GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2013, 09:52   #26
Happypuppy
Senior Member
 
Happypuppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: North Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 735
Durocoat , or the Krylon Camo paints are fine and you can do it yourself. Just rough the stock up with steel wool or very fine sandpaper. There are some video on YouTube on how to do it

I have had several lever actions over the years. A Savage 99, Marlin 336 and Winchester 88. All were fine guns. A consideration is with the Winchester 94 style is its a bit more difficult to mount a scope, but doable. Hornady makes a good lever action round I am not sure all,the calibers.
Happypuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 10:51   #27
Cwlongshot
Senior Member
 
Cwlongshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac66 View Post
There's a lot of WTF in this thread.

Nobody hunts with hollow points and I don't even know of a hollow point load for the 30-30 and I've been shooting for 50 years. Anyone who hunts deer with a hollow point 357 is an idiot.

Second, while the idea of interchangeable ammo for rifle and pistol may sound like a good idea, there really is no point to it. Use your pistol which is easy and less powerful for close up self defense, and use a rifle in a rifle cartridge for longer distances. Using a pistol cartridge in a rifle negates the advantage of having a rifle, i.e, more power at longer range.

I have several pistol caliber carbines which are fun to shoot but if I need a rifle I am going to choose one in a rifle cartridge. I had a 357 mag lever action once. Never could figure out what it was good for other than playing cowboy.

Finally, the world is filled with short lever action rifles without having to resort to some POS gimmick gun from Mossberg.
Strong words my friend...
There are MANY good HP bullets specifically designed for big game hunting. As an example, Barnes has built a company making HP ammo designed for the largest game the world has to offer...
Speaking of 357Mag ammo used in a carbine barrel on game. I would and am more tactful... but I agree.
BUT using a 357Mag from a handgun, heavier HP ammo is VERY acceptable and desirable!

http://www.winchester.com/products/r.../X30306BP.aspx

Why most peoples first reaction when hearing a 357Mag used for anything but people or targets is a negative is beyond me... Simply looking at the ballistics and knowing the bullets diameter will give you all the info thats needed. The argument that a 30-30 has more range is a valid one as its bullet is much more stream lined and will carry that ''power'' farther. But inside its useful range, (Limited because of the short fat 357 Mag bullet) as stated the 357Mag with proper bullets and load is SUPERIOR to the 30-30 Winchester. That meas that all you know as acceptable for the 30-30 is and can be applied to the 357Mag in a carbine... That's the facts.

I don't much care for the looks of this Mossberg either. But lets not run down this path as its a slippery slope... LOOKS don't alone make for a bad, evil, or non functional it simply makes it a different gun.

CW
__________________
NRA Life member NRA Certified Pistol & Shotgun Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Coach Certified Range Officer Reloading Instructor
ALWAYS REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

Last edited by Cwlongshot; 02-03-2013 at 10:52..
Cwlongshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 10:59   #28
ViennaGambit
Senior Member
 
ViennaGambit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 746
Have a 357mag Marlin - I would not take a deer past 75 yards with it. I would not take a black bear with it.

Also, good like finding one for under $1,500 - even the remlins are selling for close to 2k on Gun broker.

That should be a big factor in your decision as depending on how much you shoot the extra cost of 30-30 ammo doesn't seem too bad when you can buy a 30-30 for under $400..
__________________
Your Move.
ViennaGambit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 11:24   #29
chewybaca67
Senior Member
 
chewybaca67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 5,244
Send a message via AIM to chewybaca67 Send a message via Yahoo to chewybaca67
I have a Marlin 357mag lever gun and let me tell you. That thing rocks! It'll shoot just about any semi and/or full hallow point round and hand loading gives it much potential. I loaded some 110 grain Gold Dots in 357 and short a big ol fat squirrel in my ma's corral from about 60 yards, just flipped the rear sight down and aimed between the sight screws and that fat booger did a couple of cart wheel in the air. Went down and found him completely hollowed out. I think all the other squirrels saw that and just packed up and left as Ma had a squirrel investation up until that time. 125 grain Gold Dots exploded water jugs. Anyway, if one is utilitarian minded, 357 mag/38 spec may be more flexible.
__________________
"Come out and fight!................It is a good day to die."
Chief Dan George
chewybaca67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 11:34   #30
MrMurphy
Head Sheepdog
 
MrMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Buried in the X-files
Posts: 31,638
One of the Wesson family of S&W back in the 30s used a .357 (6" IIRC) to take just about every kind of game on earth including most of the large clawed African stuff.

It may not be a .50 BMG but it's not a wimp load.
__________________
"And Shepherds we shall be. For thee, my Lord for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et fili, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."
MrMurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 16:12   #31
Jason D
Silver Membership
INFRINGED!
 
Jason D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Mivonks, MI
Posts: 41,429
There are a lot of nice Winchester 94's out there that need a home.
While I haven't shot mine it a long time, I wouldn't get rid of it either. I have also never handled a better lever gun.
__________________
An enlightened zeal for the energy and efficiency of government will be stigmatized as the offspring of a temper fond of despotic power and hostile to the principles of liberty.

Alexander Hamilton, author of Federalist No. 1. 10/27/1787
Jason D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 19:09   #32
vista461
Senior Member
 
vista461's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S.E. WI
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac66 View Post
Anyone who hunts deer with a hollow point 357 is an idiot.
The 8 point buck whose antlers are on my wall didn't have much to say to this idiot after he was shot with a .357 180grn Winchester hollowpoint.
vista461 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 20:15   #33
FLIPPER 348
Happy Member
 
FLIPPER 348's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bend Oregon
Posts: 21,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac66 View Post
There's a lot of WTF in this thread.

Anyone who hunts deer with a hollow point 357 is an idiot.



.....we have plenty of idiots out here in the high desert of Oregon it seems
FLIPPER 348 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:47   #34
Haldor
Retired EE
 
Haldor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Arizona
Posts: 5,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
What do you guys think of a lever gun in 357/38 so that I don't have to stock up on another caliber? The logistics is a concern as well as the fact that the 30-30 ain't exactly the cheapest ammo either.
It will cost you twice as much as a 30-30. You can buy a lot of ammo for $400.
__________________
Quote:
Guys! Guys! He's down! Stop kicking him! If he shows up on another thread, Tasers are indicated, but for now, let him slink off into the shadows to lick his wounds and ponder how deeply cool and misunderstood he is!
Hoot nred Mrs. Vr.
Haldor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:55   #35
lawman800
Juris Glocktor
 
lawman800's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 37,315
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldor View Post
It will cost you twice as much as a 30-30. You can buy a lot of ammo for $400.
Understood... but actually, for me, I wouldn't have to buy any ammo. Got tons of 357/38 ammo. I have a few revolvers in that caliber and bought tons of ammo of all sorts of weights and designs, including some +P magnum stuff which I had tried once in my Python... and my hand let me know to not do it too often.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron:
I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
lawman800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 09:13   #36
Haldor
Retired EE
 
Haldor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Arizona
Posts: 5,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Understood... but actually, for me, I wouldn't have to buy any ammo. Got tons of 357/38 ammo. I have a few revolvers in that caliber and bought tons of ammo of all sorts of weights and designs, including some +P magnum stuff which I had tried once in my Python... and my hand let me know to not do it too often.
That is a different story entirely. Plus the action on the pistol carbines is scaled appropriately so it makes a lighter gun.

I wouldn't mind having one in .44 mag to go with my Model 29, but I just can't see paying the price. Perhaps I will stumble across one at a great deal (it does happen).
__________________
Quote:
Guys! Guys! He's down! Stop kicking him! If he shows up on another thread, Tasers are indicated, but for now, let him slink off into the shadows to lick his wounds and ponder how deeply cool and misunderstood he is!
Hoot nred Mrs. Vr.
Haldor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:19   #37
sdsnet
CLM Number 43
NRA Member
 
sdsnet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,739


How about you just buy a 45/70 Guide gun and be done with it... That looks a lot less menacing even though it is much more menacing Its not expensive either.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firear...bore/1895G.asp
__________________
NRA Member
Black Rifle Club # 1995
Kalashnikov Klub # 1995
Ham Shack Club # 1995
Walther Club # 1995

-My username has nothing to do with Students for Democratic Society-

Last edited by sdsnet; 02-05-2013 at 06:20..
sdsnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 11:58   #38
glock39
Senior Member
 
glock39's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 341
Yesterday I checked out the local Gander Mountain. The only lever action 357 they had left was a Rossi Ranch Hand:

http://www.rossiusa.com/product-deta...adcrumbseries=

I had briefly considered one of these earlier, but dismissed it as a range toy. The Ranch Hand is far too clunky to use as a serious close quarters pistol. But while I was there, I asked the clerk to let me handle one. Somewhat to my surprise, I discovered that was possible to hold it against my shoulder. Sort of. Very awkward, and only the bottom point of the stock was actually touching. I suspect that a shotgun style shoulder pad and/or a removable recoil pad on the pistol would make a noticeable improvement. But I actually had a usable sight picture and it was far more stable than holding a pistol out with two hands. Ballistically the 12 inch barrel gives most of the advantages of a carbine, and if it could be shot more accurately than a pistol...

The Ranch Hand is legally a pistol, so it would usually have to be carried concealed. But at 24 inches, it's small enough to fit inside a backpack, gym bag or whatever much easier than a 34 inch carbine. Definitely a compromise in shoot-ability, but there's a lot to be said for a "long" gun that can be carried inconspicuously. If it was spotted, it's even more "cowboy" than a lever action rifle.
Attached Thumbnails
General Firearms Forum - Click for larger version  

Last edited by glock39; 02-06-2013 at 12:09..
glock39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 13:13   #39
ak103k
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PA- In the shadow of the Shade
Posts: 705
I would imagine you could hold the Ranch Hand or similar type guns up to your cheek and acquire a more or less normal cheek weld, even though the stock isnt against your shoulder, and have decent results.

Ive done this with my AK's with side folders, and a couple of SMG's with the stocks collapsed, and they all shot quite well are reasonable distances.

You just get a cheek weld where you normally do with the stocked version or stock out, and the only thing missing, is shoulder contact.
__________________
Zeitgeist - The movie

Zeitgeist - Addendum
ak103k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 22:13   #40
lawman800
Juris Glocktor
 
lawman800's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 37,315
Blog Entries: 1
Thought about the Ranch Hand but not as a concealable gun by any means... but rather, like you said, more of a backpack or truck gun.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron:
I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
lawman800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 22:58   #41
gatorboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by glock39 View Post
Yesterday I checked out the local Gander Mountain. The only lever action 357 they had left was a Rossi Ranch Hand:

http://www.rossiusa.com/product-deta...adcrumbseries=

I had briefly considered one of these earlier, but dismissed it as a range toy. The Ranch Hand is far too clunky to use as a serious close quarters pistol. But while I was there, I asked the clerk to let me handle one. Somewhat to my surprise, I discovered that was possible to hold it against my shoulder. Sort of. Very awkward, and only the bottom point of the stock was actually touching. I suspect that a shotgun style shoulder pad and/or a removable recoil pad on the pistol would make a noticeable improvement. But I actually had a usable sight picture and it was far more stable than holding a pistol out with two hands. Ballistically the 12 inch barrel gives most of the advantages of a carbine, and if it could be shot more accurately than a pistol...

The Ranch Hand is legally a pistol, so it would usually have to be carried concealed. But at 24 inches, it's small enough to fit inside a backpack, gym bag or whatever much easier than a 34 inch carbine. Definitely a compromise in shoot-ability, but there's a lot to be said for a "long" gun that can be carried inconspicuously. If it was spotted, it's even more "cowboy" than a lever action rifle.
I like the lever gun idea for all the reasons you mentioned in your first post. I have a Marlin 44mag and it's great. This thing? Blah! I'll take an AK pistol any day over it. If you must conceal it, might as well go AK pistol. For open carry and not freaking sheeple (or people even) out, wood furniture lever gun.
gatorboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 23:21   #42
hogship
It's MY Island
 
hogship's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northwest territory, pardner!
Posts: 11,701
While I can understand the desire to be more discreet and un-threatening looking, this seems like the wrong frame of mind to take to a gun fight.

Let's say you will potentially be facing a bad guy with a Glock 17, or an AR15, or a bolt rifle in 270, or even a revolver.......Since you just don't know what you'll be facing in the real world, would you now be more inclined to wish you had that SKS?

I certainly would. If I have to put my trunk gun to use......I want the best advantage I can give myself.......and it's NOT a lever rifle, unless I could pick and choose who, and what I'll be facing.......let's get real, you can't do that! At that point, putting forth a politically correct public image is the last thing I'll be thinking of......



ooc
__________________
NRA/VFW life, Harley Davidson FXDX, very patriotic!
Old iron pumper w/pony tail, Christian, lathe artist
Rock'n'Roll, AC/DC & Elvis! Clings to religion & guns!
Visit my Vietnam photo album, 1968-69 click on link
www.picturetrail.com/taipan22alpha

Last edited by hogship; 02-06-2013 at 23:23..
hogship is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 23:25   #43
lawman800
Juris Glocktor
 
lawman800's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 37,315
Blog Entries: 1
I wouldn't feel too undergunned with a good lever rifle against most weapons out there unless I am going to be in a protracted gunfight against guys like the North Hollywood robbers with thousands of rounds in a full auto rifle.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron:
I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
lawman800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 04:06   #44
Cwlongshot
Senior Member
 
Cwlongshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogship View Post
While I can understand the desire to be more discreet and un-threatening looking, this seems like the wrong frame of mind to take to a gun fight.

Let's say you will potentially be facing a bad guy with a Glock 17, or an AR15, or a bolt rifle in 270, or even a revolver.......Since you just don't know what you'll be facing in the real world, would you now be more inclined to wish you had that SKS?

I certainly would. If I have to put my trunk gun to use......I want the best advantage I can give myself.......and it's NOT a lever rifle, unless I could pick and choose who, and what I'll be facing.......let's get real, you can't do that! At that point, putting forth a politically correct public image is the last thing I'll be thinking of......



ooc
I never could understand this line of thinking...

Not really talking personal protection here, but ''battles'' are won with tactics and rounds ON TARGET. Spray and pray will be left nerves twitching on the floor with a well places shot...

TRAINING, SHOOTING will overcome ALLOT if not ALL situations. Cool heads come from that, we all know cooler heads usually prevail.

I'm a competitive shooter, many times I have beaten shooters with high tech Benelli shotguns. Beaten them a couple times with a 100 year only Winchester thumb buster!! The first time we did that we where nearly laughed off the line... at the end there was allot of back slapping and many wanted to see this old shotgun. Much like the saying its the singer not the song... Its the shooter NOT the gun.

CW
__________________
NRA Life member NRA Certified Pistol & Shotgun Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Coach Certified Range Officer Reloading Instructor
ALWAYS REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE
Cwlongshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:59   #45
glock39
Senior Member
 
glock39's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Thought about the Ranch Hand but not as a concealable gun by any means... but rather, like you said, more of a backpack or truck gun.
Well, by concealable, I obviously mean only in comparison to a regular rifle. You could put a Ranch Hand inside a gym bag and carry it to and from your truck without anyone wondering what's in the funny, rifle-shaped package. You could walk down the street carring a 2 foot bag of some kind and not stand out as much as you would carrying a 3 foot bag.

If it did get spotted, it's more friendly looking than a AK pistol or broken down AR rifle. If it was discovered by your employer or a police officer, it doesn't look as much like you're on your way to start a mass shooting. For a backpack gun, it's probably more explainable to a game warden than any military style gun would be.
glock39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:15   #46
Hauptmann6
Senior Member
 
Hauptmann6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Portage, MI
Posts: 9,198
Send a message via AIM to Hauptmann6 Send a message via MSN to Hauptmann6 Send a message via Yahoo to Hauptmann6
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac66 View Post
Nobody hunts with hollow points and I don't even know of a hollow point load for the 30-30 and I've been shooting for 50 years. Anyone who hunts deer with a hollow point 357 is an idiot.
Remington makes them in the Core Lokt line. 170 grain. I've used them, but switched to soft points as they grouped better.

Both made dead deer. Not sure about true performance as all of the deer I shot with it were neck shots.
__________________
--Power corrupts. Absolute power is pretty groovy baby!--
Do you believe in forever?
I don't even believe in tomorrow
The only things that last forever
Are memories and sorrow
Hauptmann6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 17:13   #47
hogship
It's MY Island
 
hogship's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Northwest territory, pardner!
Posts: 11,701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwlongshot View Post
I never could understand this line of thinking...

Not really talking personal protection here, but ''battles'' are won with tactics and rounds ON TARGET. Spray and pray will be left nerves twitching on the floor with a well places shot...

TRAINING, SHOOTING will overcome ALLOT if not ALL situations. Cool heads come from that, we all know cooler heads usually prevail.

I'm a competitive shooter, many times I have beaten shooters with high tech Benelli shotguns. Beaten them a couple times with a 100 year only Winchester thumb buster!! The first time we did that we where nearly laughed off the line... at the end there was allot of back slapping and many wanted to see this old shotgun. Much like the saying its the singer not the song... Its the shooter NOT the gun.

CW
Well, I do understand you're line of thinking. On the surface, it seems reasonable, but is a result of not making decisions based on giving yourself the best possible advantage. Yes, I'd agree about cool heads and being familiar with tactics, but the truth is that you might, and you might not wish you had an equipment advantage.......especially since it's a realistic likelihood that whomever you might be facing will be able to apply that advantage against a lever action rifle.

It's a gamble, and you can increase the odds by having the tools that will cover all the possibilities with a better advantage. This is not to say it's impossible to prevail with the lever rifle, but to believe it covers all the likely "unknowns" is fallacy.........

To be fair, I have, in the past, used a lever rifle for a truck gun. I don't anymore, specifically because honest evaluation of the realistic possibilities suggest there are times when a lever rifle might not be the best choice.......no matter how cool headed I am, or level of training I've had.

There is one thing I'd like to make clear........Using a lever rifle as a trunk gun isn't a poor choice at all. I'm not saying anyone else should not choose a lever rifle for this purpose.....I don't, and that's a personal choice I have made for myself, and nobody else but me. From my point of view, there are other choices that are clearly better from the aspect that situations differ.......and the best equipment to handle different situations may differ, as well......

ooc
__________________
NRA/VFW life, Harley Davidson FXDX, very patriotic!
Old iron pumper w/pony tail, Christian, lathe artist
Rock'n'Roll, AC/DC & Elvis! Clings to religion & guns!
Visit my Vietnam photo album, 1968-69 click on link
www.picturetrail.com/taipan22alpha

Last edited by hogship; 02-07-2013 at 17:27..
hogship is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 16:36   #48
TheGrimReaper
Senior Member
 
TheGrimReaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 1,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
That POS is nearly a $400 gun and it's made by Mossberg. That's like paying $600 for a Taurus revolver. That's more than I paid for my Marlin 1895G with scope, 50 rounds of ammo and about 500 rounds of ..223 thrown in. It shouldn't be hard to get a real lever action from a decent gun company for under $300.
Tell'em! Get a used marlin and be done with it.

Last edited by TheGrimReaper; 02-08-2013 at 16:36..
TheGrimReaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 01:59   #49
ZombieJoe
Senior Member
 
ZombieJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Great Laker
Posts: 321
Have you thought about a Mares Leg?

My camping gun is a Hi Point 995. Its fits the job perfect for me, but it does have the "tacticool" look.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
ZombieJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 08:13   #50
glock39
Senior Member
 
glock39's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieJoe View Post
Have you thought about a Mares Leg?

My camping gun is a Hi Point 995. Its fits the job perfect for me, but it does have the "tacticool" look.
We see to think alike. A Hi Point 4595 is on my wish list, although it's a bit more aggresive looking than what I'm after at the moment.

The Rossi Ranch Hand I was discussing above is a factory built Mare's Leg. In 357 it would probably be more versatile than most other pistol caliber choices.
glock39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:14.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,096
343 Members
753 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42