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Old 02-12-2013, 13:26   #61
digilo
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.22 is a waste of time and space. If you can shoot a .22, you can learn to shoot a gun in an effective caliber. If you take your safety and the safety of loved ones seriously, learn to shoot an effective caliber, minumum .38/9mm.

All this talk about it being better than nothing- it's not, because it lulls you into a false sense of security. And the joke about "no one wants to get shot with ____ caliber" is ridiculous.

Lets re-phrase the question this way: since most SD scenarios involve an average of 2-3 shots, we'll give it the 3.

A' 6'2" 250 lb ex-con is in the room with your 11 yr old (daughter, granddaughter, whatever) and you get those 3 shots to stop him.

or

A 90 lb pitt bull has your (daughter, gradndaughter) cornered and is getting ready to lunge at her throat. You have those 3 .22 shots. Still feel like it's enough?

You have to STOP a threat. This isn't TV. No BG is going to see your little .22 gun, and rationally think, "Hmm, I calculate my odds at exiting this scenario as being disadvantageous. I think I shall terminate this endeavor." So that mess about "no one wants to get shot with blah blah" goes right out the window.
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Old 02-12-2013, 13:40   #62
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Originally Posted by digilo View Post
.22 is a waste of time and space. If you can shoot a .22, you can learn to shoot a gun in an effective caliber. If you take your safety and the safety of loved ones seriously, learn to shoot an effective caliber, minumum .38/9mm.

All this talk about it being better than nothing- it's not, because it lulls you into a false sense of security. And the joke about "no one wants to get shot with ____ caliber" is ridiculous.

Lets re-phrase the question this way: since most SD scenarios involve an average of 2-3 shots, we'll give it the 3.

A' 6'2" 250 lb ex-con is in the room with your 11 yr old (daughter, granddaughter, whatever) and you get those 3 shots to stop him.

or

A 90 lb pitt bull has your (daughter, gradndaughter) cornered and is getting ready to lunge at her throat. You have those 3 .22 shots. Still feel like it's enough?

You have to STOP a threat. This isn't TV. No BG is going to see your little .22 gun, and rationally think, "Hmm, I calculate my odds at exiting this scenario as being disadvantageous. I think I shall terminate this endeavor." So that mess about "no one wants to get shot with blah blah" goes right out the window.
I agree with you. The .22 is a very weak caliber. I carry a G17 9mm.
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Old 02-12-2013, 14:32   #63
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Or this. In your night stand, you have a 22lr target pistol w/ 10shots, a 38sp 4" w/ 6shots of 148grLWC, one late night attacker, which do you grab to defend yourself or your family? Yeah, I doubt most would say 22lr. I can teach ANYONE to shoot a 38sp 4" gun effectively in one day. No diff headshot, just COM & go. You will have one chance to get it right, don't even think of handicapping yourself w/ a 22lr, foolish. As always, this is JMO, as teh OP was asking for opinions.
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Old 02-12-2013, 14:41   #64
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Man if I had $100 for everytimes some noob said this. It's pretty easy to make said headshot standing still @ 21ft, slow fire, in daylight & a stationary target. Now add low light, you moving, the target moving, & shootings some crappy little 25acp or other mouse gun with poor grip & no sights. My fav test for the internet commando, a 4" balloon on a 12" string @ a mere 21ft on a windy day. Draw, move & try getting even one headhsot? Yeay, get back to me on that one.
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Let's not make silly assumptions about somebody's skill based off the number of posts they have. When you get out of the Beverly Hills Gun Club and go do some training at 29 Palms CA MCAGCC, and then get some in the Suck several times. Well get back to me on that one! I apologize in advance for this condesending remark, but for all I know you could be a combat veteren too! I sure you're an excellent shot. We all get it. A .22lr round is not really sufficient for putting an assailant down for keeps, and shot placement is critical in any scenerio with just about any caliber weapon! Would I purposely use a .22lr for self defense? NO! Fred 338 is right...there are much better choices!
i proved a point to an illinformed shooter once by releasing two balloons (bigger than your head sized) on the ground with only a slight breeze. it took him six shots from his 1911 to get two balloons at about 15 feet.

he was/is a damn good shooter, but has misconceptions about hitting a moving target that moves where it wants.
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Old 02-12-2013, 14:46   #65
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If you HAVE to use a .22lr handgun, use a revolver. I love the round for plinking and fun stuff, I will attest it can work in a pinch.....but like Fred says, there's way better choices.
Even the tusty ammo like CCI mini mag will dud once in a while....not good in a tiny pistol that's already hard to manipulate quickly and even worse if it doesn't have an extractor (many don't).
Still, I won't sell the round short when a person is skilled in using it....I remember John Hinkley used a cheap .22lr revolver and put three people on the ground in less than 2 seconds with a fourth being carted off to the hospital. No indications he was some skilled badass, either.
some good points here, particularly, if you get a dud round with a .22lr you instinctively pull the rigger and have a fresh round, not so with a semi auto....

if we are teaching to the lowest skill level a revolver out shines a semi-auto.
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Old 02-12-2013, 15:22   #66
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Also, fwiw, in light of the comments on the .22LRs reliability, I used to own a little .25ACP Titan. It would fit in a vest pocket of a suit, or a jeans pocket. .25ACP, being a centerfire cartridge, will ignite more reliably than the rimfire .22LR.

Still, I had a chance to get a KelTec P32, and compared them, and the P32 was only marginally bigger, roughly the same weight, so I sold the .25 and kept the .32. The KelTec .380 (P3AT) is the same physical size as the P32, so there's really not much reason to go with the .32 over the .380. And .380 is the absolute minimum I would carry, or advise others to carry, for backup. Remington offers a big fat 102 gr Golden Saber load in .380 that would be ideal for BUG.
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Old 02-12-2013, 15:26   #67
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Was passing buy and saw this was still going on, and thought, why not !


I've shown this before, but so what, I'm doin 'er again. AND I got no real point here, just killing a few minutes before I got to go again.

This 1/8" hardned cold rolled steel plate was shot with 2 FMJ 9mm rds 124grs at 25 yds out of a G17, out behind the ranch house for grins. Thus you see two pass through holes..

The big "BUMPS," you see are the result of two shots from " 3 feet " away using a NAA mini Revolver in FMJ 22 MAGNUM, with a 1 5/8" barrel.

What does this prove ? Not alot, except I personally thought it was pretty cool that out of the gun (pictured below) that a FMJ 22 Magnum out of a 1 5/8" barrel at 3 feet, made these dang big dents in this hardend steel plate.

Now, at a poker table distance 3-4 feet, I have NO doubt this will go through a 'noggin'. I also 'know this' because of shooting through 'another noggin' (non human) with it....

BTW... Noggin shots are not that easy usually in a SD senerio. To much stuff going on. Can it be done ? Yes ! But it is usually far more difficult than one thinks.

My mention of a head shot here in this situation is being in a head lock by the BG, or down on the ground face to face with him or in the clinches etc, etc, where I "Know" I can place that barrel at his head or under his chin, etc (let the reader understand)

As the man said a few post up about the baloons. Good point !

Will it kill a man ? Yes ! Would I use it as primary ? No !

Have I ever stuck the little beast in my cowboy shirt pocket and snapped it shut, "While carrying my primary M1911 45acp" ? Yes ! A few times.

After shooting steel plates, and other assorted mess out here with it in 22 MAG, and seeing what the little FMJ pill does and will go through, I am convinced, and I "know" it will go through "noggins."

I would never suggest it as a primary SD weapon, or a go have confidence 'in it alone weapon'. Nor would I sugggest a 25acp, 32, 380 auto, and barely care for a 9mm.

But all that being said. In all the media I have fired it through, and it holding 1/2 groups at 7yds. And using a FMJ in '22 MAGNUM" (not lr). I am not afraid to drop it in my shrit pocket (when in a very specific place that I feel the call for that) and if something just went south (and never has) with my M1911 45acp, I would not hesitate to use the 5 shots from this "22 mag."

They penetrate like crazy in a FMJ (notice no mention of JHP here ever in a mouse gun) and it would only , i said "only" be for "man I am in a real mess with this guy situation and my primary went south". And then I would rather fall back on a larger back up, but I don't like packing around two heavy guns "when in a town or a city"

Now, I hardly ever do this, but am confident in what I jsut said in "that type" of senerio. BUT, now this being said, I usually just have a really good "self assist opening" Kershaw Tanto/serrated razor sharp blade in my jeans. Knives are very nasty !

So, I still say, friends do not let friends carry mouse guns... (everything below 9mm). BUT, only in the senerio above do i once in a blue moon drop the little 22mag 5shot in the shirt pocket, "because" I do "know" it will and does penetrate very very deeply in very hard and soft and mushy things...

But so does the Kershaw !

FWIW !
Be safe amigo's...


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Stay safe all, and use a larger caliber....... !





















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Old 02-12-2013, 15:45   #68
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Nice Little .22 Revolver

It has a use somewhere for something!
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Old 02-12-2013, 15:51   #69
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Nice Little .22 Revolver !

Thanks...It really is pretty cool and alot of fun, but after packin this around all day on the ranch, it feels very weird !

Caliber Corner

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WOW ! HAHA !

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In town Carry

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Stay safe amigo !














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Old 02-12-2013, 16:23   #70
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Thanks...It really is pretty cool and alot of fun, but after packin this around all day on the ranch, it feels very weird !

Caliber Corner

Caliber Corner

WOW ! HAHA !

Caliber Corner



In town Carry

Caliber Corner








Stay safe amigo !














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Old 02-12-2013, 17:13   #71
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My order of protection: pistol in rimfire to pistol in center fire to rifle in rimfire to rifle in center fire to shotgun. Only use pistol in order to get to larger pistol to get to rifle to get to shotgun. If .22 was a good stopper, why would the military carry anything more costly?
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Old 02-12-2013, 17:34   #72
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My order of protection: pistol in rimfire to pistol in center fire to rifle in rimfire to rifle in center fire to shotgun. Only use pistol in order to get to larger pistol to get to rifle to get to shotgun. If .22 was a good stopper, why would the military carry anything more costly?
Or anyone??
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:12   #73
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My order of protection: pistol in rimfire to pistol in center fire to rifle in rimfire to rifle in center fire to shotgun. Only use pistol in order to get to larger pistol to get to rifle to get to shotgun. If .22 was a good stopper, why would the military carry anything more costly?
At 400 or 500 meters no handgun is a "good stopper". Military firearms need to reach out and touch someone 1/4 mile away.
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:22   #74
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Would you feel confident in using a .22 in a defensive situation of that was all you had available at the time?
Heck NO, I would not feel "confident".
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:48   #75
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For cripes sake let's give it a rest.

If .22lr is the only firearm at my disposal either I will resort to that asset or not.

Personally speaking I would dump whatever .22lr rounds at my disposal into the attacker before resorting to additional means to protect myself.

Is there anyone who disputes this analysis?
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:57   #76
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Yeah. It's probably a pointless conversation if you really think about it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 23:43   #77
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Their is just so much b.s. that goes around about the .22 it is unreal. No it is not as effective at making bigger holes than the service calibers. But I've actually heard statements such as "if you shoot someone with a .22 you just make them mad". If you unload a .22 that holds 10+1 rounds of Stingers or other hot .22 ammo rapid fire into someones neck, chest, and face they are going down.
We all know that everyone from hitmen, to the Israeli Air Marshals, Mossad agents, and our own armed forces have used .22's for a long time. Suppreesed .22's were used by our OSS in WWII because they were so quiet and if used right killed quickly and effectively. Not two days or two hours later. Years ago an Israeli Air Marshall held off several attackers trying to hijack an airliner with AK47's with his Beretta Model 70.
He did it by aggressive use of force and multiple well placed shots. Multiple hits especially to the head and neck will produce quite a bit of shock and trauma and usually bring someone down fast. It's been done over and over again. One friend who recently said the ".22 will only make them mad" was corrected by a friend of mine who grew up on a farm. They would kill hogs, cows, and other large animals with one wellplaced shot to the head from a .22 short!
No it is not ideal. But a local retired D.C. Cop has told us almost all the murders he investigated in D.C.were either .22's or 9mm FMJ. Another supposedly poor stopper. Everyone he investigated (remember murders not survivors) was usually DRT after being shot singular or multiple times with these calibers. No not a great choice for self defense. No handgun is. And yes bigger is better. But don't perpetuate stupid stories that .22's aren't very effective.
Go look at the attempted murder of President Reagan by a man with a .22 revolver. It was caught on camera. Mr. Brady and a police officer were hit by the .22 rounds and watch how fast they dropped. Watch it a few times. President Reagan almost died because they had trouble finding the bullet that wounded him and the damage it did. They all went down fast. Watch it and think about it before you knock how effective a .22 can be.
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Old 02-13-2013, 00:54   #78
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I have an old book written by a retired Alaskan Fish & Game officer. He said he carried a .22 revolver in the woods quite a bit. He mentioned it was a good killing gun. I purchased my S&W 317 as a back up since it only weighs 11 ounces and holds 8 rounds. A 50 round box of shells does not weigh much either.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:02   #79
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I have an old book written by a retired Alaskan Fish & Game officer. He said he carried a .22 revolver in the woods quite a bit. He mentioned it was a good killing gun. I purchased my S&W 317 as a back up since it only weighs 11 ounces and holds 8 rounds. A 50 round box of shells does not weigh much either.
I can't imagine in Alaska .22lr is good for killing anything but rodents or small game.

I don't second guess your choice for a backup, so what do you carry as your primary sidearm up in God's country? My guess is either a 10mm or .44 Magnum.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:48   #80
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And Reagan didn't even know he was hit, Brady took a lucky shoot to the head & survived & the FBI agent was not completely out of the fight. Remember, they were ambushed, not fighting back, not hopped up on drugs or sensory deprived by alcohol. Sure, it works, but adequate would be a kind adjective.
If your ability is truely amazing & you can gaurantee a headshot on a bobbing/moving 4" circle on demand, in low light, then you can count yourself as one ofthe top shooters on the planet. I would wager, quite a large one too, that most shooters can't hit a moving 4" object on demand in say 1.5sec @ 21ft & do it 99 out of 100. I would also wager most have never tried it either. I don't care how much training you had in the mil or LE, unless you are shooting almost daily, that skill level decreases w/ each passing week. You just think you are as good as you were on your last best day @ the range.
I'm grounded in reality, I see how expert & master level shooters can & do miss. They shoot 4-5x a week, not just plinking but drilling & they can't gaurantee the shot 99 out of 100. I could & would cetainly fight w/ a 22lr if it was all I had, but to choose one, why?
Not sure why you think I disagree.

As far as the Reagan attempt; what happened....happened. Three guys went to the ground, fast.
Watch the friggin video. THe lesson *I* take from that is simple: Getting shot by any gun SUCKS.

Does that endorse the .22lr as a defense round? No.
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