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Old 02-09-2013, 21:12   #26
FLAHOTROD
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As stated earlier, I would prefer it to nothing. I'd rather shoot someone with a .22 than throw a rock at him.

One more thing to keep in mind here, which many people have mentioned, that the .22 can be lethal. Absolutely. But in many of those cases, it wasn't immediate. It wasn't a threat-stopper. Someone who is fatally wounded from a .22 may not know they are dead yet and keep on fighting for some time.
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Old 02-09-2013, 21:20   #27
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That's a great video, fuzzynuts. Thanks for sharing it.
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Old 02-09-2013, 22:04   #28
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Would you feel confident in using a .22 in a defensive situation of that was all you had available at the time?
I wouldn't say I'd be confident in 22.lr if that was the only caliber I had to rely on in a potentially life-or-death situation, but I most certainly would be far more confident having it than not having any firearm.
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Old 02-09-2013, 23:17   #29
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I have my Ruger Mk III 'plinker' currently loaded with CCI Mini-Mags doing HD duty...
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:06   #30
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I suggest you are the one not understanding the dynamics of a gunfight @ close range. YOur red lined statements tell me you have little understanding. FWI, no one ever said a 22lr won't kill, but it is a very poor fight stopper. I have seen men shot thru the foot w/ 9mm & 40 & not fallen top the ground, ridiculous.
If you & the bg are smart, you are both moving. It's why I laugh @ statements like yours about delivering x shots while standing still, in good light @ a stationary target, or the oft used 2 to the body 1 to the head in the same range envirment. What you can do with a 22lr I can do w/ a 9mm or 45, so choosing the 22 over either is foolish. But hey, free country, carry what you like, just understand you could be far better armed for a serious confrontation. There is just no real reason to purposely choose a 22lr as a SD arm. Adequate & viable are not terms I want to bet my life on.
Listen, as far as I'm concerned you are certainly entitled to your opinion - No matter how far off the mark you happen to be; however, what makes you think that, between the two of us, you are the only one who is familiar with gun violence?

You can laugh all you want; but, before you start guffawing too loudly, you really ought to put your, 'mind into gear'. One more time, let's try to get it straight: I did NOT say that 22 LR is a, 'good stopper'. That fact you assumed. What I did say is that a 22 LR pistol CAN BE USED as an effective weapon; AND every police officer on the planet knows it, too! (Do you see the difference?)

You remind me of a conversation I once had with a member of the Israeli IDF. He said to me, 'I never worry about being outnumbered.' When I asked him, 'Why' he replied, 'Because if it's God's will that I must have enemies then I thank God that my enemies are Fedayeen.' Know what? That's exactly what I think of you and your presumed CQB, pistol gunfighting, 'expertise'.

A couple of other things: For more than a quarter of a century I was a highly skilled and very successful hunter. Surely you don't think that all of my shots were, 'at paper targets, standing still, and in good light'. Do you?

As for getting knocked off my feet by a glancing 22 LR bullet? I WAS STANDING THERE WITH MY BACK TO THE SHOOTER AND NOT EXPECTING TO BE HIT. This is NOT the same thing as going, 'toe-to-toe' with a committed opponent; nor did I say that it is. That's just one more assumption you laughed yourself into much too soon.)

I think we're done now.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:52   #31
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A .22 will kill, but it may take a couple of hours.
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:38   #32
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As stated earlier, I would prefer it to nothing. I'd rather shoot someone with a .22 than throw a rock at him.

One more thing to keep in mind here, which many people have mentioned, that the .22 can be lethal. Absolutely. But in many of those cases, it wasn't immediate. It wasn't a threat-stopper. Someone who is fatally wounded from a .22 may not know they are dead yet and keep on fighting for some time.
I agree 100% but this is also true for any handgun caliber. This link is very graphic but makes the point far better than me rambling about it. Warning, dead guy with bullet wounds.

http://catm.com/yabbfiles/Attachment...FBIAcademy.pdf
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:40   #33
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a 22 isn't optimal, however, richard ramirez used a .25 to kill his victims.

that's a .25....the round i wondered aloud if it would actually break skin.
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Old 02-10-2013, 14:28   #34
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If I am going to have to physically defend myself from somebody, I'd much rather they have a few 1/4" holes in their lungs first.

Not that I would count on a .22 being a guaranteed fight-ender, but I don't think it is going to help my assailant any.

Even out of a NAA mini revolver, it aint gonna tickle, and there is a nonzero chance of significant damage. According to some, at contact range the expanding muzzle gasses can do more damage than the actual bullet, but even if that isn't the case, I don't see the bullet improving the assailant's day.

Not that I do it often, but there are times I've pocket carried a NAA mini revolver and nothing else.
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Old 02-10-2013, 15:18   #35
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If I am going to have to physically defend myself from somebody, I'd much rather they have a few 1/4" holes in their lungs first.

Not that I would count on a .22 being a guaranteed fight-ender, but I don't think it is going to help my assailant any.

Even out of a NAA mini revolver, it aint gonna tickle, and there is a nonzero chance of significant damage. According to some, at contact range the expanding muzzle gasses can do more damage than the actual bullet, but even if that isn't the case, I don't see the bullet improving the assailant's day.

Not that I do it often, but there are times I've pocket carried a NAA mini revolver and nothing else.
So true. A couple of holes in the lungs (or heart) would be helpful.
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Old 02-10-2013, 19:23   #36
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a 22 isn't optimal, however, richard ramirez used a .25 to kill his victims.

that's a .25....the round i wondered aloud if it would actually break skin.
Some of his victims survived being shot in the head. Many of the ones he killed, he didn't stop at 'enough,' he stabbed dozens of times, or he nearly decapitated.

I find some reference that he used a .22, other source says he used a .44 magnum, hammers, butcher knives, even a sawed off shotgun - an unusual variety of weapons for a serial killer.
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Old 02-10-2013, 20:06   #37
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Shot placement! Shot placement! Shot placement! A .22 lr velocitor/stinger round going into a bad guys head several times in quick order is better than a single action .45 LC that misses 6 times. Is the .22 the best? Well, we can all agree it's not, but will it work in a pinch? Yes, with a heavier bullet and proper shot placement. Some folks say you have to shoot a deer with a 30-06, but I've cleanly taken whitetail with a 35# draw recurve before! SHOT PLACEMENT!

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Old 02-10-2013, 20:10   #38
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Some of his victims survived being shot in the head. Many of the ones he killed, he didn't stop at 'enough,' he stabbed dozens of times, or he nearly decapitated.

I find some reference that he used a .22, other source says he used a .44 magnum, hammers, butcher knives, even a sawed off shotgun - an unusual variety of weapons for a serial killer.
i hadn't heard th 44. mag part with ramirez. one serial used a 44 special ( david berkowitz) and one mass murderer used a 44 mag rifle (marc essex).
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Old 02-10-2013, 20:44   #39
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I sometimes carry a .25acp when i cant carry my G33. I am confident that up close and personal My .25 will eliminate a threat. Im not an idiot, And I have heard the " A buddy of a buddys 3rd cousin said he knew a guy" bullcrap. Yea the .25 just bounced off his cellphone or was found just under his skin and irritated him. Go ahead and get whacked by a .25 one time. I put 6 rounds thru a 1300 page phonebook 2 weeks ago. basic remington FMJ loads out of a FIE titan with a great barrel. SO lets cut the internet crap, A .22 will dust a guy, and the .25 will do it better. So i would feel comfortable using a .22 with enough rounds to be threatening....call it 5rds. Otherwise i want a frickin howitzer.
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Old 02-10-2013, 21:29   #40
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The first thing you have to engage is your brain. Yes if a .22 was my only option......maybe.

Year before last in my pharmacy one Sunday morning, I heard a scuffle and bodies crash into a counter. The manager hollered call 911 and come help me he has a weapon. Hmmmm those are words you dont want to hear. Actual I was carring but if you step into the middle of a robbery with a gun...That is your only option. On a hunch I picked up a claw hammer and stuffed it in my pants. I came around the conner both the robber and the manager were all ready bloody The manager had a head lock on the BG with a death grip The bad guy had a box cutter. He was slashing at the manager.

There were 5 customers trying to get out the front door, which the idot clerk had locked...? So we are locked in with this 6' 2" robber, my x army ranger manger engaged in hand to hand combat and I have a .357 magnum and a claw hammer. Which do you think was my weapon of choice in this choice?

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Old 02-10-2013, 21:43   #41
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Heads are hard, so are bones like ribs and sternums.

If all you have is a little .22 pocket pistol, and you are fighting for your life with it, add the opponent's soft neck to your list of good targets before you run out of ammo.

Nobody wants to bleed to death, and the neck is one of the most vulnerable targets for just about any weapon.
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Old 02-10-2013, 22:09   #42
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Heads are hard, so are bones like ribs and sternums.

If all you have is a little .22 pocket pistol, and you are fighting for your life with it, add the opponent's soft neck to your list of good targets before you run out of ammo.

Nobody wants to bleed to death, and the neck is one of the most vulnerable targets for just about any weapon.
Right. A 124 grain 9mm bullet traveling around 1200 fps has a lot better chance of penetrating bone than a 40 grain .22 slug traveling at whatever speed they do coming out of a short pistol barrel (possibly slower than the aforementioned 9mm round.)


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Old 02-10-2013, 22:39   #43
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A .22 will kill, but it may take a couple of hours.
Actually, I've seen more than a few real-life crime shows where a victim succumbed immediately or relatively quickly after being shot with a .22. I recall one incident where the person (don't recall if it was victim or perp) died almost immediately after only one .22 shot to the chest.
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Old 02-10-2013, 23:57   #44
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That's exactly what I think of you and your presumed CQB, pistol gunfighting, 'expertise'.

A.
I don't really give a crap what you think of me, I only point out that YOUR own words imply very little knowledge of the subject. Assination & hunting or death of anything was not the subject, but you brought it up. The question would the 22lr be effective or adequate for SD/HD or stiopping a voilent encounter. By almost anyones critera but yours, it is not. You brought up just how effective the 22lr could be because it knocked you off your feet w/ a hit in the ankle, You imply that it would work somehow the same in a SD/CQB situation & now you walk all that back. All good, I think most everyone gets where you are not coming from.
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Old 02-11-2013, 00:02   #45
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a 22 isn't optimal, however, richard ramirez used a .25 to kill his victims.

that's a .25....the round i wondered aloud if it would actually break skin.
Again, killing unarmed victims w/ anything is not a testimony of effectiveness @ stopping a fight. Ramirez killed most of his unarmed, non fighting victims in their sleep. A hammer would have been just as effective.
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Even out of a NAA mini revolver, it aint gonna tickle, and there is a nonzero chance of significant damage. According to some, at contact range the expanding muzzle gasses can do more damage than the actual bullet, but even if that isn't the case, I don't see the bullet improving the assailant's day.
At contact distance, a 4" folding fighting knife will be more effective, won't jamb & won't run out of ammo. The wounds inflicted will be lethal & almost instant fight stopper, hard to fight trying to hold in your internals w/ one hand. If you are counting on getting that close, I would rather have the knife than a NAA, & yes I own one, nice novelty, but not a good defensive weapon IMO, not even that close.
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A .22 lr velocitor/stinger round going into a bad guys head several times in quick order is better than a single action .45 LC that misses 6 times.
Man if I had $100 for everytimes some noob said this. It's pretty easy to make said headshot standing still @ 21ft, slow fire, in daylight & a stationary target. Now add low light, you moving, the target moving, & shootings some crappy little 25acp or other mouse gun with poor grip & no sights. My fav test for the internet commando, a 4" balloon on a 12" string @ a mere 21ft on a windy day. Draw, move & try getting even one headhsot? Yeay, get back to me on that one.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:54   #46
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Anyways, the original poster asked if a .22 lr will work. Answer is yes. Up close and put in the right spot it will. Is this my prefered caliber for self defense...no. My prefered weapon for home defense is a 12 guage shotgun, or perhaps a .223/5.56 mm carbine of some sort. Not a handgun. For conceled carry I prefer a .357 sig, .40 s&w, or .45 acp. I plan on getting a Glock 26 for carry and know the 9mm works. I maybe new to the forum, but new to firearms? Im a combat veteran and a paramedic. I have seen what small caliber rounds can do. Give me a .45 anyday over a .22lr! Heck, give me a .38 special! A .22 lr round will kill a human just as dead as anything... if proper shot placement is executed! Maybe a louisville slugger is a better choice for home defense, but maybe not. Hitting any small area from 21 feet is no easy task. I agree with you there, but I was thinking more along the lines of hand to hand combat distances. I will say there are much morr appropriate calibers for self defense! We all know that. I see you are a hunter, so you know the importance of shot placement. If a .22lr is all granny, or polly princess can shot accurately then go for it! Its better than nothing at all!
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:55   #47
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At contact distance, a 4" folding fighting knife will be more effective, won't jamb & won't run out of ammo. The wounds inflicted will be lethal & almost instant fight stopper, hard to fight trying to hold in your internals w/ one hand. If you are counting on getting that close, I would rather have the knife than a NAA, & yes I own one, nice novelty, but not a good defensive weapon IMO, not even that close.
I'd rather have both. I'd rather have the chance to put even single extra hole in him BEFORE knife range than count on going knife-to-knife. Even if you win a knife fight, they still got close enough to hit/grab/cut/stab you in the process. If that is going to happen, like I said, hopefully they'll have some extra 1/4" holes on their lungs by the time they get that close. If it slows him down at all, that gives me an edge. If you don't have that "novelty" .22, you can't do anything to them until they are close enough to do something to you.

And there are other threats where that little bit of range makes a big difference. I know a man who lived outside Baton Rouge who made frequent use of mini-revolvers on poisonous snakes - in his own back yard. Try doing that with your knife.

I've never had a stray or rabid dog get aggressive enough to need putting down, but I know people who have - and if the dog is close enough for your knife, it is already too close.

Yes, a .22 is not the end-all, be-all of self defense.surprise: nothing is. But it ha its place and its uses.
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Old 02-11-2013, 14:23   #48
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And there are other threats where that little bit of range makes a big difference. I know a man who lived outside Baton Rouge who made frequent use of mini-revolvers on poisonous snakes - in his own back yard. Try doing that with your knife.
I find a shovel works best for snakes, but hey, you want to waste 22lr killing a snake, fine w/ me. Again, I can't think of a single isntance where a 22lr/25acp mousegun would be preferable to just about anything else.
Quote:
Even if you win a knife fight, they still got close enough to hit/grab/cut/stab you in the process. If that is going to happen, like I said, hopefully they'll have some extra 1/4" holes on their lungs by the time they get that close. If it slows him down at all, that gives me an edge. If you don't have that "novelty" .22, you can't do anything to them until they are close enough to do something to you.
By the time you deploy your little NAA, you get one shot. If it doesn't hit CNS, yor attacker i son you & cutting the crap out of you with his knife while you try to get to yours. No, again, if you need/want to carry a gun, carry a gun not a novelty. A micro Kahr comceals just as easily & is probably 5x more effective @ any range.
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Old 02-11-2013, 14:51   #49
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Any gun is preferable to none.

If a .22 is what you have, use it. Do a magazine dump and a reload. Wife has a .32 (for personal reasons) and I give her the same advice.

I personally choose to carry something more substantial. You do what you have to do. Good luck.
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Old 02-11-2013, 16:51   #50
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Any gun is preferable to none.

If a .22 is what you have, use it. Do a magazine dump and a reload. Wife has a .32 (for personal reasons) and I give her the same advice.

I personally choose to carry something more substantial. You do what you have to do. Good luck.
Well, maybe. If you have a butt release, like the Ruger, good luck w/ any mag change in a hurry. Really, if the wife can handle a 22lr, she can handle a 4" 38sp, much better weapon choice.
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