[Skyhook]

Could this indicate a lack of discipline, training, common sense- what?

Sure they are 'on edge, who can blame them, but shooting newspaper delivery women?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...omen-shot.html

[barbedwiresmile]

I'm sure there is a perfectly rational explanation for this. And it
probably involves the delivery woman not following the officer's instructions.

[Bren]

I usually side with the police, but it's mainly because the people who post about them here know so little about law/police/crime/etc. that their comments and conclusions are silly.

In this case, what the police did was stupid. I can't see any excuse for it and it smells like panic.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile

I'm sure there is a perfectly rational explanation for this. And it
probably involves the delivery woman not following the officer's instructions.

If you don't do what the police say, they will kill you?

Seems ok if you are a murderer or pointing a gun at the police. But is a bit extreme if you are a non-criminal and just not real good at following directions.

___________
I joined the NRA, have you yet?

[Skyhook]

Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile

I'm sure there is a perfectly rational explanation for this. And it
probably involves the delivery woman not following the officer's instructions.

If 'not following officer's instructions' would justify shooting, wouldn't there be lots more dead perps and fewer chases/evasions?

[Fear Night]

I hope they sue the living crap out of the LAPD.

[Skyhook]

Interesting parallel event-- only the citizen knew those creatures were law breakers. I wonder how both incidents will play out?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/08...est=latestnews

SALT LAKE CITY – Residents in a northern Utah city are coming to the defense of a man who was arrested and faces charges for shooting at burglars as they drove away from his property.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/08...#ixzz2KJLxRiyf

[Razorsharp]

Originally Posted by Bren

In this case, what the police did was stupid. I can't see any excuse for it and it smells like panic.

And those involved should lose their job. Not put on leave, but dismissed.

And I'll add, incarceration could be warranted.

[Dukeboy01]

Looks pretty bad. The truck's not even the right make and model. The article identifies the suspect's truck as a Nissan Titan and the truck shot to pieces in the photo is a Toyota Tacoma.

[pipedreams]

Originally Posted by Bren

In this case, what the police did was stupid. I can't see any excuse for it and it smells like panic.

This.............. What happens to a citizen if they panic and shoot the wrong person. The driver may never heard the police command if they had the windows up and the radio on.

[Chuck TX]

CHA-Ching!

Somebody is about to come in to some new found wealth.

[Deployment Solu]

Bad deal all around.

[W420Hunter]

Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile

I'm sure there is a perfectly rational explanation for this. And it
probably involves the delivery woman not following the officer's instructions.

So are you really trying to tell me both shootings where caused by the victim not following orders?

[maxsnafu]

Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer

If you don't do what the police say, they will kill you?

Seems ok if you are a murderer or pointing a gun at the police. But is a bit extreme if you are a non-criminal and just not real good at following directions.

___________
I joined the NRA, have you yet?

...especially if you're not real good at following directions because you're part of our gorgeous multicultural mosaic and speak no English.

[tslex]

BOLO is for a black male with a shaved head, 6-3, 270 pounds, in a dark colored 2005 Nisan Titan.

This truck (note model and color) contained two women.

Yeah. Light it up!

::::

[pugman]

Originally Posted by pipedreams

This.............. What happens to a citizen if they panic and shoot the wrong person. The driver may never heard the police command if they had the windows up and the radio on.

Originally Posted by Bren

I usually side with the police, but it's mainly because the people who post about them here know so little about law/police/crime/etc. that their comments and conclusions are silly.

In this case, what the police did was stupid. I can't see any excuse for it and it smells like panic.

This.

Look at the shots. The driver's side rear tire appears flat with a shot through the mud flap; I count 17 shots into the tailgate. If they are shooting high caps...34-36 rounds max between the two of them with just a little less than half into the bed?

I also see at least three shotgun shells on the ground which could account for the holes; but the distance appear to be what maybe 20 feet. I'm assuming they use some sort of LEO low recoil buck which generally has a low spread at those distances.

[tslex]

Originally Posted by W420Hunter

So are you really trying to tell me both shootings where caused by the victim not following orders?

Hunter, I think your "understanding" of BWS' post may be an indication that your computer doesn't register the sarcasm font.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by pugman

This.

Look at the shots. The driver's side rear tire appears flat with a shot through the mud flap; I count 17 shots into the tailgate. If they are shooting high caps...34-36 rounds max between the two of them with just a little less than half into the bed?

I also see at least three shotgun shells on the ground which could account for the holes; but the distance appear to be what maybe 20 feet. I'm assuming they use some sort of LEO low recoil buck which generally has a low spread at those distances.

Good eye on the shotgun shells. I was wondering about the larger holes, like the top right (passenger side) of that back windshield. Either a good group, or a strange break, or maybe caused by the shotgun?

___________
I joined the NRA, have you yet?

[Mrs. VR]

Ok, I'm allowing this for the moment, because this is a huge story and people are (rightfully) concerned and have questions and want to discuss. *however* the moment any of these threads turn into a " let's bash cops"-fest,I'm going to shut it down. That's not, and never has been, acceptable here. Again, I'll ask you to check yourselves.

[blk69stang]

Smacks of "street justice" gone wrong. Having recently been in the exact same situation as the officers involved (fellow agent shot and killed, I was involved in searching for the killer at large) I can personally attest that the temptation to just twitch that trigger finger when you have a bead on the suspected killer is immense, but you have to keep your wits about you. You can't just go "vigilante", because sometimes you don't have all the information, and it IS possible that someone could just be in the "wrong place at the wrong time".

Not saying this is what happened here, just saying it sure doesn't look good for the officers involved.

[RussP]

For all those with comments and suggestions on this incident, here is the LAPD email contact: contact.lapdonline@gmail.com

If you'd like to express your concerns using social media, this page lists the different Facebook pages for the department: Social Media

Let your voices be heard where it will actually be heard by people involved and with the authority to carry out some of your suggestions.

[RussP]

Originally Posted by blk69stang

Smacks of "street justice" gone wrong. Having recently been in the exact same situation as the officers involved (fellow agent shot and killed, I was involved in searching for the killer at large) I can personally attest that the temptation to just twitch that trigger finger when you have a bead on the suspected killer is immense, but you have to keep your wits about you. You can't just go "vigilante", because sometimes you don't have all the information, and it IS possible that someone could just be in the "wrong place at the wrong time".

Not saying this is what happened here, just saying it sure doesn't look good for the officers involved.

Well said, sir.

[RussP]

Yeah, some of y'all need to go on the LAPD Headquarters Facebook Page and read the comments.

I suggest those in LE avoid the page. Seriously, it isn't worth getting your blood pressure up.

[Glocker Rob]

Originally Posted by RussP

Yeah, some of y'all need to go on the LAPD Headquarters Facebook Page and read the comments.

I suggest those in LE avoid the page. Seriously, it isn't worth getting your blood pressure up.

Its probably nothing like the Los Angeles Times readers comments page, which I read last night. People actively calling for Dorner to kill more, etc.

Playing devil's advocate here, lets go over the chain of events in the day and hours prior to this shooting:

1. The daughter of a well known League (union) Lawyer is killed by a former client who posts a crazy maifesto saying he is going to kill more, and has military training that most officers don't have

2. Protection details are set up. While enroute to a high profile target, two Officers are flagged down on the Suspect and an OIS occurs where the Police Vehicle is turned into swiss cheese, and a fellow LAPD copper is hit.

3. Shortly after, an outside agency unit nearby is ambushed with two officers hit, one killed, the other seriously injured.

You are now protecting another high profile target. You are given a generic description of the vehicle, and a plate that may or may not be right. You see a truck that can match the description, coming right to the target location, lights off. You order it to stop, but it drives right by your roadblock and throws something at the target location.

What would you think? Maybe that you are under attack?

We also don't know if there are any guys helping him out. Based on the comments on the LA Times site, I wouldn't be surprised if there were.

Again, I wasn't there. The entire situation is FUBAR. But there is a lot more going on then what the Media is saying and I am witholding judgement on anyone (both sides, Officers and the women) till all the evidence comes out.

[CranialCrusader]

Originally Posted by blk69stang

...I can personally attest that the temptation to just twitch that trigger finger when you have a bead on the suspected killer is immense, but you have to keep your wits about you...

Yes I think we can all understand that, but you also took one very important step. You identified your target! The officers involved in this shooting did not identify their target, that is what is scariest to me. I can not think of any situation, even full battlefield combat, where it is appropriate to not identify your target. No one is "safe" from these officers.



CranialCrusader