Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2013, 19:19   #41
Stlbrian
Senior Member
 
Stlbrian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahBassKicker View Post
I just bought a box of Hornady Critical Duty 175 grain 40 S&W for my 23 for home defense. Is this a good choice? Never have shot this particular round before, any input out there?
According to the manufacturer critical duty is designed to operate in a full sized handgun.

Critical defense meanwhile is specifically designed for shorter barreled CCW style weapons, such as the G23 that you and I carry.

http://www.hornady.com/support/criti...itical-defense

I took the word of the folks that make the round and settled on the critical defense for mine.
__________________
I would agree with you, but then we would both be wrong!
Stlbrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 21:59   #42
FLIPPER 348
Happy Member
 
FLIPPER 348's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lyle WA
Posts: 23,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkavaboy View Post
You and people like you have been guzzling the FBI's Kool-Aid for decades and you still don't understand basic truths that are so self evident; blocks of ballistic gello do not and can not simulate, let alone duplicate, human tissue.

Period. End of argument.

....only you seem to be arguing
FLIPPER 348 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 04:50   #43
jhc37013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
If only I could find the new 220gr +P .45 ACP version. I would definitely pick up about 60 rounds and check it out.
I was very excited to find two boxes at a LGS and shot all of them through my G30SF and XDs. I don't know how they do in gelatin and don't care because the round was very snappy, recoil never bothered me until I tried this round and follow up shots came slow, best word I can describe this round is violent. I did not expect that and not sure why it's like that because the specs are on par with other +p ammo, I guess specs never tell it all.

I will stick with PDX1 and TAP FPD.
jhc37013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 15:53   #44
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
By the time something is "proven" in the field, it is outdated.
That's right. The 9x19 round took decades to be acceptable, and only one failure to make it obsolete (The great Miami shootout)
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2014, 14:24   #45
hunter 111
Senior Member
 
hunter 111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: TRAVEL -
Posts: 1,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkavaboy View Post
IMO it's a poor choice to use any unproven ammo for SD. And Critical Duty/Critical Defense is just that: Unproven.
You are unbelievable

this ammo is good stuff
__________________
"The law isn't necessarily justice nor is justice necessarily lawful "
hunter 111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2014, 14:25   #46
hunter 111
Senior Member
 
hunter 111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: TRAVEL -
Posts: 1,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhc37013 View Post
I was very excited to find two boxes at a LGS and shot all of them through my G30SF and XDs. I don't know how they do in gelatin and don't care because the round was very snappy, recoil never bothered me until I tried this round and follow up shots came slow, best word I can describe this round is violent. I did not expect that and not sure why it's like that because the specs are on par with other +p ammo, I guess specs never tell it all.

I will stick with PDX1 and TAP FPD.
you can stick with mild stuff

violent recoil = effective === simple physics
__________________
"The law isn't necessarily justice nor is justice necessarily lawful "
hunter 111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2014, 16:22   #47
j3k
Member
 
j3k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 87
Underwood ammo is a better choice IMO. It is more likely to open up on a living organism. The extra velocity and higher energy will most likely create more trauma. It's cheaper too. Buffalo bore has a bonded version as well if that's important to you.
j3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2014, 16:28   #48
Dalton Wayne
CLM Number 239
Epic mustache
 
Dalton Wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 13,510
Send a message via MSN to Dalton Wayne Send a message via Skype™ to Dalton Wayne
I carry the hornady Z-max Zombie round which I believe is the same round with a green tip instead of red works great in my Glock 27
__________________
Sometimes I wrestle with my demons, sometimes we just snuggle
Regards
DW
Dalton Wayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2014, 16:51   #49
happyguy
Man, I'm Pretty
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: You can't get here from there!
Posts: 15,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkavaboy View Post
Bullets dug out of human beings rarely if ever look like the picture perfect expanded bullets cut out of ballistic gel. Shooting bullets into gel cannot indicate how that same bullet will react in human flesh and blood nor can it indicate how quickly it will incapacitate a human being. Two examples:

1) The 9x19mm 115JHP+P+ and the 357Mag 125JHP have been used in Law Enforcement service for numerous decades and have seen a lot of use on all kinds of people and under all kinds of situations. Both these loads have an extensive proven street record of putting BG's down immediately and with very few shots being needed. And yet the FBI (and their followers) continue to disregard these loads as being "worthy" of use because they fail the FBI's 12" minimum penetration in gel. Hmm. Damn effective on the streets under various conditions; doesn't meet or exceed minimum qualifications in ballistic gel. Works on street; not in gel. Figure that one out yourself...

2) Eugene Wolberg and his testing of the 9x19mm Win 147JHP in ballistic gel and comparison to actual shootings. In his study Wolberg concluded that 10% ballistic gel equalled human tissue. Major flaw in his tests: He had the San Diego Coroner's office CHERRY PICK the shootings that he used in his study in order to prove his theory as valid! Wolberg EXCLUDED any and all shootings that would have voided his theory. Even the esteemed dentist DocGKR admitted to the cherry picking event on a thread in the Beretta Forum some years ago.

But Hey, if people want to blindly believe that ballistic gel = human tissue and vise versa, have fun.

And in regards to "shot placement", that is a complete fantasy. Even "highly trained" LEO's across this nation can't "place their shots", and rely more on firing numerous rounds to incapacitate the BG's than shot placement. Think the average untrained civilian is going to do better under the adrenaline dump of Fight or Flight? Do or Die? Even top competition shooters who burn up tens of thousands of rounds every year in training will drop a round or two during competitions. In personal SD shootings, one aims for center mass or what ever portion of the BG's body is exposed and you hope that the bullet(s) strike where it will incapacitate the BG's action the quickest. If shot placement was truely KING, then there would be no reason for deadly force because every cop and armed citizen would easily be able to literally shoot the gun or knife out of the attacker's hands or other such nonsense. Skill with a SD firearm is needed to be able to get the bullets on target, but it's pure fantasy to believe that your average, and even the above average, gun carrier has the skills to surgically place their shots on a moving target while under a physical life threatening attack and at the same time experiencing their base human instinct of fight or flight.
I carry 9BPLE in my P7 but it doesn't matter for squat unless I put them where they need to go.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
Proverbs 21:31 The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but victory is of the LORD.

"I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive at death safely."

Last edited by happyguy; 05-10-2014 at 16:52..
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2014, 20:26   #50
rock_castle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 837
My guess is if you find yourself in an SD situation and have to depend on the Critical Duty to stop the threat, it will perform just fine.
rock_castle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 04:49   #51
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 13,009


Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
I carry 9BPLE in my P7 but it doesn't matter for squat unless I put them where they need to go.

Regards,
Happyguy
Those 9BPLE must heat up that P7 quick!
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
4949shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 07:21   #52
happyguy
Man, I'm Pretty
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: You can't get here from there!
Posts: 15,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4949shooter View Post
Those 9BPLE must heat up that P7 quick!
It's usually time to take a break after about 50 rounds or so, but when I go to the range I'm usually shooting the 115 grain FMJ stuff.

Shooting the cheap stuff I can go about 100 rounds before I have to be careful where I place my trigger finger.

Personally I find it a good check that keeps me from turning a practice session into a blasting session. The break helps me to keep the reason I went to the range in focus.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
Proverbs 21:31 The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but victory is of the LORD.

"I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive at death safely."
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 07:29   #53
happyguy
Man, I'm Pretty
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: You can't get here from there!
Posts: 15,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
The S&W Shield isn't rated for +P ammunition?
The Shield is rated for SAAMI spec ammo and it was designed around the .40 S&W so I think it is probably a pretty robust design.

Having said that, I have seen some pictures on the internet with fired cases that had some interesting bulges reminiscent of the early Glock .40's, but fired from Shield 9's and 40's. I think there may be some chamber issues with individual guns.

I have shot a little +P+ 9BPLE out of mine and it functioned normally and the cases looked fine. The cases from my .40 looked fine also. That is why I think it may only be a problem with individual guns. Maybe Smith had a run of bad barrels in both calibers?

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
Proverbs 21:31 The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but victory is of the LORD.

"I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive at death safely."

Last edited by happyguy; 05-11-2014 at 07:43..
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 09:34   #54
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
The Shield is rated for SAAMI spec ammo and it was designed around the .40 S&W so I think it is probably a pretty robust design.

Having said that, I have seen some pictures on the internet with fired cases that had some interesting bulges reminiscent of the early Glock .40's, but fired from Shield 9's and 40's. I think there may be some chamber issues with individual guns.

I have shot a little +P+ 9BPLE out of mine and it functioned normally and the cases looked fine. The cases from my .40 looked fine also. That is why I think it may only be a problem with individual guns. Maybe Smith had a run of bad barrels in both calibers?

Regards,
Happyguy
I recall reading some threads about .40S&W Shield models blowing up but none about the 9mm version. Does the 9mm Shield manual state it's okay to shoot +P ammo or does it caution against it?
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 09:42   #55
happyguy
Man, I'm Pretty
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: You can't get here from there!
Posts: 15,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
I recall reading some threads about .40S&W Shield models blowing up but none about the 9mm version. Does the 9mm Shield manual state it's okay to shoot +P ammo or does it caution against it?
The Shield manual states that all SAAMI spec ammo is OK, but that use of +P ammo may require more frequent service.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
Proverbs 21:31 The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but victory is of the LORD.

"I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive at death safely."
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 12:03   #56
davidatcs
Member
 
davidatcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New Mexico Territory
Posts: 52
Just call the Albuquerque, NM police department and ask them what they use (although they don't recommend one shot stops).
__________________
NRA Life- VFW Life--American Legion

Never walk away from home ahead of your axe and sword. You can't feel a battle in your bones or foresee a fight -The Havamal
davidatcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2014, 14:18   #57
Garweh
CLM Number 1
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Garweh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 503
I carry Hornady CDuty in my P938. Had a chance to use it in a "bullets on vehicles" class at Sig Sauer Academy last weekend. Was the only self-defense round that would penetrate windshield and carry on a straight trajectory when shot from both inside and outside car. Very impressive.

CDuty is a bonded round meant to penetrate obstacles. CDefense is not meant for duty carry.
Garweh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2014, 16:33   #58
hunter won
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 237
I have used the non +P in my Kahr PM9 and would rely on the +P version. The 10 mm Critical Duty is very anemic.
The bullet is probably not designed for high velocity.
hunter won is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2014, 23:41   #59
WinterWizard
Senior Member
 
WinterWizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
That's right. The 9x19 round took decades to be acceptable, and only one failure to make it obsolete (The great Miami shootout)
I was referring to hollow point designs, but I agree, even if you were being sarcastic.
WinterWizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 19:01   #60
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
The Shield manual states that all SAAMI spec ammo is OK, but that use of +P ammo may require more frequent service.

Regards,
Happyguy
There's a SAAMI standard for 9mm but none for "+P" ammo advertised for .40S&W as far as I know.

My reading of various forums didn't indicate anyone complaining about the 9mm Shield blowing up but have read more than a few about the .40S&W Shield doing that with hyped ammo.
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,029
252 Members
777 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31