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Old 02-07-2013, 13:57   #21
GAFinch
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Originally Posted by schild View Post
When and who will be the first American citizen killed by a drone on American soil?

My guess is that it will more likely be a pro-gun, pro Bill of Rights Constitutionalist than a member of al Qaeda.
1. This program only applies to groups that Congress has authorized military force against.

2. There's no need to drone strike/air strike people in the U.S. instead of sending in agents/troops in armored vehicles to (try to) arrest them. They didn't send an F-16 to launch a missile at Waco.

3. If they decided that some conservatives were waging an insurrection against the government, they would not need the Patriot Act, NDAA, or some DOJ memo to go after them. Legal ability to go after treason/sedition is well-established. The inevitable public backlash very much keeps this in check.
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Old 02-07-2013, 14:21   #22
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Didn't they also kill his 16 year old from Denver, CO when he went to Yemen to try to find his dad?
Best I remember that was al awlaki's son, and he was in the company of the target, not the target himself.

All good Muslims need to stay away from the bad ones. I recommend a distance twice that of the blast radius of a hellfire.
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Old 02-07-2013, 14:29   #23
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I wonder if maybe there are some drones out there that actually are not owned and operated by the military that might be watching cattle, or pipelines, or whatever.
Impossible, only governments and mad scientists have that texhnology.

[/sarcasm]

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Old 02-07-2013, 14:33   #24
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OK, thousands of Americans have been killed by the U.S. government on American soil. What sort of difference do you think a flying drone makes? The drone is usually for places we can't get them with a gun or something more direct. I don't see anything more significant about using a remote controlled drone than using a .308 vs. a shotgun.
But this would be a [gasp] DRONE don't you get it man? It kills people ten times as dead.

Of course it doesn't leave room for conspiracy theories so maybe there is an upside.
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Old 02-07-2013, 15:39   #25
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The government is good, it will never abuse it's power. It is not corrupt, nor is it filled with criminals.

The government is trying to disarm me and stockpiles a billion rounds of ammo, yet I am fully comfortable with it declaring it can kill me if it thinks I am a terrorist.

If you don't think the government has the right to kill you on a whim, you wear a tinfoil hat, live in a bunker and you are unpatriotic.

Sure, the DHS now declares gun owners, preppers, gold buyers, Constitutionalists, people who respect the founding fathers, and NRA or gun club members "potential domestic terrorist threats" but it will never act on that criteria because the government is good.

I love freedom and small government. But if we COMPROMISE on a few freedoms and give the government more power, we can stop rag tag fighters in a cave thousands of miles away from harming us on American soil.



Cuz this is 'Merica.




Last edited by EOS; 02-07-2013 at 15:41..
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Old 02-07-2013, 16:02   #26
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Oddly I have no issue whatsoever with killing some piece of garbage that is affiliated with those that would hijack an ariliner and crash it into one of our buildings even if he did happen to be born here. I do however have a problem with the legal doctrine that anyone born here is automatically an American, because, quite evidentally, not everyone who is, is.
Oddly I have no issue whatsoever with killing some piece of garbage that is, according to some nameless faceless government bureaucrat, who may or may not have some actual evidence and may have this evidence rubber stamped by some secret kangaroo court, affiliated with those that would hijack an ariliner and crash it into one of our buildings even if he did happen to be born here. I do however have a problem with the legal doctrine that anyone born here is automatically an American, because, quite evidentally, not everyone who is, is worthy of the protection formerly guaranteed under the Bill of Rights.

There! Fixed everything except your typos for you. You are a real credit to Craftsman, you tool.
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Old 02-07-2013, 16:15   #27
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My God, I had no idea!

I'll bet the US government has plans to kill all gun owners in a mass drone attack and blame it on al Qaeda.

Stay away from gun stores and firing ranges.
You just know they've already targeted them and are just waiting to launch.

My own government has plans to kill me.
I'm scared to even go outside now...

..
Well dumb ass your government labeled you a terrorist.
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Old 02-07-2013, 16:54   #28
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Hey, it's not assassination, it's self defense.


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In light of these precedents, the Department believes that the use of lethal force addressed in this white paper would constitute a lawful killing under the public authority doctrine if conducted in a manner consistent with the fundamental law of war principles governing the use of force in a non-international armed conflict. Such an operation would not violate the assassination ban in Executive Order No. 12333. Section 2.11 of Executive Order No. 12333 provides that "[n]o person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination." 46 Fed. Reg. 59,941, 59, 952 (Dec. 4, 1981). A lawful killing in self-defense is not an assassination.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/f...-politics.html
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Old 02-07-2013, 17:17   #29
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Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post

Oddly I have no issue whatsoever with killing some piece of garbage that is affiliated with those that would hijack an ariliner and crash it into one of our buildings even if he did happen to be born here. I do however have a problem with the legal doctrine that anyone born here is automatically an American, because, quite evidentally, not everyone who is, is.
This kind of thinking scares me because the blind unthinking willingness to let someone else decide who gets to die with no judicial oversight or due process.
I hope you dont carry a badge or serve in the military
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Old 02-07-2013, 18:06   #30
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This kind of thinking scares me because the blind unthinking willingness to let someone else decide who gets to die with no judicial oversight or due process.
I hope you dont carry a badge or serve in the military
Let's put the shoe on the other foot

Suppose a modern day Jane Fonda goes overseas and takes up with the enemy are we to be forbidden to bomb a camp we know she is in because she "hasn't been given a trial"
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Old 02-07-2013, 19:04   #31
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Let's put the shoe on the other foot

Suppose a modern day Jane Fonda goes overseas and takes up with the enemy are we to be forbidden to bomb a camp we know she is in because she "hasn't been given a trial"
What if she were in communication with radical anti-american people inside the country at the same time. And she supported them and helped them plan a mass murder of troops and civilians inside the united states.

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And if this guy, and 12 others were killed as a result of her efforts, I'd have painted her arse with the laser designator myself, and been happy to see the impact myself.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:04   #32
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What if she were in communication with radical anti-american people inside the country at the same time. And she supported them and helped them plan a mass murder of troops and civilians inside the united states.

Political Issues

And if this guy, and 12 others were killed as a result of her efforts, I'd have painted her arse with the laser designator myself, and been happy to see the impact myself.


Forget that silly old Constitution.......after all, it's for the children.



I sincerely hope your not posting a pic of a child to justify spitting on the Bill of Rights just as Barry did to sign his other atrocity. You folks are willing to give up your natural rights our forefathers bled and died for, based on hypothetical and speculative scenarios. That behavior is supposedly reserved for anti-gunners, liberals and authoritarians, but we see the true colors. I shake my head in disgust and disbelief. Good day sir.

Last edited by EOS; 02-08-2013 at 04:17..
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:47   #33
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Regarding the Fort Hood shooter, I have a very simple solution...strap him down, shave him, have the trial, then give him a few weeks to regrow his beard before sending him off to see "Allah."

People like him, or ANYONE who has actively engaged US troops in combat (or in that case, assassination), deserves everything they get.

It's when we get into the murky waters of people who MIGHT be planning to do SOMETHING, that I really prefer we have hard evidence before hitting the kill switch...especially when the switch is in the hands of an Administration that from day one has regarded it's opponents as enemies of the state...
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:56   #34
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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Let's put the shoe on the other foot

Suppose a modern day Jane Fonda goes overseas and takes up with the enemy are we to be forbidden to bomb a camp we know she is in because she "hasn't been given a trial"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
What if she were in communication with radical anti-american people inside the country at the same time. And she supported them and helped them plan a mass murder of troops and civilians inside the united states.

And if this guy, and 12 others were killed as a result of her efforts, I'd have painted her arse with the laser designator myself, and been happy to see the impact myself.
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Originally Posted by EnemyOfTheState View Post
Forget that silly old Constitution.......after all, it's for the children.

I sincerely hope your not posting a pic of a child to justify spitting on the Bill of Rights just as Barry did to sign his other atrocity. You folks are willing to give up your natural rights our forefathers bled and died for, based on hypothetical and speculative scenarios. That behavior is supposedly reserved for anti-gunners, liberals and authoritarians, but we see the true colors. I shake my head in disgust and disbelief. Good day sir.
Jane Fonda, yes, leftist opportunist who went to NVN to protest the war. She went seeking peace. She went representing the citizens of her country who sought peace. She went seeking understanding of the North VN struggle against the imperialistic government and military of the US. She denounced American leaders, political and military, as war criminals. She said none of our POWs in the north were tortured...blah, blah, blah.

As Doc brought up, did she call for Americans sympathetic with her to commit murder and mayhem against other Americans in the United States? I do not recall that she did.

Therein is the difference between Hanoi Jane and today's crop of Anwar al-Awlaki and his wannabes.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:49   #35
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Jane Fonda, yes, leftist opportunist who went to NVN to protest the war. She went seeking peace. She went representing the citizens of her country who sought peace. She went seeking understanding of the North VN struggle against the imperialistic government and military of the US. She denounced American leaders, political and military, as war criminals. She said none of our POWs in the north were tortured...blah, blah, blah.

As Doc brought up, did she call for Americans sympathetic with her to commit murder and mayhem against other Americans in the United States? I do not recall that she did.

Therein is the difference between Hanoi Jane and today's crop of Anwar al-Awlaki and his wannabes.

But here is the question,

If she were at the location of a high value military target should we not strike it, because she was there? Do we have to dance around not killing American defectors/traitors without "due process" to the point that they can become shields for the enemy?

Where do we draw that line in clears and succinct terms.
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Old 02-08-2013, 13:14   #36
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But here is the question,

If she were at the location of a high value military target should we not strike it, because she was there? Do we have to dance around not killing American defectors/traitors without "due process" to the point that they can become shields for the enemy?

Where do we draw that line in clears and succinct terms.
That's my point in one of these threads.

If the Rules of Engagement change to include strike immunity for American citizens actively engaged in acts of violence against the US and in the presence of enemy combatant leaders, those enemy combatant leaders would surround themselves with that shield - an American citizen - the higher the profile, the better.

If there is a meeting of these leaders, invite Americans to participate. Even though the head of the snake, the top leadership is present, a lone American could prevent a strike that would possibly cripple the organization(s).

That would be bad. It is not this simple, but it would be bad.
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Old 02-08-2013, 13:41   #37
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My guess is that it will more likely be a pro-gun, pro Bill of Rights Constitutionalist than a member of al Qaeda.
My guess is it won't be. Besides, if they're on U.S. soil we can easily nab them.
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Old 02-08-2013, 21:14   #38
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Jane Fonda, yes, leftist opportunist who went to NVN to protest the war. She went seeking peace. She went representing the citizens of her country who sought peace. She went seeking understanding of the North VN struggle against the imperialistic government and military of the US. She denounced American leaders, political and military, as war criminals. She said none of our POWs in the north were tortured...blah, blah, blah.

As Doc brought up, did she call for Americans sympathetic with her to commit murder and mayhem against other Americans in the United States? I do not recall that she did.

Therein is the difference between Hanoi Jane and today's crop of Anwar al-Awlaki and his wannabes.

And she still should have had a hellfire up her ****
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:56   #39
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My guess is it won't be. Besides, if they're on U.S. soil we can easily nab them.
Ugh.......


You do of course realize that it is much cheaper to murder Americans than "nab them" right?

Now, think along the lines of thousands, ten of thousands, or even millions of We the People trying to throw off the tyranny that has been our so called "US government" for the past 100 years.

They will do it in the most cost effective way and that means murdering those they have labeled as domestic terrorists. Of course some will remain alive, in well defined boundaries which will most likely be in and near major cities, as the process of the globalists' geoengineering* plans will most certainly require huge amounts of manual labor at first.


*Geoengineering in the sense of "mining" the globe for labor (i.e., people) and resources (i.e., raw materials) as well as the need for "hiring" some sheeple to guard the rest of the sheeple. (It will happen here too as the region the united States is in will be treated no differently than the other nine regions of the globe are treated.)

Maranatha. Amein.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:12   #40
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And she still should have had a hellfire up her ****
Agreed... I had a buddy in a POW camp when she went. I was supposed to be his right seat the day he and the guy who flew instead were shot down. Yeah, I was angry at her for emboldening his captors.
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