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Old 02-08-2013, 17:37   #151
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
So when you sow market prices you will pay market prices?

Profound much?
I always pay below market prices. I'm from Lake Wobegone where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.
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Old 02-08-2013, 17:42   #152
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Old 02-08-2013, 18:59   #153
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Price gouging
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In the Soviet Union, it was simply included under the single definition of speculation.
The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property. In jurisdictions where there is no such crime, the term may still be used to pressure firms to refrain from such behavior.
The term is not in widespread use in mainstream economic theory, but is sometimes used to refer to practices of a coercive monopoly which raises prices above the market rate that would otherwise prevail in a competitive environment.[1] Alternatively, it may refer to suppliers' benefiting to excess from a short-term change in the demand curve.
As a criminal offense, Florida's law[2] is an example. Price gouging may be charged when a supplier of essential goods or services sharply raises the prices asked in anticipation of or during a civil emergency, or when it cancels or dishonors contracts in order to take advantage of an increase in prices related to such an emergency. The model case is a retailer who increases the price of existing stocks of milk and bread when a hurricane is imminent. It is a defense to show that the price increase mostly reflects increased costs, such as running an emergency generator, or hazard pay for workers.+
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:02   #154
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Couldn't resist. I dropped a pile of poop, and all the poop eating flies came out to feast. Hee Hee Hee
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:05   #155
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Couldn't resist. I dropped a pile of poop, and all the poop eating flies came out to feast. Hee Hee Hee

The guy who takes Wiki as holy writ and thinks there is an absolute value to the word "Fair" wants to act high and mighty


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Old 02-08-2013, 19:09   #156
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Of course only you have the wisdom to judge right from wrong and create your own definitions on the fly, expecting everyone else to bow down and accept them. I can see you are still a little hungry. That's ok. Help yourself to some more. As to the high and mighty part, All men are created equal. Opps I didn't ask if that one passed your test first.

Last edited by firemax; 02-08-2013 at 19:11..
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:21   #157
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Originally Posted by firemax View Post
Of course only you have the wisdom to judge right from wrong and create your own definitions on the fly, expecting everyone else to bow down and accept them. I can see you are still a little hungry. That's ok. Help yourself to some more. As to the high and mighty part, All men are created equal. Opps I didn't ask if that one passed your test first.
did you Wiki the 1st Amendment too?
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:55   #158
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Originally Posted by firemax View Post
Price gouging
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In the Soviet Union, it was simply included under the single definition of speculation.
The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property. In jurisdictions where there is no such crime, the term may still be used to pressure firms to refrain from such behavior.
The term is not in widespread use in mainstream economic theory, but is sometimes used to refer to practices of a coercive monopoly which raises prices above the market rate that would otherwise prevail in a competitive environment.[1] Alternatively, it may refer to suppliers' benefiting to excess from a short-term change in the demand curve.
As a criminal offense, Florida's law[2] is an example. Price gouging may be charged when a supplier of essential goods or services sharply raises the prices asked in anticipation of or during a civil emergency, or when it cancels or dishonors contracts in order to take advantage of an increase in prices related to such an emergency. The model case is a retailer who increases the price of existing stocks of milk and bread when a hurricane is imminent. It is a defense to show that the price increase mostly reflects increased costs, such as running an emergency generator, or hazard pay for workers.+
Did you even bother to read your own wiki link? It contradicts your entire position.
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Old 02-08-2013, 20:46   #159
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Did you even bother to read your own wiki link? It contradicts your entire position.
He's to busy coming up with cute metaphors like, "Flys" and "Poop", to let the truth get in the way.

Not to mention his credibility is shot to heck, his last paragraph challenged rant started with, "My last word since I started this".
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Old 02-08-2013, 20:52   #160
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Dear OP. Here are a bunch of paragraph breaks. Please, please, please use them in your next post!











Let me know if you need more. I know where my enter key is and can easily supply all you need. I won't even gouge.
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Old 02-08-2013, 22:26   #161
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Not sure about price gouging, and I understand free market, supply and demand ect. ect...But it does suck when I see the local Ma&Pa gun shop that I have supported for years send people to walmart to buy all the ammo they can and then mark it up by 30%. It also sucks seeing gun prices go up as fast as house values went down.
Gun owners are to blam to. I have a relative who has not fired a gun in 10 years. He is so paranoid about the big bad goverment and the imaginary black helicopters that in the last couple of months he has bought many guns and thousands of rounds of ammo. The guns will just rust in his basement and he will never fire the ammo. Mean while I have to worry that I can get enough ammo to shoot at my weekly pistol league. I actually shoot my guns and not just buy them because Im afraid of somthing. People can spend there money on what they want, but this situation still is a pain for real firearm enthusiasts.

Last edited by fg17; 02-08-2013 at 22:32..
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Old 02-08-2013, 22:31   #162
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Not sure about price gouging, and I understand free market, supply and demand ect. ect...But it does suck when I see the local Ma&Pa gun shop that I have supported for years send people to walmart to buy all the ammo they can and then mark it up by 30%. It also sucks seeing gun prices go up as fast as house values went down.
They're doing gun owners a favor. Wal Mart won't price it appropriately so their shelves will be bare. The LGS will mark it up so some will be available and it likely won't all wind up in someone's closet.

I stumbled on some 556, 308 today at Academy. 1 box of each limit. I bought some because it was there but really, what the hell am I gonna do with 20 more rds of 556? Its hardly enough to make it worth going to the range.
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Old 02-08-2013, 22:34   #163
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A friend of mine works at a sporting goods store. About a month ago a couple guys came in to the store and spent $1000 on 7.62x39, bought every bit of. The next day they went to a gunshow, and tripled their money. I would bet at least some people went to that store before going to the gun show, and seeing ALL the ammo gone, panicked and paid 3x the price just to have some on hand.

Another friend of mine owns a small GS. He sold an AR to a (he thought) friend and loyal customer for msrp, about $700. He's an honest guy, and even with the scare going on, he didn't mark up his AR's. Two days later he sees the guy who just bought the AR, selling it at the same gun show for $1,600. Not only did the guy act dishonestly toward his friend the GS owner,(he told him he always wanted one and bla bla bla), but I'm pretty sure what he did could be considered a straw sell.

Are these two examples gouging? Or the free market at work? I think creating a shortage by hoarding all the supply, and then selling it a 100-300% markup is blatantly dishonest.

The only LGS in my area with .223 ammo in stock has 20rd boxes marked a $25. Their prices were too high before the "crisis", but they really showed their true colors lately. They also pulled all the extra mags out of the boxes of new and used pistols and are trying to sell them at $40+ dollars each. I think that trying to take advantage of the crisis by doubling and tripling the price of your inventory, and stealing mags out of new gun boxes to sell separately is very dishonest. I will never spend a dime at this store

There is nothing wrong with making an honest profit, but dishonesty and greed are the root of a very many problems in our current culture.

But I guess in a free market economy I can tell these types of people to stuff it, because I had the sense to keep a modest supply of ammo on hand.

Last edited by FloorPoor; 02-08-2013 at 22:39..
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Old 02-08-2013, 22:34   #164
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Old 02-08-2013, 22:39   #165
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Quote:
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My last word since i started this. Honestly, there are a few things no one even thought to mention. The economy is not good. There are those out there that are not doing as good as the rest of us are. Many, through no fault of there own, have fallen upon hard times. I know a few. I'm talking about good, hard working people who have worked all of their lives and have rejected the hand out mindset. For them right now every penny counts. Some make decisions every day on either eating or taking care of medical needs they are neglecting just to survive, I am talking about real people with children and spouses that go to bed at night with the weight of the world on their shoulders. Don't dare to be an ***** and get your violins out. I am doing just fine. I am not talking about me. If you think it is a good conservative principal to jump on the "I got mine you should have prepped earlier bandwagon" I feel real sorry for you. If you are so numb not to be able to feel the pain of others, I even pity you. That is all i am saying. If we as a nation don't help each other and stop worrying what we can get for ourselves by making a buck, we will never survive. That is how gougers driving up prices hurts this country. They are only thinking about one thing. Their own selves. If you are wondering what I am doing about this, it is helping others prepare for what could be coming. People are scared if you haven't noticed. They are buying guns and ammo at an all time alarming rate. It is as plain as the nose on your face if you care to look at it. There is panic and people are having a hard time dealing with it. It is not just about you and your right to take advantage of a serious situation. If it is that important to you now to capitalize just because it is your right, you are free to do it. Just don't criticize me for pointing it out. The expected move is for those who don't want to look at what they do, is to call me a entitlement minded liberal democrat, or worse yet a communist as one person did. Please come up with a more challenging move than that. I have had that one played on me by other liberals many times before. i don't want to take your rights off of you at all. Just to cause us all to see that our rights should be secondary to our responsibility to care for one another even when we could have used our "what about me rights." Sorry if I offended anyone. I just wanted to raise a point and present another way to view things. I had the illusion that was what these forums were suppose to be all about. One more thing. The one who demands that everyone accepts "his" definition of gouging so he can feel good about himself, I say who died and made you god. Your world is not mine. I am done with this. so all the cowards can take your shots. YOU are the ones trying to deny others their !st amendment right to speak their mind. Right or wrong as you may see it.

Rights and responsibilities have the same weight in my book, as well as a few other things. You, sir, are an en-titlist, by your own words. You may not agree with the title, but you are the definition of one, by your beliefs. I disagree with you you in every way, but I guess we're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we?
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Old 02-08-2013, 22:40   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
A friend of mine works at a sporting goods store. About a month ago a couple guys came in to the store and spent $1000 on 7.62x39, bought every bit of. The next day they went to a gunshow, and tripled their money. I would bet at least some people went to that store before going to the gun show, and seeing ALL the ammo gone, panicked and paid 3x the price just to have some on hand.

Another friend of mine owns a small GS. He sold an AR to a (he thought) friend and loyal customer for msrp, about $700. He's an honest guy, and even with the scare going on, he didn't mark up his AR's. Two days later he sees the guy who just bought the AR, selling it at the same gun show for $1,600. Not only did the guy act dishonestly toward his friend the GS owner,(he told him he always wanted one and bla bla bla) I'm pretty sure what he did could be considered a straw sell.

Are these two examples gouging? Or the free market at work? I think creating a shortage by hoarding all the supply, and then selling it a 100-300% markup is blatantly dishonest.

The only LGS in my area with .223 ammo in stock has 20rd boxes marked a $25. Their prices were too high before the "crisis", but they really showed their true colors lately. They also pulled all the extra mags out of the boxes of new and used pistols and are trying to sell them at $40+ dollars each. I think that trying to take advantage of the crisis by doubling and tripling the price of your inventory, and stealing mags out of new gun boxes to sell separately is very dishonest. I will never spend a dime at this store

There is nothing wrong with making an honest profit, but dishonesty and greed are the root of a very many problems in our current culture.

But I guess in a free market economy I can tell these types of people to stuff it, because I had the sense to keep a modest supply of ammo on hand.
In the first two examples had the stores priced their products appropriately from the beginning, all that other crap would have been avoided and the profit would be in the hands of the merchants who have employees to pay and no more inventory to sell.

And you're wrong about greed. I suggest when you go to work on Monday you should insist that your employer reduce your wages.
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Old 02-08-2013, 22:43   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
There is nothing wrong with making an honest profit, but dishonesty and greed are the root of a very many problems in our current culture.



What is dishonest about selling a product at a price a consumer agrees to?

Quote:
But I guess in a free market economy I can tell these types of people to stuff it, because I had the sense to keep a modest supply of ammo on hand.
YOU are hoarding supply. You have more than you need. I demand you not be greedy and unethical and sell me some of your ammo for what you paid for it.
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Old 02-08-2013, 23:16   #168
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I thought we were maybe being a little harsh on the OP, him being new around here and all, but then he came back for more.

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Old 02-08-2013, 23:38   #169
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A friend of mine works at a sporting goods store. About a month ago a couple guys came in to the store and spent $1000 on 7.62x39, bought every bit of. The next day they went to a gunshow, and tripled their money.
What's wrong with that? People do that all the time with products other than guns and ammo.

Quote:
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I would bet at least some people went to that store before going to the gun show, and seeing ALL the ammo gone, panicked and paid 3x the price just to have some on hand.
Maybe they did maybe they didn't. Who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
Another friend of mine owns a small GS. He sold an AR to a (he thought) friend and loyal customer for msrp, about $700. He's an honest guy, and even with the scare going on, he didn't mark up his AR's. Two days later he sees the guy who just bought the AR, selling it at the same gun show for $1,600.
He sold the firearm. What the guy does after the sale isn't your friends concern or problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
Not only did the guy act dishonestly toward his friend the GS owner,(he told him he always wanted one and bla bla bla), but I'm pretty sure what he did could be considered a straw sell.
If he did in fact commit a crime, maybe you should report him for illegal activity. Just make sure you have proof.

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Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
Are these two examples gouging?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
Or the free market at work?
Free market. Buyers willingly paying the seller's price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
I think creating a shortage by hoarding all the supply, and then selling it a 100-300% markup is blatantly dishonest.
If you say so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
The only LGS in my area with .223 ammo in stock has 20rd boxes marked a $25. Their prices were too high before the "crisis", but they really showed their true colors lately. They also pulled all the extra mags out of the boxes of new and used pistols and are trying to sell them at $40+ dollars each. I think that trying to take advantage of the crisis by doubling and tripling the price of your inventory, and stealing mags out of new gun boxes to sell separately is very dishonest. I will never spend a dime at this store
Very good! No one is forcing you to spend your money anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
There is nothing wrong with making an honest profit
Please define an "honest" profit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
, but dishonesty and greed are the root of a very many problems in our current culture.
If you say so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
But I guess in a free market economy I can tell these types of people to stuff it, because I had the sense to keep a modest supply of ammo on hand.
You are being greedy by hoarding your ammo!
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Last edited by 427; 02-08-2013 at 23:40..
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:21   #170
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we need a system of "gouger credits", that offset gouging based on selling firearms-related products below market rates. we can then commoditize the anti-gouger credits (AGC) and package them to sell on the secondary market and then create the futures market, not for speculation, but for "risk management".
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:11   #171
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Wow. Not too bad for my first post. I'm sure it will be over 7 pages. I like it here.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:19   #172
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It is a matter of supply and demand . I sold 12 guns on Gun Broker last month. started all of them at what I had in them and said that in the ad . Some still brought double what I had in them. I don't feel as if I gouged anyone.

I bought them to make money on and decided the time was right to sell . If they just have to have it, and they have the money , sell it to them. We are not talking about food or something you must have in order to just stay alive.

I don't even look at the crazy priced items . Most don't sell anyway. But how am I to know what an item is really selling for at any current point in time. That is why I chose to put it where it could be bid on. I also sold one rifle for 635.00 that I have watched them for the last 6 months and none of them went for under 800 . I watched 2 sell in the weeks prior with 1 over 1200 and 1 just over 1000. I still made a little on it but the bidders decided what it would sell for.

I have always said anything is only worth what you can get out of it when you are ready to sell it.

Would you give the guy 600.00 for a 1000.00 item , because he was in a hurt for cash and brag about what a good deal you got ? Or say , its worth more , let me pay you what it is worth ?
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:31   #173
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Is it gouging and way over priced like gold, or does the masses and markets set the price? Hum.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:50   #174
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Did you even bother to read your own wiki link? It contradicts your entire position.
This is called deception. I agree almost totally with the definition. In the rush to "fit in" and join in the bashing, you may have forgot to read what I actually said. I was talking about greed. I was talking about one's own accountability for their greedy actions. There are obviously a few who fit the proverbial shoe. They twisted what I said. Go back and read. If you want to sell something for a high price you are free to do so. I would never want that freedom to change, It is when an individual, goes out and buys up all the ammo, loading supplies, mags, etc. making them scarce and at the same time driving the prices up for everyone then sells them for an unreasonable price. I have no use for someone like that. I never mentioned anything about a business or a supplier buying to stock their shelves. They provide a service and compete in the market. That is the difference. Also, i said someone who cares nothing at all for others, is a parasite. I still stand by that. These are the people ruining this country. If it is taking advantage of the 49%of those who work and pay taxes so they can live off of others or gougers. Both are the same in my opinion. Both take advantage of others. For those of you who seem to have trouble reading and comprehending what I just said. To the smart ***** who Is the grammar/typing skills police. I got my point across. Even though I used one paragraph to do it. If you don't like it don't read it. i was wise enough to make it without you so far.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:15   #175
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Actually, what happened is a newbie came in and started telling folks how it was, and got his butt handed to him. Simple as that and no further elaboration needed. GT is very forgiving of this sort of thing, Max, and if you'd just let it go everyone else would.

It's your move now.
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