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Old 02-06-2013, 06:25   #26
grg3d
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Hi Guys and Gals, So……price gouging…..well here’s my view on it.

Just recently I went to a gun show and needed some money so I thought I’d bring a few mags - 5 Pmags, 2 Glock 33rd’s and 2 Glock 17rd’s mags I also brought a spam can of 7.62x 54R and 300 rounds of .45’s to sell as I wanted to purchase some SKS stripper clips & a couple of Tapco 20round mags.


At the gun show there were other Metal AR 15 mags for $40.00 each and no one had any Glock mags for sale unless you count the Korean mags that were selling for $45.00 each(17rds) or $85.00 for the 33rdrs'


So I sat at the concession stand were you eat your food with a sign “For Sale” with no price on it.



Well it was like chumming for sharks (took 15 minutes to sell out) and this is what I was offered with no counter offers
  • Pmags = $50.00 ea
  • Glock 9mm 33 rounders = $100.00 ea
  • Glock 9mm 17 rounders = $50.00ea
  • 440 rounds 7.62x 54R = $100.00
  • 300 rounds of .45’s = $25.00 ea (Blazer Aluminum case)
I walked out of the show with $850.00 in cash plus paid for my gas, enterance fee and the items I wanted
However I still paid for the Tapco mag "I" wanted for $50.00 and in the whole gun show I could only find 2 at that price
(they used to be $15.99 before) everything was marked up 100% to 200% and the only thing that I saw people buying was ammo….223 or 5.56 were a buck a round and hand gun ammo was 10 to 20 dollars over what it was selling 3 months ago.


So do I feel like I was “price gouging?”

No they offered me money for things “they” wanted for a price “they” were willing to pay....just as I did.

The only thing I feel bad about is I sold some items I might not be able to replace in the future but that’s ok as I have been stocking up for 4 years now and still have everything I need.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:27   #27
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I am a businessman. I know the difference between "making a buck" and gouging. One doesn't hurt everyone else, the other does. The minute you forget the ramifications of your actions to make a buck, you will probably hurt others to get ahead. The stuff didn't hit the fan yet. It will be a whole different world if and when it truly does.
I don't think you have a clue how the free marketplace operates. Furthermore you're extolling the very virtues of the people currently trying to take our freedoms away. You would probably flourish in an entitlement atmosphere where everyone "owes" you something at what you consider a "fair" price.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:34   #28
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Pssst OP, your communism is showing.

There is no such thing as price gouging. People will pay what they feel is true market value at the time of purchase. If they don't sellers will lower their prices.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:42   #29
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Thanks slug 71. I am with you. I don't pay and I don't cry.
Coulda fooled me.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:36   #30
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Current market value *to me* is the current prices advertised on the populer sites(excl. CTD), not Gunbroker or forum prices.
Luckily for everyone, markets don't care what values are *to you*.

Market value is defined to be the price people will pay. There literally cannot be any other definition.

I'm not going to buy PMags for $50 a pop either, but I don't whine about how it's "not market value." People are paying it. It's market value. It's not the fault of the sellers, it's the fault of the buyers.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:47   #31
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How self entitled are you?
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:05   #32
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Think of it this way. A 17-round Glock mag and a 30-round PMAG are roughly worth the same amount of "money" currently. You can easily trade like-for-like right now. It's only when you try to use currency to purchase these scarce items that you realize that the price has gone up. It may go back down, but why are these items scarce now? Well, people have a perception that they will be made illegal soon. It's a distinct possibility. It drives prices up. However, you can still trade like-for-like.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:14   #33
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Really? You join a forum and immediately start preaching to the established membership about this sort of thing? That's just strange.

Welcome to GT. I recommend a six month lurk...
OOps!!! did i not pass your seniority test. 4m's are for free discussion. If that is strange as you put it, try Mexico or Russia, you will fit right in.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:16   #34
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I sold 3 glock 19 mags(basically brand new) for 100 shipped, I did not think I was gouging at all
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:19   #35
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Cheaper than dirt (i think thats where I saw it) has a 33rd glock mag for $185.

Yeah, they aren't getting my business in the future.

That's all I wanted to say.



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Old 02-06-2013, 08:26   #36
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OOps!!! did i not pass your seniority test. 4m's are for free discussion. If that is strange as you put it, try Mexico or Russia, you will fit right in.
No, man, there's no seniority test. It's just that had you read this forum for a while you would have seen that most of us are free market oriented and that your post would elicit the kind of response that it did.

And you're right, it is a free discussion, and most of the discussion disagrees with you.

I've been to Mexico, btw, and I fit in pretty well. I'd probably be OK in Russia, too. Are you offering to pay my way?
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:40   #37
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Greed is good. Capitalism is the cornerstone of America. There is no sympathy or mercy in business. This is not gouging, it is profit. What someone pays for an item has no bearing on what it should be sold for.


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Old 02-06-2013, 08:40   #38
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
No, man, there's no seniority test. It's just that had you read this forum for a while you would have seen that most of us are free market oriented and that your post would elicit the kind of response that it did.

And you're right, it is a free discussion, and most of the discussion disagrees with you.

I've been to Mexico, btw, and I fit in pretty well. I'd probably be OK in Russia, too. Are you offering to pay my way?
Out of all the disagreement posts, the OP chose the "seniority test" as the one to whine about.

Oy!
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:53   #39
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Greed is good. Capitalism is the cornerstone of America. There is no sympathy or mercy in business. This is not gouging, it is profit. What someone pays for an item has no bearing on what it should be sold for.


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Besides trolling for idiots is a time honored business practice. If someone wants to give an outrageous price for an item compaired to what the owner thinks it is worth, well take his money. Especally an item that can be manufactured in large numbers to take advantage of said situations.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:11   #40
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I don't think you have a clue how the free marketplace operates. Furthermore you're extolling the very virtues of the people currently trying to take our freedoms away. You would probably flourish in an entitlement atmosphere where everyone "owes" you something at what you consider a "fair" price.
I'm an officer on the board at our sportsmen's club. When I shared that statement with them they all laughed. I am not in any way an entitlement supporter. For 30 years I bought and sold houses, rented houses, and remodeled houses and retired at age 54. Before that, I worked in a factory as a laborer for 2 years. I never received an entitlement in my life. As for your harsh judgmental statement about me, it comes from the same place your ideals come from: Your own mind. Which by the way needs no basis for the truth, as long as you believe it. As far as government trying to take our freedoms away, try to start a business, you will learn that they already have. If you work for someone else that may be a hard concept to understand.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:17   #41
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Cheaper than dirt (i think thats where I saw it) has a 33rd glock mag for $185.

Yeah, they aren't getting my business in the future.

That's all I wanted to say.



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Because you don't have the money?
Or because you think it's not worth that much to anyone else ?
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:20   #42
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No, man, there's no seniority test. It's just that had you read this forum for a while you would have seen that most of us are free market oriented and that your post would elicit the kind of response that it did.

And you're right, it is a free discussion, and most of the discussion disagrees with you.

I've been to Mexico, btw, and I fit in pretty well. I'd probably be OK in Russia, too. Are you offering to pay my way?
So you are saying that I am not free to oppose your ideals until... when? And i noticed you are a US HERE kind of guy that needs to throw stones when you have a crowd behind you supporting you. Be unafraid of my statements. They are only my opinions that I am, as you put it "entitled" to.No one on this or any other 4m knows that any better than me. It is my opinion, and it ain't always right or perfect.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:38   #43
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The Hunt brothers didn't go to jail for gouging, it was for manipulating the silver market in the '70s. By '79 they owned about 100 million ounces of silver and made about 3 billion dollars. They were caught, but it wasn't gouging.

They came close to cornering the silver market, but didn't. Those were the days - $50/ounce for silver. A good state job requiring a couple of degrees only started out paying $9600/yr.

John
I was talking about 1987 "Black Friday. The two are connected. Look at the link below. I am well aware of the Hunt Bro's as well as almost everyone is. Black Monday refers to Monday October 19, 1987, when stock markets around the world crashed, shedding a huge value in a very short time. The crash began in Hong Kong and spread west to Europe, hitting the United States after other markets had already declined by a significant margin. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) dropped by 508 points to 1738.74 (22.61%).[1]
By the end of October, stock markets in Hong Kong had fallen 45.5%, Australia 41.8%, Spain 31%, the United Kingdom 26.45%, the United States 22.68%, and Canada 22.5%. New Zealand's market was hit especially hard, falling about 60% from its 1987 peak, and taking several years to recover.[2] (The terms Black Monday and Black Tuesday are also applied to October 28 and 29, 1929, which occurred after Black Thursday on October 24, which started the Stock Market Crash of 1929. In Australia and New Zealand the 1987 crash is also referred to as Black Tuesday because of the timezone difference.) The Black Monday decline was the largest one-day percentage decline in the Dow Jones. (Saturday, December 12, 1914, is sometimes erroneously cited as the largest one-day percentage decline of the DJIA.[3][4] In reality, the ostensible decline of 24.39% was created retroactively by a redefinition of the DJIA in 1916.[5][6])
Following the stock market crash, a group of 33 eminent economists from various nations met in Washington, D.C. in December 1987, and collectively predicted that “the next few years could be the most troubled since the 1930s”.[7] However, the DJIA was positive for the 1987 calendar year. It opened on January 2, 1987 at 1,897 points and closed on December 31, 1987 at 1,939 points. The DJIA did not regain its August 25, 1987 closing high of 2,722 points until almost two years later. Look at the chart below (Link)
[]http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/silver/880798.pdf0 This was caused by overpricing and not having silver or gold backing the dollar. When we no longer have to prove the true worth of something, overpricing, driven by greed is inevitable, If you dare look at history and you will see it.

Last edited by firemax; 02-06-2013 at 09:39..
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:41   #44
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I disagree with the OP. the free market system works. It only fails when people start screwing with how it works.

The OP has this matter backwards. A large group of people are a high-strung, panicky, mostly mindless creature. If spooked it will stampede, just like a herd of cattle. Well, that shooting started a stampede. A stampede of panic-buying. What reins in a buying stampede? Well, higher prices do, don't they? How long do you think the buying trend would continue unchecked if the prices didn't rise?

Do people make money in the process? Damned straight. The people who had the resources and initiative and maybe the luck to make some money will do so. They spend the time and they take the risk. If they are wrong, if the bubble breaks, if they are unlucky, they lose. No one will help them recover from their loss. They took their chances. If they succeed, if they find a product and willing customers, they make money. That is how the system works. Buyers drive the market, not sellers.

Price gouging usually refers to profiteering on life-sustaining commodities, like food, medicine, fuel, etc. It may be argued that guns may be used to save lives, but they do not fall into that category. What changed between 13 December and 14 December that made it absolutely vital for so many people to have guns and ammo? I am guessing that most people who think about such things, thought themselves adequately armed and provisioned on 13 December. A lot of people panicked on 14 December and the run was on, but nothing changed that made more guns and ammo a matter of dire emergency. People stampeded.

This is not a matter of evil profiteers keeping food out of the mouths of babies. It is a matter of some people with some forethought and resourcefulness turning a profit off of a bunch of cattle that have decided they desperately need something they didn't want enough to buy two months ago and in doing so, they help to stop the stampede. The buyers are driving this, folks. Eric
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:43   #45
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:57   #46
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The year was 1987. The subject was silver. People went to prison for it. Why? Figure it out for your self. I can't say it any clearer than i did above.
Huh? I don't believe even the HUNT BROS went to prison. Who went to prison for 1987???

Quote:
Originally Posted by firemax View Post
I was talking about 1987 "Black Friday. The two are connected. Look at the link below. I am well aware of the Hunt Bro's as well as almost everyone is. Black Monday refers to Monday October 19, 1987, when stock markets around the world crashed, shedding a huge value in a very short time. The crash began in Hong Kong and spread west to Europe, hitting the United States after other markets had already declined by a significant margin. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) dropped by 508 points to 1738.74 (22.61%).[1]
By the end of October, stock markets in Hong Kong had fallen 45.5%, Australia 41.8%, Spain 31%, the United Kingdom 26.45%, the United States 22.68%, and Canada 22.5%. New Zealand's market was hit especially hard, falling about 60% from its 1987 peak, and taking several years to recover.[2] (The terms Black Monday and Black Tuesday are also applied to October 28 and 29, 1929, which occurred after Black Thursday on October 24, which started the Stock Market Crash of 1929. In Australia and New Zealand the 1987 crash is also referred to as Black Tuesday because of the timezone difference.) The Black Monday decline was the largest one-day percentage decline in the Dow Jones. (Saturday, December 12, 1914, is sometimes erroneously cited as the largest one-day percentage decline of the DJIA.[3][4] In reality, the ostensible decline of 24.39% was created retroactively by a redefinition of the DJIA in 1916.[5][6])
Following the stock market crash, a group of 33 eminent economists from various nations met in Washington, D.C. in December 1987, and collectively predicted that “the next few years could be the most troubled since the 1930s”.[7] However, the DJIA was positive for the 1987 calendar year. It opened on January 2, 1987 at 1,897 points and closed on December 31, 1987 at 1,939 points. The DJIA did not regain its August 25, 1987 closing high of 2,722 points until almost two years later. Look at the chart below (Link)
[]http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/silver/880798.pdf0 This was caused by overpricing and not having silver or gold backing the dollar. When we no longer have to prove the true worth of something, overpricing, driven by greed is inevitable, If you dare look at history and you will see it.
Where did you C/P that from???? Do you do your own thinking or just read webpages that cater to your paranoid tendencies. Blah blah blah stock market blah blah crash blah blah aaaaand ALIENS, I mean GOLD/SILVER!

(I find it interesting you left the part of the C/P in that stated that if you bought on Jan 1, 1987 and sold on Dec 31, 1987, you MADE MONEY!)


GOUGERS!! F'YEAH!
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:59   #47
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I disagree with the OP. the free market system works. It only fails when people start screwing with how it works.

The OP has this matter backwards. A large group of people are a high-strung, panicky, mostly mindless creature. If spooked it will stampede, just like a herd of cattle. Well, that shooting started a stampede. A stampede of panic-buying. What reins in a buying stampede? Well, higher prices do, don't they? How long do you think the buying trend would continue unchecked if the prices didn't rise?

Do people make money in the process? Damned straight. The people who had the resources and initiative and maybe the luck to make some money will do so. They spend the time and they take the risk. If they are wrong, if the bubble breaks, if they are unlucky, they lose. No one will help them recover from their loss. They took their chances. If they succeed, if they find a product and willing customers, they make money. That is how the system works. Buyers drive the market, not sellers.

Price gouging usually refers to profiteering on life-sustaining commodities, like food, medicine, fuel, etc. It may be argued that guns may be used to save lives, but they do not fall into that category. What changed between 13 December and 14 December that made it absolutely vital for so many people to have guns and ammo? I am guessing that most people who think about such things, thought themselves adequately armed and provisioned on 13 December. A lot of people panicked on 14 December and the run was on, but nothing changed that made more guns and ammo a matter of dire emergency. People stampeded.

This is not a matter of evil profiteers keeping food out of the mouths of babies. It is a matter of some people with some forethought and resourcefulness turning a profit off of a bunch of cattle that have decided they desperately need something they didn't want enough to buy two months ago and in doing so, they help to stop the stampede. The buyers are driving this, folks. Eric
You gotta be kidding me. You can't believe what you just posted. Am I right in thinking" this guy has gotta be a gouger and has a guilt complex"??? Notice the ??? I am just observing and guessing, no judgement.

Last edited by firemax; 02-06-2013 at 10:00..
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:00   #48
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You gotta be kidding me. You can't believe what you just posted. Am I right in thinking" this guy has gotta be a gouger and has a guilt complex??? Notice the ??? I am just observing and guessing, no judgement.




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Old 02-06-2013, 10:15   #49
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You gotta be kidding me. You can't believe what you just posted. Am I right in thinking" this guy has gotta be a gouger and has a guilt complex"??? Notice the ??? I am just observing and guessing, no judgement.

Am I a price gouger? No. I wouldn't even be a price gouger if your wrong-headed meaning of the term were correct. I don't have a dog in this hunt. It says a lot about you though that your first impulse was to insult me and assume I must be doing something wrong. No judgement, indeed.

I believe what I said and I think you are absolutely, completely wrong. There are plenty of people like you out there nursing sour grapes because of the current situation and you all feel the need to blame someone. Well, blame the people clambering over each other to buy buy buy. Blame human nature. Blame yourself for not already acquiring whatever it is you think is so damned important for you to own now now now.

I will say again that the buyers are driving this bus, not the sellers. That is a fact. If buyers did not want to buy at the price the sellers are asking, they have the option of simply walking away. Doing so would make the sellers adjust their prices downward. The free market system works. Sitting around *****ing about it and Human nature won't change anything. Eric
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:33   #50
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All gougers are opportunistic scum hurting this country by driving up prices, and selling their soul for money. You are in trouble if and when the stuff hits the fan. In your twisted mind it is ok to get yours and screw everyone else. I know you are not able to see this but it is not free enterprise. Free enterprise is not driven by greedy parasites but created by the hard work and risk of true business people who contribute to the economy. They create jobs for other people not take an advantage for money without hurting others. Gougers are kinda like a drug pusher but you can't get arrested for it. As for sour grapes, I have none. I do Very well as I stated I retired at age 54. I just love this country and hate the things people do without caring about the welfare of others and calling that conservative enterprise. It is not a conservative position to "Get mine at any cost to everyone else" It is about keeping our freedoms and preserving the constitution. I am not the enemy, I'm just saying think about it from another perspective and don't get offended at my opinion. Usually people get offended if the shoe fits. I am not offended at what anyone thinks about me or how I look at this subject. I expected this kind of response. Some people attack out of instinct to being offended. Others simply state their opinion without character attacks on someone they never even met. You may like me and just disagree with me on this one and only point. I would venture to guess that you and I agree on most other things.

Last edited by firemax; 02-06-2013 at 10:48..
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