy of Glock? The XD? Get real. I'm not sure which one of your buds told you that, but they're totally different pistols.
Do you have any other good info for me?


Naw, really not. Unless its raining or really cold, I don't have time for 75,000 posts. Get a life.

But wait, it said SIG on the Mosquito, came in a SIG box, and the NH factory paid to get it back twice to try to fix. That's not SIG? Oh, just something they put their name on? (I have carried SIGs, a P226 and a P220. Both were OK, but not anything special. Their design is ancient from the 1970 era Browning design that barely sold and the bore line is so high above your hand the P220 especially is no real fun to shoot a lot in one day.)

But wait more. The S&W M&P and the Croatian guns are plastic bottomed, steel railed, striker fired, by a drawbar trigger, hand guns. Cosmetics and some engineering differ from Glock, but most were a step backwards, not forwards. Unless the ass end of the striker sticking out the rear of the slide really is an inovation. Oh, Smiths can have a safety. Not a step forward. For all practical purposes, they are copies of the Glock design idea.

But wait, what would I know. Barely 100 posts in the midst of internet genius. Some day I have to figure out quoting.

But wait, I gotta have a picture to be InterKool. I rate me:

Yes I am making fun of you.

Those who have no valid argument resort to personal
attacks.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:09   #91
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I've got a W. German Sig P226 I bought in 1988, and a newly purchased Sig P226R, I just bought. The trigger pulls, action, and quality seems equal in both, as far as I can tell.
I agree, I have a Sig P228 (German) manufactured in the early 90s and a P239 made about 3 years ago and the trigger pull, action and quality are very close.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:18   #92
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Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
it's a big mistake to get so caught up in brand myopia that you deny yourself the undeniable quality, engineering skill, and raw sexy factor found in many non-Glock pistols, even those that cost a bit more.

Now that is a good one.

My idea of "raw sexy factor" starts with an AR-15, not some pop gun.

A handgun is simply what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never let be so far out of reach in the first place.
See, I just like a well-engineered firearm, I don't discriminate.

For my money, a Browning Hi-Power with good blue finish and quality wood grips is to even the fanciest AR-15 what Mila Kunis is to that fat chick from Bridesmaids. And I say that having a fancy Daniel Defense AR that I love

Also, not to lecture, but if you're referring to firearms as "pop guns" you're probably not giving them the respect they're due. Those pop guns will kill you in a heartbeat if you don't take them seriously, safety-wise.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:54   #93
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I saw a Sig 938 9mm at a store last week. I was wondering if anyone has had one, or shot one? I was thinking about getting one. Ron
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Old 02-01-2013, 13:44   #94
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I have not yet figured out how to get an AR-15 into my cargo shorts front pants pocket no matter how hard I try for three seasons tucked in T-Shirt weather.

I have carried and been paid to use S&W, Glock, Colt, SIG, and HK guns ever since 1975 and occasionally snuck a Walther or Beretta in here and there as needed. Nothing is superior to a Glock for simply going bang and hitting your target with no firearms related fuss.

As to a pocket gun, Kahr, Taurus, KelTec, and Diamondback products have been tried and passed to the junk pile as unreliable. My S&W M&P 340 .357 with Speer GD 135+P loads gets the nod whenever a Glock doesn't find a belt holster to ride on. They both go bang every time.

As to the AR-15, I'm only half joking. Surprise, time, and distance keep you alive. Anything other than nailing the threat from surprise from the longest possible distance away taking all the time you need means you are in the threats environment playing his game. Odds being what odds are and Mr. Murphy being closely related to Mrs. Murphy who is a cold be'ach, playing someone else's game means you lose sometimes.

No body in their right mind faced off in the street in Tombstone with pistols. They shot the threat in the back with a rifle as he rode into town. Dry Gulching means careful survivorship.
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Old 02-01-2013, 16:14   #95
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Glocks are inexpensive because they cost less to make. Glock's have fewer parts and their manufacturing process is very efficient and cost effective. The Glock revolution was as much about the way they make guns as the guns themselves.
I agree. I have a Glock, Sig and H&K and you can tell that the Glock is the cheapest to produce due to having less machined parts and less parts in total. I have never had a problem with either of my guns and they are all quality pieces. I guess they are like women, some just cost more than others!
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Old 02-01-2013, 16:35   #96
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why cant glock get a polymer frame right?
why the pig nose, what purpose does it serve?
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Old 02-01-2013, 22:34   #97
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If I had to pick another brand of service weapon over Glock, it would absolutely be the Sig. I like the DA/SA transition offered by the Sig, as well as the location of the frame-mounted de-cocking lever. The Sig P220 I own shoots tight groups and operates flawlessly with whatever factory ammo I shoot through it. The precision manufacture of these guns is what you pay for, and the W.German made guns (in particular) tend to hold their value well.

I was once a Beretta guy, but found the lousy first-shot DA pull and slide-mounted de-cocker (G-variant) were a detriment to my best shooting. S&W Gen3's had the same slide-mounted lever issue, but a good DA (and even DAO) trigger pull. However, the S&W's had durability issues (the trigger play spring and fitted extractor being the Achilles heel of the design).

I carry a Glock on duty, and use the Sig as a range gun for a change of pace. My "M-glove-size" hands don't do well with .45ACP Glock pistols, so the Sig is my .45ACP platform. Yes, I know that the carbon-steel slide of the Sig can corrode if I expose it to the elements (abuse that a Glock would shrug off). I also know that Sig doesn't recommend sustained use of "+P" in the older P220's (a capability Glock shooters take for granted). The Sig bore axis doesn't phase me in the least, and, again, I enjoy my Sig for it's precision.

Metal-framed guns with lots of parts tend to cost more than polymer-framed pistols with a low parts-count. Sigs cost more than Glocks. I love both!!
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Old 02-01-2013, 23:06   #98
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It's too bad that S&W isn't still making the old steel DA/SA pistols. When the English firm owned the company, they made a lot of neat steel auto pistols. You could order a custom gun, from the ordinary catalog, until they messed up the whole company. I'm just not gonna like the SIG, so that pretty well narrows it down to CZ, I think. Does S&W still make any of their old steel autos, not custom shop deals?
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:45   #99
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It's too bad that S&W isn't still making the old steel DA/SA pistols. When the English firm owned the company, they made a lot of neat steel auto pistols. You could order a custom gun, from the ordinary catalog, until they messed up the whole company. I'm just not gonna like the SIG, so that pretty well narrows it down to CZ, I think. Does S&W still make any of their old steel autos, not custom shop deals?
Smith does. not build any steel autos except for 1911s, other than the Performance Center. I think they still build the 41 in the Performance Center.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:54   #100
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Smith does. not build any steel autos except for 1911s, other than the Performance Center. I think they still build the 41 in the Performance Center.
Categorically untrue. As of now, S&W is still making their Gen3 metal frame guns for LE contract orders. The guns are made at their facility in Houlton, Maine (where they also make their excellent handcuffs). I'm from NY, and the 3914DAO and 5946 are still made for NYPD. The local gun stores stock the 3914DAO's for NYPD off-duty purchase. I've also seen new-manufacture 6946's available for local sale (also used here in NY, by NYC Corrections). Also, about a year ago S&W announced a contract sale of metal-framed .45ACP's (I don't recall which model) for a Police agency which wanted to continue the use of these guns. If you REALLY want a metal-framed S&W, certain models can still be had. You'll pay a Sig Sauer price, though.
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