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Old 02-07-2013, 23:27   #321
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Lol. Ended fascism? Ended slavery? Communism? None of those things are ended. There are fascists all over the world, hell 99% of the US government is a nice blend of fascists and communists. You're a fascist, with your nuclear fantasies, nuke the water plants, melt the womens' eyes out, all that insanity you love to talk about. And anyway, neither I nor RP are pacifists. Let's use some nukes before their expiration date, LOL. You guys are ******* nuts.
The U.S. today is basically a Fascist nation. It really isn't even debatable anymore. A few more clicks and we're there. Will war end us?
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Old 02-07-2013, 23:35   #322
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Seeing a lot of this here.

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Old 02-07-2013, 23:49   #323
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The U.S. today is basically a Fascist nation. It really isn't even debatable anymore. A few more clicks and we're there. Will war end us?
Financially, maybe.


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Old 02-07-2013, 23:51   #324
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Lol. Ended fascism? Ended slavery? Communism? None of those things are ended. There are fascists all over the world, hell 99% of the US government is a nice blend of fascists and communists. You're a fascist, with your nuclear fantasies, nuke the water plants, melt the womens' eyes out, all that insanity you love to talk about. And anyway, neither I nor RP are pacifists. Let's use some nukes before their expiration date, LOL. You guys are ******* nuts.
Don't forget, war wasn't needed to end slavery in most countries.
quan lot nam cao cap do ngu nu do dung cho me truoc sau sinh vay lien cong so nu ban buon cho thue trang phuc da hoi
And what about WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles, maybe that had something to do with the rise of the nazis.
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The constitution is not, nor was it meant to be absolutely literal.
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Old 02-07-2013, 23:53   #325
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Financially, maybe.


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You know what's funny, I've been trading oil. Today I commented to my partner that I now understand why the middle east is perpetually unstable and why wars are fought because I would have liked to see one start in the ME about 11am today.
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Old 02-07-2013, 23:53   #326
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I agree with everything you say about Gunhaver, make no mistake. However, Paul has a point in that an expansive foreign policy led to a decade of war and ultimately to Kyle's murder.

Oil keeps us meddling in the affairs of the middle east. That creates enemies. An enemy attacked us and it led to a decade of war. Kyle was a hero protecting his fellow soldiers. The war apparently destroyed the mental health of Kyle's murderer.

I think some here are eager to misread Paul's comments out of prejudice toward him and his views on liberty and foreign policy. There has long been a willingness here on GT to knowingly misrepresent them.

Paul's initial comments were poorly chosen. I suspect if he were to speak at length on the subject his intent would be apparent. His followup comments were pretty accurate. Under Ron Paul foreign policy, Chris Kyle would be alive today but you probably wouldn't know his name.
I think Paul was very off in the last week or so. I also think we could have saved TONS of money if we were energy independent. The Japanese model showed us how to change a bloodthirsty warrior society with a deity as a leader into a bunch of polite businessmen. Cheap and effective aren't necessarily opposing forces. Too cheap on foreign policy might end up costing more in the future.

It's all a gamble. I think it's sad, but I don't believe a Ron Paul foreign policy is realistically possible of success. You can have twice the submarines we have now, and we would still be vulnerable to the ill will of others, simply by existing.

Trust me in this one thing, because I promise you it is true to a level that most will never realize. No one hopes for peace more than a warrior.
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Old 02-07-2013, 23:53   #327
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Don't forget, war wasn't needed to end slavery in most countries.

And what about WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles, maybe that had something to do with the rise of the nazis.
Has any other place fought a war to end slavery?


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Old 02-07-2013, 23:59   #328
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Has any other place fought a war to end slavery?
I honestly don't know. If so, it was rare.
do boi cao cap quan ao nam chan goi so sinh cho be vay cong so nu vay cong so nu chup anh da ngoai dep nhat
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Old 02-08-2013, 00:04   #329
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Lol. Ended fascism? Ended slavery? Communism? None of those things are ended. There are fascists all over the world, hell 99% of the US government is a nice blend of fascists and communists. You're a fascist, with your nuclear fantasies, nuke the water plants, melt the womens' eyes out, all that insanity you love to talk about. And anyway, neither I nor RP are pacifists. Let's use some nukes before their expiration date, LOL. You guys are ******* nuts.
You need to get around more. In certain places, they have ended.

I'm not really proposing using nukes. But that is war on the cheap. No war would be preferential, but in human history, conflict will happen. It is inevitable. Some cultures are jealous, some cultures are charged by their own predicted destiny to rule the world. You can't be nice enough to avoid conflict with that without surrendering every liberty the constitution protects.

Like it or not, peace is a laudable goal that we should constantly reach for, work toward, and strive to protect, and one that we will never achieve. Human nature will not allow it to exist except for short periods of time. When bitten by an animal, petting it back does not always allow you to keep your hands, let alone survive. Even petting it first doesn't always preclude the initial bite.
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Old 02-08-2013, 00:08   #330
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Has any other place fought a war to end slavery?


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Ever hear of Spartacus?

Not all were successful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_rebellion
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Old 02-08-2013, 00:11   #331
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Don't forget, war wasn't needed to end slavery in most countries.

And what about WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles, maybe that had something to do with the rise of the nazis.
If you use the model of WWI and WWII, beating your enemy back to the point of a cease fire vs. unconditional seems to be the difference.
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Old 02-08-2013, 00:17   #332
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If you use the model of WWI and WWII, beating your enemy back to the point of a cease fire vs. unconditional seems to be the difference.
Though I know more about the wars then the average person, I must admit there is more I could learn about them.
do boi dep quan ao thoi trang dep chan goi so sinh vay cong so vay cong so chup anh da ngoai
Weren't they both effectively unconditional?
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Old 02-08-2013, 00:33   #333
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Though I know more about the wars then the average person, I must admit there is more I could learn about them.

Weren't they both effectively unconditional?
The Armistice signed on 11 Nov 1918 ended the fighting, the Treaty of Versailles was signed about 6 months later after many negotiations. It was violated many times. The league of nations wasn't all that effective in stopping that, much like the UN today. Occupation was limited to 15 years.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:18   #334
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Occupation for 15 years and reparations that could almost never be repaid, sounds effectively unconditional to me. shop thoi trang quan ao thoi trang han quoc quan ao so sinh cho be vest cong so vest cong so chup anh cuoi o ha noi
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:36   #335
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You're a neocon-type. You don't like Paul's pro-liberty views. I get it.
That's the problem, you don't get it. There's more to being pro-liberty than simply being pro-dope. Throw away that crutch and you'll be surprized what all it entails.

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Fundamentally all Paul wants to do is leave these "arabs" alone.
Who are you trying to kid...? Fundamentally, all RP wanted from the Arabs was campaign contributions, and his Arab supporters wanted a "Blame America First" candidate. In the context of "politics makes strange bedfellows", it was match made in heaven.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:59   #336
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Occupation for 15 years and reparations that could almost never be repaid, sounds effectively unconditional to me.
At the time, many thought it to harsh and many thought it too weak at the same time. In retrospect, it didn't work out so well.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:05   #337
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That's the problem, you don't get it. There's more to being pro-liberty than simply being pro-dope. Throw away that crutch and you'll be surprized what all it entails.



Who are you trying to kid...? Fundamentally, all RP wanted from the Arabs was campaign contributions, and his Arab supporters wanted a "Blame America First" candidate. In the context of "politics makes strange bedfellows", it was match made in heaven.
I've come to respect CF, he's not one of the pothead college kids for Ron. He was strictly on the liberty side of things, and not an extremist on the foreign policy thing. Not my place to say this, but since I've already but my nose in, you all should listen to one another, you agree more than you think you do.

I'm about as pro military as they come, but the DoD could use an overhaul, it could be smaller, leaner and more lethal at the same time. We are broke. We can't do nation building anymore. We can have carrier groups out there, air superiority fighters, and very well trained and equipped ground forces. The next fight we get into though, we should just destroy them in place and leave them, let the neighbors pick the carcass clean.
It's not as nice, but it is cheaper.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:35   #338
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Clear on that, Doc. Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:16   #339
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The U.S. today is basically a Fascist nation. It really isn't even debatable anymore. A few more clicks and we're there. Will war end us?
The pieces are being assembled, no doubt. And at such a pace, and with such small steps, so as not to startle the majority. I don't know if we're almost there or not, but I personally believe we passed the midway marker.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:17   #340
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Seeing a lot of this here.

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That's funny right there!
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