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Old 02-13-2013, 11:00   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
damnant quod non intellegunt
I am talking process and others are talking emotion.

It is the reason I am constantly in the middle on GT. The cop haters think the cops are always wrong. The cop lovers always think the cops are right.

I believe in that the system works most of the time, WHEN the system is used.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:05   #462
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Quote:
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I am talking process and others are talking emotion.

It is the reason I am constantly in the middle on GT. The cop haters think the cops are always wrong. The cop lovers always think the cops are right.

I believe in that the system works most of the time, WHEN the system is used.
Do you have relevant real world experience/training/knowledge?


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Old 02-13-2013, 11:12   #463
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It is the reason I am constantly in the middle on GT. The cop haters think the cops are always wrong. The cop lovers always think the cops are right.
What about those in and around law enforcement who are slow to condemn until all facts are discovered and investigated? Where do they fall into the order?
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:43   #464
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Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
I am talking process and others are talking emotion.

It is the reason I am constantly in the middle on GT. The cop haters think the cops are always wrong. The cop lovers always think the cops are right.

I believe in that the system works most of the time, WHEN the system is used.
What system are you speaking of.....
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:59   #465
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Seems pretty likely to me that, do to the threat presented by Dorner (a threat established by his behavior last week and yesterday), the San Bernardino SWAT team attempted to induce his surrender with CS gas.

No drones.

No napalm.

CS gas. A long accepted tool in the tactical toolbox.

They pulled off walls to expose him, and to reduce the risk to their deputies.

A shot was heard. Quite possibly Dorner shot himself.

A fire began.

Why?

No one knows yet, for certain. Arson investigators will determine the cause and origin of the fire. Maybe it was inadvertently due to the CS deployment, or maybe Dorner somehow caused it.

In any event, it seems to me, based on the initial reporting, that LE was trying to induce surrender, while mitigating the risk to their deputies and did not use direct lethal force on Dorner...meaning, no one intentionally shot him down, nor directly engaged him.

Yet, predictably, the forever Righteously Indignant types here, always in search of an example of government over-reaching, want to harp on this situation.

Ever hear of the boy who cried wolf? Harping on situations like this prematurely---before the logical investigations are completed and the facts known---and you lose all credibility.

Who will listen when you are complaining of real government over-reaching if you exhaust your credibility with knee jerk and ill informed accusations such as in this thread?
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:07   #466
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A fire began.

Why?
Oh that's easy...... I think this is how the hosemonkeys explain it now

Cop Talk

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Old 02-13-2013, 13:02   #467
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The fire started because police tossed in burners. There's audio of it on youtube. One cop is saying "burn mother*******"

Somebody's writing a check for that stupid comment.
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Old 02-13-2013, 13:29   #468
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So can the home owners file arson charges? I mean someone burned everything they owned...
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Old 02-13-2013, 13:40   #469
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Odd...where I live, Police Scanners are useless. They made changes last year and I believe it's all encrypted. Just seems odd that CA would be further behind the times.

Not questioning the accuracy of the audio files, etc. Just a curious observation.
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Old 02-13-2013, 13:47   #470
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Odd...where I live, Police Scanners are useless. They made changes last year and I believe it's all encrypted. Just seems odd that CA would be further behind the times.

Not questioning the accuracy of the audio files, etc. Just a curious observation.
Some areas are and some aren't. The LAPD has digital encrypted radios so even the $$$$ digital scanners are useless. Other surrounding agencies have not switched over to digital, its really really expensive. Range is better on some of the old systems too which is better for the rural areas like Big Bear.
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Old 02-13-2013, 13:49   #471
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Odd...where I live, Police Scanners are useless. They made changes last year and I believe it's all encrypted. Just seems odd that CA would be further behind the times.

Not questioning the accuracy of the audio files, etc. Just a curious observation.
You can get scanners that will pick up trunking radio systems.
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Old 02-13-2013, 13:49   #472
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So can the home owners file arson charges? I mean someone burned everything they owned...
I see what you did there.
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Old 02-13-2013, 13:52   #473
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I am talking process and others are talking emotion.

It is the reason I am constantly in the middle on GT. The cop haters think the cops are always wrong. The cop lovers always think the cops are right.

I believe in that the system works most of the time, WHEN the system is used.
As RussP said, some us reserve judgement until the facts are assembled. Just like Sandy Hook. In any incident, there's a lot of emotion, rush to judgement, errors in reporting, etc.

I don't think any of us sitting at a computer can determine whether the police took actions that were appropriate or not.

Based on the facts so far, I think I'd be roasting hot dogs over his burning corpse if I was the father of the daughter that he murdered and later taunted the father. The man was a sick bastard. I wouldn't condone the actions of the cops if they intentionally prevented him from surrendering and killed him. However I won't mourn his loss either.

Let's see the facts. For example, there are reports that he tried to leave and "was pushed back into the cabin". Did that really happen? What means were used to "push him back inside"? Was he armed and trying to leave...then LE shot at him & forced him back inside? Who knows.

Let's be mindful of one thing. The cops didn't cause this whole scene. They were hunting this man for a reason. His actions put himself in a situation where he inevitably lost his life (assuming he was the charred corpse that they found).
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Old 02-13-2013, 13:56   #474
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But not for the actions of Dorner, Dorner would still be alive.
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Old 02-13-2013, 14:04   #475
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I notice the department re-opened his case, but are they just going to investigate themselves again?

So......coverup #2 and all forgotten?
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Old 02-13-2013, 14:10   #476
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I notice the department re-opened his case, but are they just going to investigate themselves again?

So......coverup #2 and all forgotten?
Hello, troll.
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Old 02-13-2013, 14:10   #477
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It's a fair question.

They'd have some credibility if they opened it to an outside investigation......an impartial one.

ACLU? NLRB?

Last edited by Seriously?; 02-13-2013 at 14:13..
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Old 02-13-2013, 14:11   #478
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Oh that's easy...... I think this is how the hosemonkeys explain it now

Cop Talk

Well, true: the fire triangle theory in practice...
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Old 02-13-2013, 14:11   #479
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Roasting hot dogs over his burning corpse . I know it's wrong, the guy was obviously broken . But somehow, I like that message .... Some things are worth dying for , this was not one of them . Some things are worth killing for , this (Dorner)
was one of them . I have no sympathy for him .
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Old 02-13-2013, 14:20   #480
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Uh oh, looks like the progressives will need another hero to vent their anti-cop anti-law message. Who will step up to help fight da man.
Now why would anyone wanna roast a hot dog over a rotting POS?

Prayers to the victims families. For the CA LEOs out there, thank you for your service.
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