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Old 12-12-2012, 18:22   #21
Jason D
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I would say not.

I would still expect at least an 1" to 1.5" at 100 yards with factory plinking ammo.
I have two 20" Bushmaster rifles that I bought pre2k. One is my DCM match rifle and the other is your standard 20" Hbar XM15. The DCM gun has a 1X8 barrel free-floated and the XM15 your standard 1X9 Bushmaster barrel.

Both guns have turned in groups of 1" with decent factory stuff, but are sub MOA with my match handloads. I would expect yours to do much better with a decent match type load. Something with a 75-77 grain bullet perhaps. My one in nine really liked the Hornady A-Max bullets.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:27   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO View Post
Hornady Steel Match is NOT generic ball ammo. While my handloads are all under 1 MOA for 5 shots, the Steel match is running about 1.5 MOA in my ARs and nothing worse than 2.2 MOA.

A mil-spec set of sights are going to open that up some until you have a lot of trigger time and learn the techniques. The top Iron sight shooters are using filed down, aftermarket or globe sights with precision inserts to increase the repeatabilty of the sighting system.

There are not a lot of people that can hold better than 1 MOA and few rifles that shoot better than 1 MOA. Add that together with stack-up and most people are going to be shooting 3 to 4 MOA for groups of 5 or more rounds.

You are doing fine for staritng out.
I was lucky enough to specify the sights on my DCM gun, as I had them build it. A smaller aperture helps in Match shooting. The XM15 is now a close copy of the DCM with the addition of NM sights and a hooded aperture.
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:04   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
Using a match built rifle, a special small aperature, handloaded, heavy long bullets single loaded, a guy at Camp Perry shot minute of angle at 1,000 yards with an AR.

That's a 10" group at 1,000 yards. Still inside the chest of an average man.
The Camp Perry 1000 yard target is six feet square and has a 20 inch bullseye (10 ring).
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:06   #24
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Using iron sights a 4 inch group is not bad at all, in my opinion.
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:40   #25
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Quote:
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Using iron sights a 4 inch group is not bad at all, in my opinion.
I agree. If you need to shoot someone farther out than 100 yards, sneak up on him a little.
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:45   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by collim1 View Post
Rock River Arms A4 20" shooting Hornady Steel Training 55FMJ BTHP @ 100yds from a sandbag.

I was getting 4in groups. What would be considered good? I wasn't exactly happy with that.
I would want better than that. I would want 4 MOA from a field position, and I would expect more off of sandbags. 2.5 MOA, let's say, off of bags.
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Old 12-12-2012, 21:25   #27
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I would want better than that. I would want 4 MOA from a field position, and I would expect more off of sandbags. 2.5 MOA, let's say, off of bags.
Sounds like I need to practice. .223 is so darn expensive I dont get to shoot near as much as I would if I could afford 250rds a week at ~.46 per round.
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Old 12-12-2012, 21:28   #28
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Sounds like I need to practice. .223 is so darn expensive I dont get to shoot near as much as I would if I could afford 250rds a week at ~.46 per round.
Yeah, prices have gone haywire over the last month.

I had 1k rounds of PMC Bronze .223 with UPS on election day...$336/1k delivered. Then 1k of Federal XM193 for $396 shortly thereafter.

Not today...not today.
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Old 12-12-2012, 23:11   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by collim1 View Post
Rock River Arms A4 20" shooting Hornady Steel Training 55FMJ BTHP @ 100yds from a sandbag.

I was getting 4in groups. What would be considered good? I wasn't exactly happy with that.
4" iron at 100 yards seems good to me.

I'm new to irons, too. Doubt I could do better, likely way worse with some fliers.

But I'll give it a try
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Old 12-17-2012, 13:42   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
ammo
sights
shooter
target

all play a part. 3" is rather normal with off the shelf ammo.
Most shooters will get 1-1.5" groups with a typical scope.
I'm not familiar with your skill set, but i would say your grouping
is on par for a new shooter
.
bawahahahahhaha
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Old 12-17-2012, 19:03   #31
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bawahahahahhaha
True, new shooters are unlikely to be capable of 4" groups at 100 yards with iron sites.

Many new shooters won't even be able to create a 'group'
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:12   #32
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1.5 inch is what I do all day on mine.in fact I don't want a scope on mine. If I could do it over I'd have bought a 20 inch a2 or a1 instead of a flat top.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:17   #33
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Give it time.....With more practice your groupings will improve.
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Old 02-25-2013, 22:00   #34
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Just looked at my rifle again in the pix still looks darn good.

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Old 02-25-2013, 23:30   #35
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We were taught to shoot the A2 using iron sights (carry handle) at man sized silhouettes from up to 500 yards. Even at 19 years olds that was tough to see, no way these days I could do it. I think the best I managed was 8 of 10 in the black back then. That was general issue rifles and ammo, and really pissed D.I. behind us

Today I stick to 100 yards with irons, much easier on the old eyes

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Old 02-26-2013, 21:20   #36
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I just want to shoot 300 yards.

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Old 03-02-2013, 09:29   #37
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National Match sights will bring groups down from those likely with standard sights, but may not be the best idea for a duty rifle. The Match rear is a very small aperture, and the front sight post is narrower. That makes for more precision, but is harder to acquire quickly.

The one thing that using a scope shows you, is how much your heartbeat moves the crosshairs! You can hardly see that with iron's. So, there's things happening you don't even know about.

Then, of course, there's:
practice
practice
practice...

If you can find the ammo!
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:10   #38
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I would be satisfied with that grouping with standard irons. I recently changed to a narrower post with a ball on top (my eyes are getting old, too) and that allows me to do much better at 100 yards. Instead of 4-5" groups I can concentrate on the post better and achieve 2-3". Still practicing, though.
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