Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-10-2013, 01:46   #161
TxGun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Family ranch in Texas
Posts: 2,283
If you look at the totality and longevity of Browning's firearms designs, there is really nobody who is on his level. And it's not even close. Those who are arguing this point apparently have no idea how many successful firearms...military and commercial...pistols, rifles, shotguns, machine guns, etc. ...that JB is actually responsible for. Sure, there have been other great designers who have produced a great design, or two, or three ("improvements" on someone else's original design really shouldn't be counted)...but there is no one, repeat no one, who has had as many successful designs and whose designs have remained as viable, even cutting edge, for as long.

Last edited by TxGun; 02-10-2013 at 01:51..
TxGun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 01:48   #162
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Yes the whole glock vs 1911 debate is useless. Two guns whose design was over 6 decades apart.

I would note that John Browning himself stated that his greatest pistol design was the Hi-Power, not the 1911 though.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Indeed, I was just referring to the other poster's mistaken concept.

BYW I didn't think Browning was still alive when Duidonne Sauivie (sp?) finished up the P-35 design?
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 02:49   #163
willieH
Senior Member
 
willieH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,042
delete---double entry

Last edited by willieH; 02-10-2013 at 03:06..
willieH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 03:02   #164
willieH
Senior Member
 
willieH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Here is another attempt to make it about the Glock VS the 1911 Is comprehension a lost art?

The 1911 as manufactured according to Browning's design and issued had a very good reliability record in the US military Until the started wearing out as the Glock will as well.

and by the way, how is GG's .50 cal machinegun going? His .30 cal or his levergun designs, or his shotguns?

If you can only see in one dimension stay out of three-dimensional discussions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caraker0341 View Post
My deeeeeepest apologies. I can't afford a 3D monitor.
Now that's funny
willieH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 03:21   #165
RyanBDawg
Senior Member
 
RyanBDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ooltewah Tennessee
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Indeed, I was just referring to the other poster's mistaken concept.

BYW I didn't think Browning was still alive when Duidonne Sauivie (sp?) finished up the P-35 design?
No he wasn't.

Dieudonné Saive incorporated some patents that had expired after Brownings death into the Hi-Power, like the lock breach design from the 1911, etc..

Browning's original design for the Hi-Power was straight blowback I think.

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
- Clint Eastwood

Glock 26 w/CTC Lasergrips, and Trijicon Sights = Daily Carry

Last edited by RyanBDawg; 02-10-2013 at 03:22..
RyanBDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 03:23   #166
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 57,671


Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Israel, Brazil, France, Bangladesh, Denmark, Georgia, India, Iraq (post invasion), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Switzerland, Venezuela, Yemen...


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Like I said, no major military force.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 03:26   #167
RyanBDawg
Senior Member
 
RyanBDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ooltewah Tennessee
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Like I said, no major military force.
Yea, it's not like Israel has been involved in any heavy engagements in the last 30 years or anything.

And why is the Glock's prevalence or absence in major conflicts in any way shape or form an issue?

I can tell you right now Id rather have a Glock 17 than a Beretta 92 if I was in a conflict.



Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
- Clint Eastwood

Glock 26 w/CTC Lasergrips, and Trijicon Sights = Daily Carry

Last edited by RyanBDawg; 02-10-2013 at 03:40..
RyanBDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 03:49   #168
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 57,671


Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Yea, it's not like Israel has been involved in any heavy engagements in the last 30 years or anything.
Yeah, when the last time Israel fought a real war, what handguns were they using?
Quote:
I can tell you right now Id rather have a Glock 17 than a Beretta 92 if I was in a conflict.



Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Uncle Sam thinks otherwise. So do I. The M9 and its civilian equivalence had been through some serious craps. Can't say the same about the Glock.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 03:56   #169
RyanBDawg
Senior Member
 
RyanBDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ooltewah Tennessee
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Yeah, when the last time Israel fought a real war, what handguns were they using?


Uncle Sam thinks otherwise. So do I. The M9 and its civilian equivalence had been through some serious craps. Can't say the same about the Glock.
Israel has been fighting a war since the 1940s.

That's because Uncle Sam probably used some old school military hard-asses who refused to even consider a "plastic" gun when they were replacing the 1911 in the 1980s.

Why would I choose a gun that has almost 2x the individual parts, is heavier, and holds (standard) less ammo? Furthermore, how many times does the average soldier even pull their sidearm in modern conflict? I'd venture to say never.

BTW, I have the 92, don't get me wrong it's a good gun, but there is no real advantage over it compared to a Glock, especially in a conflict zone like the Middle East where sand can more easily foul the open action of the Beretta when compared to the Glock (it's happened enough to warrant an investigation by the Army).

And like you said, the Brits have adopted it, replacing their decades old Hi-Powers..






Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it."
- Clint Eastwood

Glock 26 w/CTC Lasergrips, and Trijicon Sights = Daily Carry

Last edited by RyanBDawg; 02-10-2013 at 04:03..
RyanBDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 04:33   #170
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 57,671


Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Israel has been fighting a war since the 1940s.
The last time Israel fought in a major conflict was when? They got pissant border incursions now and then but when was the last time they fought against a standing military? Could it be the Yom Kippur War?

Quote:
That's because Uncle Sam probably used some old school military hard-asses who refused to even consider a "plastic" gun when they were replacing the 1911 in the 1980s.
Plastic has nothing to do with it. The Beretta's grip panels are made out of plastic. As were the grip panels on the SIG Sauer P226 and HK P7, and Ruger P85, and SW pistols for the XM9 trials (first and second trials).

Uncle Sam specified a hammer fired system for positive ignition, which the Glock didn't and still doesn't have. BTW, how many times have Glock had to revise their striker firing system already? Not too Glock Perfection, eh?

Do you even remember why Glock had to revise their copper color firing mechanism to the black one in the early 1990s? Here's a hint: the spring couldn't handle the striker stay cocked for too long.

Quote:
Why would I choose a gun that has almost 2x the individual parts, is heavier, and holds (standard) less ammo? Furthermore, how many times does the average soldier even pull their sidearm in modern conflict? I'd venture to say never.
Reliability. After all, it only passed the US Army XM9 trial twice while defeating all newcomers.

Quote:
BTW, I have the 92, don't get me wrong it's a good gun, but there is no real advantage over it compared to a Glock, especially in a conflict zone like the Middle East where sand can more easily foul the open action of the Beretta when compared to the Glock (it's happened enough to warrant an investigation by the Army).
The same sand that supposedly jammed up the M1911A1 too? The same M1911A1 that accompanied GIs through Northern Africa and the Middle-East in WWII?

Quote:
And like you said, the Brits have adopted it, replacing their decades old Hi-Powers..

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Yeah, barely. If it were so good then how come the Brits didn't adopt it way, way back? It's not like the British Army didn't know about the existence of the Glock pistol...it's only been around 30-years.
__________________
Can you dig it?

Last edited by fnfalman; 02-10-2013 at 04:33..
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 06:07   #171
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 36,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by caraker0341 View Post
Yes. Glock intoduced a new thought process to the mainstream and made it work out of the box....unlike many 1911's.
No, Glock did not introduce "a new thought process". Everything in a Glock is based on preexisting designs.
__________________
Quote:
This is the internet - you will never learn to shoot here.
- Me, 2014.
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 06:13   #172
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 36,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Israel, Brazil, France, Bangladesh, Denmark, Georgia, India, Iraq (post invasion), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Switzerland, Venezuela, Yemen...


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
I have served, in a war, in a mixed group that included people from the French army - commandos, Chasseurs Alpins, etc., Romanian reconnaissance (their special forces) and in the combat zone regularly encountered Georgians (at the camp across the street) and occasonally troops from Denmark and Sweden.

Never saw a single Glock among them. I specifically talked pistols with one of the Romanian NCO's who showed me his CZ 9mm. The only Glocks I saw in Afghanistan were on contractors and U.S. law enforcement.
__________________
Quote:
This is the internet - you will never learn to shoot here.
- Me, 2014.

Last edited by Bren; 02-10-2013 at 06:14..
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 07:26   #173
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 23,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Like I said, no major military force.
Luxembourg is not a major military force??
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.

Last edited by Bruce M; 02-10-2013 at 07:26..
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 09:20   #174
Taphius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by R*E View Post
Puh-leeze. Glock is a one trick pony.
So is apple for the most part. Their successful items are based off the ipod and how it integrated with itunes

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
Taphius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 09:50   #175
HD45ACP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 103
Glock ftw
HD45ACP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 10:07   #176
Pier23
Senior Member
 
Pier23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by R*E View Post
Puh-leeze. Glock is a one trick pony.
Which is the brilliance of Glocks...now , I am Glock neutral...have them but they don't excite me. i carry them but don't necessarily enjoy them.

Fire one Glock and you have fired them all. You move from model to model with very little effort. The single stack Glock makes sense ONLY if the slide is slimmed down, and I don't see that happening. Glocks are not concealment pistols, they are duty sidearm pistols.

Ruger Nano has taken the Glock modular approach a step further by allowing you to pull out the chassis and put all the go-bang parts into another frame. Be interesting to see if this is a reasonable sales differentiator or if any true benefit is found in this.
Pier23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 10:08   #177
Bob Hafler
Senior Member
 
Bob Hafler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,205
Again we seem to be going off course again and making this post a 1911 vs Glock. The topic is GG on the same level as JMB. The answer is hell NO and it will always be hell NO. GG couldn't shine JMB's shoes. Hell he's not even on the same level as Bill Ruger. I'll agree GG built a very nice pistol but lets not get carried away by thinking he's anywhere near on the same level as many who came before him. As mentioned in and earlier post Glock as of late is being out glocked by many of it's compeditors designs and features. This is something JMB never worried about as when he finished one gun he was on to another and many times I'm sure he worked on more than one guns design at a time. JMB designes were more for country then it was for profit. This alone will always set him apart and on a different level from the others.
Bob Hafler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 10:14   #178
gunsmoke92
Senior Member
 
gunsmoke92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Rigby, Idaho
Posts: 1,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticshooter View Post
Is Gaston Glock on the same level as John Browning?
That will require some thought.......Nope! JMB was an inventor, a designer, and an innovator. Gaston is a developer who took what others invented (tilting barrel, polymer frame, ect) and adapted them to work together in the form of the Glock pistol. In all truth, he didn't actually design the Glock, as that task was left to his employees. He merely paid for someone else to develop it and put his name on it as intellectual property of the company. Gaston did pretty well, business wise, but will never be on the same level as John M. Browning.
__________________
The best defense is a good offense, and I'm really offensive.
SFC, U.S. Army, Retired 1971 - 1992
S&W Club #92, Snubbie club #92, The 21 Club #92, The Big Dawg club #1992
gunsmoke92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 13:10   #179
chrisbroz
Senior Member
 
chrisbroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Port St Lucie, FL
Posts: 125
NO!!! Browning invented/developed MANY different firearms & types of actions, Glock's claim to fame is the simple safe-action action & polymer frame...Herr Glock's pistol uses Browning's locked breech system as do the majority of semi auto pistols in calibers larger than 9mm Kurz or .380. When Herr G's patents on firearms comes close to the number of patents that John M Browning either held or SOLD, I MIGHT concede your point...but not until then!!!

CB in FL...I'm not in any way denigrating Herr Glock, BTW - I LOVE his pistols, but of the two, Browning was the more prolific.
chrisbroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2013, 13:25   #180
jakebrake
cracker
 
jakebrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: too close to philly
Posts: 7,917
not even close.
__________________
God made man, Sam Colt made us equal, John Moses Browning made us civilized... freemasons club Number 57
jakebrake is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:01.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 573
123 Members
450 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31