[digilo]

I shot thousands of 9mm WWB through Glocks and a P-08 Luger. The WWB 9mm was one of the few 115 gr loads that would reliably cycle tthe Luger.
Also, the WWB 115 gr JHP was the only HP that the notoriously finicky Luger would feed, and it fed them 100% reliably. IIRC that load does 1225 fps for 383 ft-lbs of ME- not bad- and uses the same bullet as the Win Silvertip.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by digilo

I shot thousands of 9mm WWB through Glocks and a P-08 Luger. The WWB 9mm was one of the few 115 gr loads that would reliably cycle tthe Luger.
Also, the WWB 115 gr JHP was the only HP that the notoriously finicky Luger would feed, and it fed them 100% reliably. IIRC that load does 1225 fps for 383 ft-lbs of ME- not bad- and uses the same bullet as the Win Silvertip.

The fact that it fed thru your Luger says a lot for the WWB. WWB is great ammo.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

WWB is very good practice ammo.

That's what I have always said.

But with their quality control doing down the ****ter as they move production locations and cheap out on labour, etc...I'm avoiding Winchester when I can, now.

I'd rather save some money and get the cheap russian steel case stuff for my Glocks. Or Rem/UMC or CCI (blazer, blazer brass, or lawman)

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by Warp

That's what I have always said.

But with their quality control doing down the ****ter as they move production locations and cheap out on labour, etc...I'm avoiding Winchester when I can, now.

I'd rather save some money and get the cheap russian steel case stuff for my Glocks. Or Rem/UMC or CCI (blazer, blazer brass, or lawman)

Just what is Winchester doing to their production facilities?

[Warp]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

Just what is Winchester doing to their production facilities?

Moving them.

I have also personally experienced multiple Winchester ammunition turds. And Winchester couldn't care less.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by Warp

Moving them.

I have also personally experienced multiple Winchester ammunition turds. And Winchester couldn't care less.

Moving them where to?

[Warp]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

Moving them where to?

It's things like this, + my actual experience with crap Winchester ammo, + Winchester not giving a damn about the crap ammo I bought from them

Originally Posted by hotpig

ATK and Winchester get all of the big US contracts because they are the only options.

The Union also negotiated giving up pay, benefits, and a weeks vacation. In exchange Winchester said they would stay for up to seven years.

When the membership found out about this deal they kicked the Union guys butt and left him bleeding in the parking lot. The membership voted twice to reject Winchesters offer. There are not going to supplement Winchesters move out of their paychecks.

As it turns out they are going to get the seven years or much of it and did not give up anything.

I would have taken the up to seven years offer and used that time for school or finding other work.

Winchester has tried to break the Union. They even hired scabs at 17.00 per hour to work production on the last strike. It cost them a lot of bad ammo and work place injuries.

Originally Posted by hotpig

Center fire rifle is still made here with skilled labor. Pistol ammo mostly is made by unskilled but some is still made here.

The bullets themselves may or may not be made here. The machinist here at the old plant are very busy because the unskilled labor at the new plant seem to be excelling at breaking things.

Some of the guys here think that it will still be a few years before all of center fire moves south. I think that there is a learning curve for the new guys. It will not last forever. If enough of the Union employees follow their jobs even for half pay and much less benefits it will help get the new plant running up to full production faster.

Whole thread here:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=union


And much more

So I don't really buy Winchester ammo any more

[PVolk]

The 180gr Federal Champion is what I prefer to run through my Glock 23c. I've got roughly 3000 rounds of that stuff through it now, and not a single problem to report.

I just wished my local Walmart was still getting the stuff in stock. It's been 6 months since they've had any, and I'm down to my last 2 boxes. I'll be switching to S&B 180gr next.

[bobtheelf]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

165 gr JHP? WWB?

No, 165g FMJ. The 100 round packs. The 50 round boxes are 180g.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by bobtheelf

No, 165g FMJ. The 100 round packs. The 50 round boxes are 180g.

Thanks.

[PghJim]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

WWB is very good practice ammo.

Just a stupid question. When I got on last night you were the last person to post on all but 5 threads. I never could get into every thread enough to say a comment on all of them.

WWB is OK practice ammo in 45 ACP, but I find it relatively dirty compared to others like MagTech. Federal has always been shy about getting higher pressures, but I am sure they have their reasons. I will say that I have found the HST +p in 45 to be a bit hot.

[digilo]

I've never had a problem with Winchester ammo. No company that I know of turns out 100% perfect product, especially when the number of (widgets) runs in the hundreds of millions.

If the FBI thinks a load is good enough to replace Gold Dots, then I guess it's good enough for me, too.

I don't care much for Federal ammo, as it's usually a weaker load than comparable loads from Rem and Win. They insist on retaining the Hydrashok bullet, which is known to shed it's jacket, or plug up and not expand.

Winchesters politics regarding unions have zero to do with my purchase decision. I think it's funny that people criticize Winchester for the way they deal with the unions, and then recommend buying Russian ammo.

[ddawson]

I found a used glock non ported barrel, on ebay. That should help with federal champion ammo issues. I never got a reply from them.

[PVolk]

Originally Posted by ddawson

I found a used glock non ported, on ebay. That should help with federal champion ammo issues. I never got a reply from them.

You found a Glock on eBay...? Or just a barrel?

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by PghJim

Just a stupid question. When I got on last night you were the last person to post on all but 5 threads. I never could get into every thread enough to say a comment on all of them.

WWB is OK practice ammo in 45 ACP, but I find it relatively dirty compared to others like MagTech. Federal has always been shy about getting higher pressures, but I am sure they have their reasons. I will say that I have found the HST +p in 45 to be a bit hot.

I like GT. So I post a lot. It is not against GT rules.

[ddawson]

Just a barrel and a spring.

[digilo]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

I like GT. So I post a lot. It is not against GT rules.

I always enjoy your posts SC, so rock on!

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by digilo

I always enjoy your posts SC, so rock on!

Thanks, but right now I am more tired than a pair of jumper cables at a Tijuana funeral!