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Old 02-12-2013, 09:50   #51
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
There are plenty of people that have taken LSD and had similar experiences. If the consciousness (or "soul" if you prefer) is a tangible thing that lies beyond our "physical realm" then why can it so easily be manipulated by psychoactive drugs, neural electrical implants and other sources of stimuli? I would submit that this doctor is simply no longer objective on the topic having experienced powerful hallucinations during a deep coma.
Doctor Alexander considered your hypothesis himself, and rejected it (see Appendix B in his book):

"Endogenous glutamate blockade with excitotoxicity, mimicking the hallucinatory anesthetic, ketamine (occasionally used to explain NDEs in general). I occasionally saw the effects of ketamine used as an anesthetic during the earlier part of my neurosurgical career at Harvard Medical School. The hallucinatory state it induced was most chaotic and unpleasant, and bore no resemblance whatsoever to my experience in coma.

N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) "dump" (from the pineal, or elsewhere in the brain). DMT, a naturally occurring serotonin agonist (specifically at the 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors), causes vivid hallucinations and a dreamlike state. I am personally familiar with drug experiences related to serotonin agonist/antagonists (that is, LSD, mescaline) from my teen years in the early 1970s. I have had no personal experience with DMT but have seen patients under its influence. The rich ultra-reality would still require fairly intact auditory and visual neocortex as target regions in which to generate such a rich audiovisual experience as I had in coma. Prolonged coma due to bacterial meningitis had badly damaged my neocortex, which is where all of that serotonin from the raphe nuclei in the brainstem (or DMT, a serotonin agonist) would have had effects on visual/auditory experience. But my cortex was off, and the DMT would have had no place in the brain to act. The DMT hypothesis failed on the basis of the ultra-reality of the audio-visual experience, and lack of cortex on which to act."
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:59   #52
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Originally Posted by FriarTuck View Post
Doctor Alexander considered your hypothesis himself, and rejected it (see Appendix B in his book):

"But my cortex was off, and the DMT would have had no place in the brain to act. The DMT hypothesis failed on the basis of the ultra-reality of the audio-visual experience, and lack of cortex on which to act."
He doesn't know that. Time has little meaning in a state like that. The entire experience that he remembers could have occured while his cortex was shutting down or when it was starting back up. There is no way for him to place the experience during the time when he was deepest in his coma.
CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:26   #53
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I never had a bad experience, I just couldn't believe the stories any longer. The flood and 2 of every animal, talking snake, etc.

The Mrs. on the other hand did have a bad one. She went to Church with a friend when she was 14 or 15. At one point near the end of the service they asked her and a couple of others to come up and be recognized, then asked if they were ready to turn themselves over to the lord, etc. and when she said no they commenced to berate her there in front of the congregation. She left in tears and never went back to any church.

Fast forward 20 yrs. we get a phone call from her father. There were a few folks doing the door to door thing in the neighborhood. They stopped and talked to the my father in law for a while and handed over a pamphlet at which point he recognized the name. So he told them the story about his daughter and explained he would have no problem doing time for giving them the oppritunity to turn the other cheek by stomping the Jesus out of them if they didn't exit the property post haste and never return. Gotta love him.
A broad brush paints a lousy picture, lacking the nuance and details of life's realities. As a young man my paints were black and white, with age came a palette holding many shades of gray.
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Old 02-12-2013, 14:58   #54
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Posted by SIGlock:
Let me tell you a little secret: The Bible is written mostly for the Saved. This book is not written mostly for the Lost to understand.
If you substitute “gullible” for “saved” and “skeptics” for “lost” and “blindly accept” for “understand”, I’d agree.

And here’s a little secret for you: If an eight year old kid can see the Bible for the absurd crock that it is (and his Sunday School teachers can’t answer a few simple questions about Genesis) that ought to tell you something about the critical thinking skills of the “saved”.
Every time you disagree with me, God kills a kitten.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:14   #55
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