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Old 02-10-2013, 22:43   #41
ChuteTheMall
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Heads are hard, so are bones like ribs and sternums.

If all you have is a little .22 pocket pistol, and you are fighting for your life with it, add the opponent's soft neck to your list of good targets before you run out of ammo.

Nobody wants to bleed to death, and the neck is one of the most vulnerable targets for just about any weapon.
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Old 02-10-2013, 23:09   #42
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Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Heads are hard, so are bones like ribs and sternums.

If all you have is a little .22 pocket pistol, and you are fighting for your life with it, add the opponent's soft neck to your list of good targets before you run out of ammo.

Nobody wants to bleed to death, and the neck is one of the most vulnerable targets for just about any weapon.
Right. A 124 grain 9mm bullet traveling around 1200 fps has a lot better chance of penetrating bone than a 40 grain .22 slug traveling at whatever speed they do coming out of a short pistol barrel (possibly slower than the aforementioned 9mm round.)


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Old 02-10-2013, 23:39   #43
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Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
A .22 will kill, but it may take a couple of hours.
Actually, I've seen more than a few real-life crime shows where a victim succumbed immediately or relatively quickly after being shot with a .22. I recall one incident where the person (don't recall if it was victim or perp) died almost immediately after only one .22 shot to the chest.
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Old 02-11-2013, 00:57   #44
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That's exactly what I think of you and your presumed CQB, pistol gunfighting, 'expertise'.

A.
I don't really give a crap what you think of me, I only point out that YOUR own words imply very little knowledge of the subject. Assination & hunting or death of anything was not the subject, but you brought it up. The question would the 22lr be effective or adequate for SD/HD or stiopping a voilent encounter. By almost anyones critera but yours, it is not. You brought up just how effective the 22lr could be because it knocked you off your feet w/ a hit in the ankle, You imply that it would work somehow the same in a SD/CQB situation & now you walk all that back. All good, I think most everyone gets where you are not coming from.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:02   #45
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a 22 isn't optimal, however, richard ramirez used a .25 to kill his victims.

that's a .25....the round i wondered aloud if it would actually break skin.
Again, killing unarmed victims w/ anything is not a testimony of effectiveness @ stopping a fight. Ramirez killed most of his unarmed, non fighting victims in their sleep. A hammer would have been just as effective.
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Even out of a NAA mini revolver, it aint gonna tickle, and there is a nonzero chance of significant damage. According to some, at contact range the expanding muzzle gasses can do more damage than the actual bullet, but even if that isn't the case, I don't see the bullet improving the assailant's day.
At contact distance, a 4" folding fighting knife will be more effective, won't jamb & won't run out of ammo. The wounds inflicted will be lethal & almost instant fight stopper, hard to fight trying to hold in your internals w/ one hand. If you are counting on getting that close, I would rather have the knife than a NAA, & yes I own one, nice novelty, but not a good defensive weapon IMO, not even that close.
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A .22 lr velocitor/stinger round going into a bad guys head several times in quick order is better than a single action .45 LC that misses 6 times.
Man if I had $100 for everytimes some noob said this. It's pretty easy to make said headshot standing still @ 21ft, slow fire, in daylight & a stationary target. Now add low light, you moving, the target moving, & shootings some crappy little 25acp or other mouse gun with poor grip & no sights. My fav test for the internet commando, a 4" balloon on a 12" string @ a mere 21ft on a windy day. Draw, move & try getting even one headhsot? Yeay, get back to me on that one.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:54   #46
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Anyways, the original poster asked if a .22 lr will work. Answer is yes. Up close and put in the right spot it will. Is this my prefered caliber for self defense...no. My prefered weapon for home defense is a 12 guage shotgun, or perhaps a .223/5.56 mm carbine of some sort. Not a handgun. For conceled carry I prefer a .357 sig, .40 s&w, or .45 acp. I plan on getting a Glock 26 for carry and know the 9mm works. I maybe new to the forum, but new to firearms? Im a combat veteran and a paramedic. I have seen what small caliber rounds can do. Give me a .45 anyday over a .22lr! Heck, give me a .38 special! A .22 lr round will kill a human just as dead as anything... if proper shot placement is executed! Maybe a louisville slugger is a better choice for home defense, but maybe not. Hitting any small area from 21 feet is no easy task. I agree with you there, but I was thinking more along the lines of hand to hand combat distances. I will say there are much morr appropriate calibers for self defense! We all know that. I see you are a hunter, so you know the importance of shot placement. If a .22lr is all granny, or polly princess can shot accurately then go for it! Its better than nothing at all!
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Old 02-11-2013, 13:55   #47
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At contact distance, a 4" folding fighting knife will be more effective, won't jamb & won't run out of ammo. The wounds inflicted will be lethal & almost instant fight stopper, hard to fight trying to hold in your internals w/ one hand. If you are counting on getting that close, I would rather have the knife than a NAA, & yes I own one, nice novelty, but not a good defensive weapon IMO, not even that close.
I'd rather have both. I'd rather have the chance to put even single extra hole in him BEFORE knife range than count on going knife-to-knife. Even if you win a knife fight, they still got close enough to hit/grab/cut/stab you in the process. If that is going to happen, like I said, hopefully they'll have some extra 1/4" holes on their lungs by the time they get that close. If it slows him down at all, that gives me an edge. If you don't have that "novelty" .22, you can't do anything to them until they are close enough to do something to you.

And there are other threats where that little bit of range makes a big difference. I know a man who lived outside Baton Rouge who made frequent use of mini-revolvers on poisonous snakes - in his own back yard. Try doing that with your knife.

I've never had a stray or rabid dog get aggressive enough to need putting down, but I know people who have - and if the dog is close enough for your knife, it is already too close.

Yes, a .22 is not the end-all, be-all of self defense.surprise: nothing is. But it ha its place and its uses.
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Old 02-11-2013, 15:23   #48
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And there are other threats where that little bit of range makes a big difference. I know a man who lived outside Baton Rouge who made frequent use of mini-revolvers on poisonous snakes - in his own back yard. Try doing that with your knife.
I find a shovel works best for snakes, but hey, you want to waste 22lr killing a snake, fine w/ me. Again, I can't think of a single isntance where a 22lr/25acp mousegun would be preferable to just about anything else.
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Even if you win a knife fight, they still got close enough to hit/grab/cut/stab you in the process. If that is going to happen, like I said, hopefully they'll have some extra 1/4" holes on their lungs by the time they get that close. If it slows him down at all, that gives me an edge. If you don't have that "novelty" .22, you can't do anything to them until they are close enough to do something to you.
By the time you deploy your little NAA, you get one shot. If it doesn't hit CNS, yor attacker i son you & cutting the crap out of you with his knife while you try to get to yours. No, again, if you need/want to carry a gun, carry a gun not a novelty. A micro Kahr comceals just as easily & is probably 5x more effective @ any range.
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Old 02-11-2013, 15:51   #49
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Any gun is preferable to none.

If a .22 is what you have, use it. Do a magazine dump and a reload. Wife has a .32 (for personal reasons) and I give her the same advice.

I personally choose to carry something more substantial. You do what you have to do. Good luck.
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Old 02-11-2013, 17:51   #50
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Any gun is preferable to none.

If a .22 is what you have, use it. Do a magazine dump and a reload. Wife has a .32 (for personal reasons) and I give her the same advice.

I personally choose to carry something more substantial. You do what you have to do. Good luck.
Well, maybe. If you have a butt release, like the Ruger, good luck w/ any mag change in a hurry. Really, if the wife can handle a 22lr, she can handle a 4" 38sp, much better weapon choice.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:03   #51
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Well, maybe. If you have a butt release, like the Ruger, good luck w/ any mag change in a hurry. Really, if the wife can handle a 22lr, she can handle a 4" 38sp, much better weapon choice.
Mark III has american style mag release (some won't drop free because magazine disconnect adds some tension). And a Mark IIi is very fast on target. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I will argue that a Mark III is much easier to master than a short barreled .38
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Old 02-11-2013, 23:41   #52
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Regardless of the mag release,hitting the narrow mag well of any single stack 22lr is problematic. IT is not like emerg reloading a G19. To each his own, but a 4" 38sp is easy to shoot, easy to reload & at least 5x more effective on target than any 22lr, headshots aside, & we all know how good everyone is making headshots right? Geeze, I have watched MAster class IDPA shooters miss a headshot on a target not moving, while they were standing still but trying to hurry. Marginally skilled shooters have little to no chance in making the same shot under even more diff conditions. A dose of reality folks, go try this stuff for yourself.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:39   #53
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Would you feel confident in using a .22 in a defensive situation of that was all you had available at the time?
Yes if it was all I had available, for sure it's better than no gun. Producing a firearm can end a threat w/o any shots being fired and often times does. I'm pretty good with my 8 shot SP101. Each round is equal to a low-recoil #4 buck pellet to me.

My G22 or any of my 45s would be better and the old Rem 870 would be best.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:02   #54
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If you HAVE to use a .22lr handgun, use a revolver. I love the round for plinking and fun stuff, I will attest it can work in a pinch.....but like Fred says, there's way better choices.
Even the tusty ammo like CCI mini mag will dud once in a while....not good in a tiny pistol that's already hard to manipulate quickly and even worse if it doesn't have an extractor (many don't).
Still, I won't sell the round short when a person is skilled in using it....I remember John Hinkley used a cheap .22lr revolver and put three people on the ground in less than 2 seconds with a fourth being carted off to the hospital. No indications he was some skilled badass, either.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:14   #55
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A Sight Mark Red Dot Pro Reflex on you 22 auto will change a lot of things for the good. A laser will make it better also. One big advantage is a laser makes shooting from cover much easier. Makes shooting from waste much,easier.

You can set in your lawn chair with your lasered 22 auto and eaisly learn to keep beer cans rolling at yds......WITH YOUR ARM ON THE CHAIR ARM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:25   #56
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Man if I had $100 for everytimes some noob said this. It's pretty easy to make said headshot standing still @ 21ft, slow fire, in daylight & a stationary target. Now add low light, you moving, the target moving, & shootings some crappy little 25acp or other mouse gun with poor grip & no sights. My fav test for the internet commando, a 4" balloon on a 12" string @ a mere 21ft on a windy day. Draw, move & try getting even one headhsot? Yeay, get back to me on that one.
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Let's not make silly assumptions about somebody's skill based off the number of posts they have. When you get out of the Beverly Hills Gun Club and go do some training at 29 Palms CA MCAGCC, and then get some in the Suck several times. Well get back to me on that one! I apologize in advance for this condesending remark, but for all I know you could be a combat veteren too! I sure you're an excellent shot. We all get it. A .22lr round is not really sufficient for putting an assailant down for keeps, and shot placement is critical in any scenerio with just about any caliber weapon! Would I purposely use a .22lr for self defense? NO! Fred 338 is right...there are much better choices!
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:23   #57
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Andy W originally asked the question... Would I feel comfortable using a .22 if that's all I had?

I got to thinking, kicking this "what if" scenario around is fine and perhaps thought provoking, but in reality I guess my thoughts are... Never allow yourself to get into that position in the first place. Isn't that what "preparedness" is all about?

Look most of us have taken precautions to secure our homes, cars, businesses and for personal protection (if you haven't already) you can obtain a CCW to protect yourself on the streets. All of the above I have mentioned - doesn't involve a .22, so the chances of "if that's all I have" are slim to none!

Now I have a .22 rifle and a pistol and i really enjoy shooting them and yes the ammo of today can not even be compared to the ammo I shot when I was a kid. The fact of the matter is that those .22 weapons are not even in the mix for ALL of the home/self defense plans.

If at home... by the time I work my way down from my Trusty Winchester shot gun, all my S&W's, my Glocks, down to my Bersa Thunder 380 - folks if the threat hasn't been stopped by then... well a .22 pistol isn't going to do me much good at all.

Moral of the story; The way I have prepared my own home/self defense plans is that a .22 isn't even in the mix. I never want to get to the place where I have to say - "if a .22 is all that you have"

Just some random thoughts before I have my morning coffee so please excuse the rambling.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:46   #58
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Actually, I've seen more than a few real-life crime shows where a victim succumbed immediately or relatively quickly after being shot with a .22. I recall one incident where the person (don't recall if it was victim or perp) died almost immediately after only one .22 shot to the chest.
They must die of shock . . . .
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:23   #59
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If you HAVE to use a .22lr handgun, use a revolver. I love the round for plinking and fun stuff, I will attest it can work in a pinch.....but like Fred says, there's way better choices.
Even the tusty ammo like CCI mini mag will dud once in a while....not good in a tiny pistol that's already hard to manipulate quickly and even worse if it doesn't have an extractor (many don't).
Still, I won't sell the round short when a person is skilled in using it....I remember John Hinkley used a cheap .22lr revolver and put three people on the ground in less than 2 seconds with a fourth being carted off to the hospital. No indications he was some skilled badass, either.
And Reagan didn't even know he was hit, Brady took a lucky shoot to the head & survived & the FBI agent was not completely out of the fight. Remember, they were ambushed, not fighting back, not hopped up on drugs or sensory deprived by alcohol. Sure, it works, but adequate would be a kind adjective.
If your ability is truely amazing & you can gaurantee a headshot on a bobbing/moving 4" circle on demand, in low light, then you can count yourself as one ofthe top shooters on the planet. I would wager, quite a large one too, that most shooters can't hit a moving 4" object on demand in say 1.5sec @ 21ft & do it 99 out of 100. I would also wager most have never tried it either. I don't care how much training you had in the mil or LE, unless you are shooting almost daily, that skill level decreases w/ each passing week. You just think you are as good as you were on your last best day @ the range.
I'm grounded in reality, I see how expert & master level shooters can & do miss. They shoot 4-5x a week, not just plinking but drilling & they can't gaurantee the shot 99 out of 100. I could & would cetainly fight w/ a 22lr if it was all I had, but to choose one, why?
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Old 02-12-2013, 13:08   #60
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And Reagan didn't even know he was hit, Brady took a lucky shoot to the head & survived & the FBI agent was not completely out of the fight. Remember, they were ambushed, not fighting back, not hopped up on drugs or sensory deprived by alcohol. Sure, it works, but adequate would be a kind adjective.
If your ability is truely amazing & you can gaurantee a headshot on a bobbing/moving 4" circle on demand, in low light, then you can count yourself as one ofthe top shooters on the planet. I would wager, quite a large one too, that most shooters can't hit a moving 4" object on demand in say 1.5sec @ 21ft & do it 99 out of 100. I would also wager most have never tried it either. I don't care how much training you had in the mil or LE, unless you are shooting almost daily, that skill level decreases w/ each passing week. You just think you are as good as you were on your last best day @ the range.
I'm grounded in reality, I see how expert & master level shooters can & do miss. They shoot 4-5x a week, not just plinking but drilling & they can't gaurantee the shot 99 out of 100. I could & would cetainly fight w/ a 22lr if it was all I had, but to choose one, why?
The Reagan shooting was a good example of .22 ballistics.
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