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Old 02-06-2013, 14:25   #151
Cavalry Doc
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
No it isn't, it's your intentional attempt to misrepresent other peoples arguments. All in all as an attempt to slither away from other dishonest and error filled statements that you make that you don't want to defend or explain. You're just a dishonest person Cav-Pa. Face it.



No one is upset. We are all calmly illustrating how much of a liar you are.

Hope that sandwich isn't on white or imitation wheat bread. That enriched white flour is poison for your body. Sure you knew that being in the medical field. I'm having freshly pureed Oranges, strawberries, watermelon, ruby red grapefruit, cucumbers, parsley, cabbage, and carrots for lunch. So many wonderful vitamins, minerals, and healthy enzymes and acids.
Be careful with the grapefruit. Lots of food to drug interactions.

Not a complete list, consult a professional.
Quote:
The following drugs are affected by CYP3A4 inhibition with grapefruit compounds:

The benzodiazepines triazolam (Halcion), orally administered midazolam (Versed), orally administered triazepam (Mogodon), diazepam (Valium), alprazolam (Xanax) and quazepam[4]
ritonavir (Norvir) inhibits CYP3A4 preventing the metabolism of protease inhibitors[5]
sertraline (Zoloft and Lustral)[6]

Additional drugs found to be affected by grapefruit juice include, but are not limited to:

Some statins such as atorvastatin (Lipitor), lovastatin (Mevacor), and simvastatin (Zocor, Simlup, Simcor, Simvacor) but not Pravastatin (Pravachol), fluvastatin (Lescol) or rosuvastatin (Crestor) which are unaffected by grapefruit.[7][8]
Dihydropyridines including felodipine (Plendil), nicardipine (Cardene), nifedipine, nisoldipine (Sular), nitrendipine (Bayotensin)[7]
losartan (Cozaar)[7]
The cough suppressant dextromethorphan[citation needed]
modafinil (Provigil, Alertec, Modavigil, Modalert, Modiodal, Modafinilo, Carim, Vigia)[citation needed]
repaglinide (Prandin)[7]
verapamil (Calan SR, Covera HS, Isoptin SR, Verelan)[7]
buspirone (Buspar) Grapefruit juice increased peak and AUC plasma concentrations of buspirone 4.3- and 9.2-fold, respectively, in a randomized, 2-phase, ten-subject crossover study. [9]
levothyroxine (Eltroxin, Levoxyl, Synthroid) Effects of grapefruit juice on the absorption of levothyroxine. [10]
Antiarrhythmics including amiodarone (Cordarone), dronedarone (Multaq), quinidine (Quinidex, Cardioquin, Quinora), disopyramide (Norpace), propafenone (Rhythmol), and carvedilol (Coreg)[7]
Antihistamines astemizole (Hismanal) and terfenadine (Seldane) - now removed from the US and Canadian markets[citation needed]
cisapride (Prepuslid, Propulsid) (which treats GERD) - now removed from the US and Canadian markets[citation needed]
Erectile dysfunction drugs sildenafil (Viagra), tadalafil (Cialis), and vardenafil (Levitra)[7][11]
The anti-migraine drugs ergotamine (Cafergot, Ergomar), amitryptiline (Elavil, Endep, Vanatrip) and nimodipine (Nimotop)[7]
Fluvoxamine (Luvox, Faverin, Fevarin and Dumyrox)[12]
Codeine and Tramadol.[13] It reduces the amount of codeine converted by CYP3A4 into norcodeine thus increasing the amount metabolized into morphine.[citation needed] Morphine itself, however, is not affected by grapefruit juice, as it is not metabolized by the cytochrome P450 system.
Cyclosporine (Neoral). Blood levels of cyclosporine are increased if taken with grapefruit juice. A plausible mechanism involves the combined inhibition of enteric CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein, which potentially leads to serious adverse events (e.g., nephrotoxicity).Blood levels of tacrolimus (Prograf) can also be equally affected for the same reason as with cyclosporine. [both drugs are calcineurin inhibitors][14]
omeprazole (Losec, Prilosec)[citation needed]
zolpidem (Ambien) Little or no interaction with grapefruit juice.[15]
oxycodone (Oxycodone is metabolized by the cytochrome P450 system, specifically CYP3A4, of which the bergamottin flavonoid is a strong inhibitor)[16]
hydrocodone (The hepatic cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP2D6 converts it into hydromorphone, a more potent opioid.)[citation needed]
dihydrocodeine[citation needed]
quetiapine (Seroquel)[17]
methadone Inhibits the metabolism of methadone and raises serum levels.[18]
buprenorphine Metabolized into norbuprenorphine by cytochrome-P450 isoenzyme 3A4[19]
Tyrosine kinase inhibitors, including imatinib (Gleevec) and nilotinib (Tasigna), used to treat chronic myelogenous leukemia and gastrointestinal stromal tumors.[citation needed]
trazodone (Desyrel) Little or no interaction with grapefruit juice.[15]
Anthelmintics (Used for treating certain parasitic infections, includes praziquantel albendazole and mebendazole)[citation needed]
carbamazepine (Tegretol) Grapefruit or grapefruit juice slows the breakdown of this drug, increasing the level of it in blood[citation needed]
imatinib (Gleevec) Although no formal studies with imatinib and grapefruit juice have been conducted, the fact that grapefruit juice is a known inhibitor of the CYP 3A4, suggests that co-administration may lead to increased imatinib plasma concentrations. Likewise, although no formal studies were conducted, co-administration of imatinib with another specific type of citrus juice called Seville orange juice (SOJ) may lead to increased imatinib plasma concentrations via inhibition of the CYP3A isoenzymes. Seville orange juice is not usually consumed as a juice because of its sour taste, but it is found in marmalade and other jams. Seville orange juice has been reported to be a possible inhibitor of CYP3A enzymes without affecting P-glycoprotein when taken concomitantly with cyclosporine.[20]
Loperamide (Imodium)[citation needed]
colchicine (Colcrys)[citation needed]
erlotinib (Tarceva) [21]
In a mouse study, blood concentrations of acetaminophen/paracetamol (Tylenol) were found to be increased by white and pink grapefruit juice, with the white juice acting faster.[22]
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:26   #152
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Just because I think of atheism as a religion, and of you as a devout follower of it, if not almost clergy, is no big deal. It does neither of of us any harm at all for me to have that opinion. I'm at peace with that.


That opinion of yours has nothing more to do with the point at hand now than it has for the past 60 posts. We aren't talking about whether atheism is a religion. We haven't been for awhile. That you keep substituting that in place of the actual topic is the true charade.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:26   #153
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
"Real science neither proves nor disproves whether a deity has existed or not."

At least no yet it hasn't. That is a true statement. If you think otherwise, please explain.
No one has suggested that it isn't. But that's not the point you've been making. You claimed that math doesn't support what we know about the BBT. This is horribly incorrect. So you either are being intentionally dishonest or you simply don't know what you're talking about. Which is it? We aren't letting you change the subject or slither away.

Quote:
there are those that are faithful that has never been a deity.
Please illustrate this argument. I'd like to see a quote of someone saying they have faith that there is no God.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:28   #154
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Be careful with the grapefruit. Lots of food to drug interactions.

Not a complete list, consult a professional.
Doesn't matter, I'm on no drugs. Never experienced an allergy or bad interactions with food either.

Care to answer any questions posed to you so far or are you going to continue to slither?

Last edited by Glock36shooter; 02-06-2013 at 14:29..
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:28   #155
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Originally Posted by void * View Post
Avoid, avoid, avoid, CD - because that's integrity, right?



Please either

a) Admit that I have never claimed that science proves or disproves a deity
or
b) Provide some kind of proof to back up your claim that I have somehow claimed science proves or disproves a deity
or
c) Continue your avoidance tactics.

Anyone want to lay bets against c?
You are hung up on this bad, aren't you.

How about this, I'll just come right out and ask you, and then take you at your word.

Do you believe that the scientific knowledge of all of humanity proves or disproves whether or not a deity has or has not existed?

Whatever your answer, I'll believe that is your answer.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:31   #156
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Please illustrate this argument. I'd like to see a quote of someone saying they have faith that there is no God.
Careful, he is getting closer to successfully reframing the debate.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:32   #157
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
No one has suggested that it isn't. But that's not the point you've been making. You claimed that math doesn't support what we know about the BBT. This is horribly incorrect. So you either are being intentionally dishonest or you simply don't know what you're talking about. Which is it? We aren't letting you change the subject or slither away.



Please illustrate this argument. I'd like to see a quote of someone saying they have faith that there is no God.
Actually, I've been saying that the BBT is not yet fully explained, not by math, not by theory, which is why real scientists are still looking into it, and maybe considering slightly or radically different answers. Big chill? Another Universe? String Theory?

It's not a complete package just yet.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-06-2013 at 14:32..
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:33   #158
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
You are hung up on this bad, aren't you.

How about this, I'll just come right out and ask you, and then take you at your word.

Do you believe that the scientific knowledge of all of humanity proves or disproves whether or not a deity has or has not existed?

Whatever your answer, I'll believe that is your answer.
No you won't... I told you several times I don't do drugs and yet you STILL make veiled implications that I am.

Dishonesty is a part of your nature.

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Old 02-06-2013, 14:33   #159
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
...Do you believe that the scientific knowledge of all of humanity proves or disproves whether or not a deity has or has not existed?...
No, I don't feel that it disproves the existence of dieties. It certainly doesn't provide any evidence FOR them existing, though.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:33   #160
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Careful, he is getting closer to successfully reframing the debate.
Yeah, didn't you claim to have proven there is no deity?

Thanks for the reminder.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:34   #161
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No, I don't feel that it disproves the existence of dieties. It certainly doesn't provide any evidence FOR them existing, though.
And we have a winner.

That's how I landed in the middle of the "Is there a god" question. Some answered yes, some answered no, I answered maybe.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:37   #162
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Actually, I've been saying that the BBT is not yet fully explained, not by math, not by theory, which is why real scientists are still looking into it, and maybe considering slightly or radically different answers. Big chill? Another Universe? String Theory?

It's not a complete package just yet.
That's not what you've been saying. You said...


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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
From what we can really tell, the universe is expanding, and it probably used to be hotter. Any detailed description of what is causing that is not proven by math.
This is incorrect.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:40   #163
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Yeah, didn't you claim to have proven there is no deity?

Thanks for the reminder.
You still haven't addressed this...

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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that they are mostly speculating (as opposed to testing theories empirically without bias)? If your answer is yes then are you sure that it is actual evidence and not just personal opinion?

You are dealing in theoritical interpretations, not actual theories. Interpretations are just analogies we use to make the theories seem more sensical to us. The theories themselves are pure, dispassionate math that is either right or wrong. The math makes predictions about the nature of the universe that can either be confirmed or falsified through empirical testing. We perform these empirical tests to collect the data to see if the theory is valid. That is true evidence in its purest form.

For instance, the Standard Model of elementary particle physics predicted a specific mass for the theorized Higgs Boson particle at a given energy level. We built CERN to carry out that actual measurement and sure enough, it was found right where the Standard Model predicted. That is actual evidence and that is how actual science works.

That is not what you are doing. You are throwing around emmotion, opinion and speculation with the complete absence of any evidence. Which is all you have ever done in this forum. You don't think a specific theory is valid? Fine, let's see your data. Because I have actually looked at the data (evidence) in favor of the Lambda CDM model (aka Big Bang) and found it quite compelling.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:42   #164
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Actually, I've been saying that the BBT is not yet fully explained, not by math, not by theory, which is why real scientists are still looking into it, and maybe considering slightly or radically different answers. Big chill? Another Universe? String Theory?

It's not a complete package just yet.
So after about 70 posts you feel comfortable in restating this falsehood again as if I had not challenged you on it pages ago. The fact that you list all of those as alternate explanations further illustrates your shallow "popular media" level of understanding of these issues. Those theories are complimentary, not contradictory.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 02-06-2013 at 14:46..
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:42   #165
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
You are hung up on this bad, aren't you.
No, actually - I'm just curious as to how long you'll avoid admitting you made an accusation you can't back up with evidence. You're *still* avoiding that. My bet is you'll avoid it forever. Would you care to prove me wrong?

if so
Please
a) Provide evidence I've ever claimed that science can prove the existence or nonexistence of a deity (which would disprove the 'can't back up with evidence' portion, taking your statement out of contention for being a statement made without evidence)
or
b) Admit you made an accusation you have no evidence for (Which would disprove the 'will avoid admitting it' portion, by simply admitting it)
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Last edited by void *; 02-06-2013 at 14:53..
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:43   #166
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You still haven't addressed this...
Nor has he addressed this.

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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Just so everyone is clear, this is the lagrangian for the Lambda-CDM model of the early universe (aka "Big Bang" theory). This is the actual theory. Terms like "dark matter" and "cosmic inflation" are simply part of a plain english interpretation of the predicted results that arise from solving this function.

Religious Issues
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:45   #167
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
And we have a winner.

That's how I landed in the middle of the "Is there a god" question. Some answered yes, some answered no, I answered maybe.
The question: "Do you believe in God/gods?" cannot have an answer of maybe.

Do you believe God or gods exist?
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:49   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
That's not what you've been saying. You said...




This is incorrect.
And you are unaware of any point in the BBT that is not explained by the math?

Quote:
As there presently exists no widely accepted framework for how to combine quantum mechanics with relativistic gravity, science is not currently able to make predictions about events occurring over intervals shorter than the Planck time or distances shorter than one Planck length, the distance light travels in one Planck time—about 1.616 × 10−35 meters.

How was the fuse lit on the big bang? Really, was it even a bang, or a chill?

And you see no questions left to answer? Really?
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:50   #169
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Originally Posted by void * View Post
No, actually - I'm just curious as to how long you'll avoid admitting you made an accusation you can't back up with evidence. You're *still* avoiding that. My bet is you'll avoid it forever. Would you care to prove me wrong?

if so
Please
a) Provide evidence I've ever claimed that science can prove the existence or nonexistence of a deity (which would disprove the 'can't back up with evidence' portion, taking your statement out of contention of statements made without evidence)
or
b) Admit you made an accusation you have no evidence for (Which would disprove the 'will avoid admitting it' portion, by simply admitting it)
Void, you tend to have an unnatural attachment to certain perceived details.

Have I not simply asked, and stated I would accept your answer?

Quit dodging the question.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:55   #170
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
And you are unaware of any point in the BBT that is not explained by the math?




How was the fuse lit on the big bang? Really, was it even a bang, or a chill?

And you see no questions left to answer? Really?
You are continuing to misrepresent the argument. No one is claiming that our knowledge of the BBT is complete or absolute. You claimed that there is no math to illustrate elements of the BBT that there absolutely ARE. And the fact that you keep trying to drag the argument in to one of the BBT being final and absolutely explored only illustrates that you INTENTIONALLY being dishonest. Your usual MO.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:56   #171
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Void, you tend to have an unnatural attachment to certain perceived details.

Have I not simply asked, and stated I would accept your answer?

Quit dodging the question.
And here he attempts to avoid yet again.

I am not the one dodging the question. You know (or *should* know) well that I have stated multiple times that I do not think that it is possible to prove or disprove the existence of a creator.

I have asked you to:

a) Provide evidence that I have ever claimed otherwise
or
b) Admit you made that accusation without evidence.

So far you have done nothing other than avoid doing either, and now you are adding on an attempt to claim it's me avoiding a question.

So again,
a) Provide evidence that I have ever claimed otherwise
b) Admit you made that accusation without evidence.

You claimed integrity is key in another thread, did you not?
If so, which has more integrity - Claiming that I'm avoiding a question so you can avoid doing one of the above - or simply admitting you made the accusation without evidence and, you know, hey, your bad?
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Last edited by void *; 02-06-2013 at 15:16..
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:57   #172
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Void, you tend to have an unnatural attachment to certain perceived details.

Have I not simply asked, and stated I would accept your answer?

Quit dodging the question.
You are unbelievable. He's dodging a question? You act like a child do you know that? You've done nothing but run around the thread dodging one question after the next.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:02   #173
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
And you are unaware of any point in the BBT that is not explained by the math?

How was the fuse lit on the big bang? Really, was it even a bang, or a chill?

And you see no questions left to answer? Really?
Is that what you are harping over? That the Lambda-CDM model doesn't cover an area it never claimed to cover? Really? Lambda-CDM is a theory about how the universe developed, not how it began. You do realize that there are other theories and models that do cover how "the fuse lit on the big bang"? Like cosmic inflation and the ekpyrotic model. In much the same way as abiogenesis covers how life began and evolution covers how it developed, these other theories cover how the universe began and Lambda-CDM covers how it developed.

You've been reading to many back issues of Omni again. Lambda-CDM is not and has never been intended to be the be all and end all explanation for eveything. It is only one of a set of theories that explains why the universe is the way it is today.
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CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:03   #174
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Quit dodging the question.
Please address the following...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that they are mostly speculating (as opposed to testing theories empirically without bias)? If your answer is yes then are you sure that it is actual evidence and not just personal opinion?

You are dealing in theoritical interpretations, not actual theories. Interpretations are just analogies we use to make the theories seem more sensical to us. The theories themselves are pure, dispassionate math that is either right or wrong. The math makes predictions about the nature of the universe that can either be confirmed or falsified through empirical testing. We perform these empirical tests to collect the data to see if the theory is valid. That is true evidence in its purest form.

For instance, the Standard Model of elementary particle physics predicted a specific mass for the theorized Higgs Boson particle at a given energy level. We built CERN to carry out that actual measurement and sure enough, it was found right where the Standard Model predicted. That is actual evidence and that is how actual science works.

That is not what you are doing. You are throwing around emmotion, opinion and speculation with the complete absence of any evidence. Which is all you have ever done in this forum. You don't think a specific theory is valid? Fine, let's see your data. Because I have actually looked at the data (evidence) in favor of the Lambda CDM model (aka Big Bang) and found it quite compelling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
This is just plain wrong.

Just so everyone is clear, this is the lagrangian for the Lambda-CDM model of the early universe (aka "Big Bang" theory). This is the actual theory. Terms like "dark matter" and "cosmic inflation" are simply part of a plain english interpretation of the predicted results that arise from solving this function.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
It does not answer the questions.

Was your intent with that statement to imply that the BBT is not real science?

If not, why did you even make that statement when the subject under discussion was the BBT?

Furthermore, can you admit that I never claimed that the BBT, or any scientific theory, is disproof of the existence of a deity? Can you publicly admit that the accusation you made was wrong, or not? Remember, integrity.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:15   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Please address the following...
Just because you asked, I'll answer.



No.

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