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Old 02-19-2013, 10:07   #21
wlkjr
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I'm also one of the few who are against legalizing drugs. I hope that never happens.
As for race, my opinion is that until minorities as a whole, police their own and quit canonizing their offspring when they do wrong, that problem will continue.
Another can of worms is the lottery. I've seen loads of people spend money that they could not afford to lose and try to hit it big. Then they have nothing left to feed their families or pay bills with.
Having had an alcoholic father, I've also lived that nightmare.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:58   #22
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If you take blacks out of the equation, what are the statistics?
If you take drug dealers out of the equation, what are the statistics?
If you download the raw data from the FBI Uniform Crime Report (available in MS Excel format on there website) and the CDC's data, you can slice and dice the data any way you want. If you remove blacks and Hispanics from the data, the US homicide rate drops from about 4.4 per 100k to 1.9. 1.9 is comparable to European countries and Canada where they do not have large, poor, minority populations. Looking at overall violent crime, I was able to calculate that 86% of all violent crime in the country is committed by members of the black and Hispanic minorities...23% of the US population. Meanwhile, the rates among members of other races living in poverty are no where near as high...so there is definitely something more than just poverty at the heart of this. I believe there is a cultural disposition towards violence. Before the flames start, my last statement was the only opinion stated here: the rest is cold hard stats you can easily verify for yourselves using the UCR and CDC data.


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Old 02-19-2013, 11:20   #23
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I'm also one of the few who are against legalizing drugs. I hope that never happens.
Yep. Civilized society has social mores and laws surrounding them. We don't let everyone do whatever they want whenever they want.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:52   #24
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If you take blacks out of the equation, what are the statistics?
If you take drug dealers out of the equation, what are the statistics?
If you take selfish people out of the equation what are the statistics for all crime and problems?

Certain crimes may be more prevelent within certain races and crime stats may change if we ignore certain crimes. Still doesn't address the bigger problem.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:55   #25
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I suspect that if we ceased using public money to support other people's children, most of these problems would cease over the long run, without regard to and irrespective of race.

When the dependent classes eventually died off due to attrition, society would re-order itself naturally, and for the better.


Without doing so, maintaining the staus quo, I believe everything else is futile.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:27   #26
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Yep. Civilized society has social mores and laws surrounding them.
The interesting question is how do those two interrelate.

To what extent can social mores be enforced by law? To what extent should social mores be enforced by law?

If you've been to Saudi Arabia, you can see that the answer to the first question is "to an extreme extent". The importance of the second question then becomes clear, because we don't want a civilized society like Saudi Arabia's.

Last edited by Gundude; 02-19-2013 at 12:33..
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Old 02-19-2013, 14:01   #27
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I suspect that if we ceased using public money to support other people's children, most of these problems would cease over the long run, without regard to and irrespective of race.

When the dependent classes eventually died off due to attrition, society would re-order itself naturally, and for the better.


Without doing so, maintaining the staus quo, I believe everything else is futile.
The solution you propose would undoubtedly work but the ONLY way it will ever be implemented is by the welfare state going broke--and it will.
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Old 02-19-2013, 14:18   #28
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Definition of insanity: Keep doing what you have been doing and expect different results.

Except for moonshiners, who we've had at least as far back as George Washington and still have today, crime associated with beverage alcohol largely dried up after Prohibition ended.

If recreational drugs which are presently illegal were made legal in the same way alcohol was (re)legalized, why would the result be significantly different?


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Well, the mafia didn't quit killing people when prohibition ended. What would be the basis of a theory that drug dealers would quit killing people if drugs were legalized?
Would they quit being sociopaths?
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Old 02-19-2013, 14:27   #29
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According to NBC news, not generally considered to be a bastion of conservatism, in 2007 nearly half of the U.S. murder victims were black, a majority of them were black males aged 17-19, and 93 percent of black murder victims were killed by other blacks.

Blacks made up about 13% of the U.S. population at the time.


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20203888/#.USPfI_KvCSo

Now, to be honest, I don't know how many of those murders were committed with firearms, but I suspect most of them were.

So, yes, the OP has a point, no matter how much the PC folks among us do not like it.

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Old 02-19-2013, 14:43   #30
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Black-on-black gun crime is absolutely a disproportionately large % of gun crime overall. Juan Williams, of all people, was bemoaning that fact on O'Reilly last night and questioning why black leaders are so remiss in publicly recognizing the problem. His point was that black leaders love to portray gun crime as a "white" problem, when in fact, statistics show it is far more serious in black communities than anywhere else. He blamed fatherless households and the inner-city fascination with the "gangsta" lifestyle as the two primary culprits.

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Old 02-19-2013, 14:49   #31
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Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
The interesting question is how do those two interrelate.

To what extent can social mores be enforced by law? To what extent should social mores be enforced by law?

If you've been to Saudi Arabia, you can see that the answer to the first question is "to an extreme extent". The importance of the second question then becomes clear, because we don't want a civilized society like Saudi Arabia's.
Good post. Your question about how far to go is the age old question.

FWIW, I don't call Saudi Arabia civilized. It's a mysogynistic totalitarianistic society.
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Old 02-19-2013, 14:52   #32
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According to NBC news, not generally considered to be a bastion of conservatism, in 2007 nearly half of the U.S. murder victims were black, a majority of them were black males aged 17-19, and 93 percent of black murder victims were killed by other blacks.

So, yes, the OP has a point, no matter how much the PC folks among us do not like it.
OP has a point but it's a societal problem. Why does the rest of society stand by while these ghettos implode? Why do some people think they are helping the black community by patting them on the head and handing them a check?
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Old 02-19-2013, 15:00   #33
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OP has a point but it's a societal problem. Why does the rest of society stand by while these ghettos implode? Why do some people think they are helping the black community by patting them on the head and handing them a check?
Because tough love for the black community has proven to be a no-go and people get frustrated and give up on it. Bill Cosby was absolutely ostracized by black leaders for suggesting that black kids "pull up their pants and act like a man instead of like a punk". If you suggest anything other than "patting them on the head and handing them a check", you are branded as insensitive and a racist...end of story. At this point, people don't know how to reverse 50-60 years of the welfare-state mindset.

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Old 02-19-2013, 15:36   #34
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OP has a point but it's a societal problem. Why does the rest of society stand by while these ghettos implode? Why do some people think they are helping the black community by patting them on the head and handing them a check?
Daniel Patrick Monyhan, super liberal, wrote what was going to happen to blacks early in his career, and had started to figure out how much damage good intentions had caused, before he died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moynihan_Report
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Old 02-19-2013, 15:38   #35
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If you take blacks out of the equation, what are the statistics?
If you take drug dealers out of the equation, what are the statistics?
It's because over 70% are born out of marriage.


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Old 02-19-2013, 19:43   #36
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I don't know why so many people have a problem understanding this. It's pretty simple. We're dealing with 2 different volatile compounds. One is called SPB (stupid poor black people) and the other is called SPW (stupid poor white people).

SPB is found mostly in inner cities where it tends to be more concentrated which increases the frequency of interaction so the potential for a violent reaction is much greater. SPW tends to be more diluted across the country in the more rural areas where it finds far less opportunity to react with either SPB or more SPW.
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Old 02-19-2013, 20:11   #37
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I don't know why so many people have a problem understanding this. It's pretty simple. We're dealing with 2 different volatile compounds. One is called SPB (stupid poor black people) and the other is called SPW (stupid poor white people).

SPB is found mostly in inner cities where it tends to be more concentrated which increases the frequency of interaction so the potential for a violent reaction is much greater. SPW tends to be more diluted across the country in the more rural areas where it finds far less opportunity to react with either SPB or more SPW.
Got me out of the city.... Life is wonderful the farther away from liberal bastions you get.
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Old 02-19-2013, 20:12   #38
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If you download the raw data from the FBI Uniform Crime Report (available in MS Excel format on there website) and the CDC's data, you can slice and dice the data any way you want. If you remove blacks and Hispanics from the data, the US homicide rate drops from about 4.4 per 100k to 1.9. 1.9 is comparable to European countries and Canada where they do not have large, poor, minority populations. Looking at overall violent crime, I was able to calculate that 86% of all violent crime in the country is committed by members of the black and Hispanic minorities...23% of the US population. Meanwhile, the rates among members of other races living in poverty are no where near as high...so there is definitely something more than just poverty at the heart of this. I believe there is a cultural disposition towards violence. Before the flames start, my last statement was the only opinion stated here: the rest is cold hard stats you can easily verify for yourselves using the UCR and CDC data.


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Old 02-19-2013, 20:25   #39
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The gun problem is NOT a black problem, it's a social problem that affects everyone.

Political Issues


Political Issues


Could have fooled me.
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Old 02-19-2013, 20:26   #40
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In before the lock!

The gun problem is NOT a black problem, it's a social problem that affects everyone.

Trying to blame the problem on any one race is just simply wrong.

We've kicked God out of our society and embraced every deviant behavior known to man, and as a result we now have a society where anything goes and we no longer have respect for each other, or anything.

Life has been cheapened by TV and movie violence, and by video games that glorify killing and violence. Most of the population is addicted to chemicals in one form or another. The rest are just simply pissed off at the world.

Illegal drugs are a MAJOR problem in this country and fuel most of the violence and gun crimes, yet most Americans want more drugs legalized. Figure that one out.

The gang/hip hop culture is another problem that is completely out of control and being tolerated by lawmakers and the general population.

When you tell your children that they're descended from apes and that they're no different than animals, then they go out and act like animals.

Today, the easiest way out of life's complex problems is drugs.
If drugs don't solve your problem, then grab a gun.

That's what we've trained our society to do.

Personal responsibility is an outdated concept and your problems are always the fault of someone else. You deal with that by walking in to some place and opening fire with a gun.

People get the government they deserve.
It seems that they also get the society they deserve.

..
You are a wise man. That is how I think and feel about all this craziness.

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