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Old 03-04-2013, 20:31   #341
countrygun
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Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
since you don't hear complaints about limp wristing a AR and my AR has never thrown brass in my face I think he goes above Gaston Glock
And he had more than one weapons design in production at the same time.
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Old 03-04-2013, 20:53   #342
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To design a semi-auto/full auto gun from scratch it pretty much takes a genius. Browning designed several...pistols as well as rifles and machine guns. Gaston Glock; none. Gene Stoner; at least 1 rifle. Bill Ruger; zero. Both Bill and Gaston are very smart, but, so far, i've not seen "genius". All of them but Bill; Super smart with huge balls. Why? Because of their huge level and accomplishment of innovation bringing such radical designs to market successfully. I own a few Rugers and appreciate them, but, Ruger made some HUGE mistakes not standing up for the 2nd Amendment and the American public when he/they had the chance. Also, not making their Mini-14 take AR-15 mags is STUPID!!! And all the years they went not making a serious competitor to the AR and AK... STUPID!!!
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Old 03-04-2013, 20:55   #343
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...and not making a serious "Ruger M-14 .308" STUPID!!!
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Old 03-04-2013, 21:04   #344
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Also, Stoner; His AR's for the longest time had all sorts of problems and short-comings... which he eventually fixed some of, and others fixed the rest of. I think Stoner's biggest contribution was his excellent ergonomics and lightening up of the weapon.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:18   #345
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Not even a close second. Nobody comes close to Browning.

Last edited by mgs; 03-05-2013 at 08:21..
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:31   #346
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Browning was clearly a genius without equal, in the firearms world. Kalashnikov, Stoner, Ruger, and Glock designs are in use all over the world, but Browning's innovations and influence will be felt until firearms give way to lasers or whatever comes next.

Of course, much of that innovation and influence will be felt by those of us who choose to carry Glocks every day.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:41   #347
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Since the 1911 is short recoil operated, and not gas operated, I don't see how Maxim figures in at all.
For his shortcomings, and he had many - mainly a massive ego and a freedom with the facts, Maxim did develop the first practical gas operated machine gun which was ready for prime time pretty much from initiation. Roughly contemporanous with Hotchkiss and the Lewis, the Maxim used one barrel fed by many cartridges, which differed from Gatling with his many-barreled approach.

It was the _idea_ that massive firepower could be reduced to the personal level that made Browning's development and acceptance possible. That, and a MASSIVE arms race during that era of the early 20th century.

Both (IMHO) Stoner and Kalishnikov deserve honorable mention here, although at least according to Chivers, the AK is more a tribute to the Soviet military bureaucracy than to independent briliance.

But as for the topic of Browning or Glock, I am not sure what the argument is about. There were cars before the Model T, but Ford made the Model T available to the masses. Ford is remembered for the process, not for the vehicle itself.

It is certainly evidence of brilliance that the Browning pattern is still used by so many weapons - who would NOT want to have a BAR to play with??? But while I am neutral on Glocks - I have them and I enjoy them, but not passionate about them - there is much to be said for the utter simplicity of the design and manufacturing technique, and the truly innovative marketing strategies Glock the company has used.
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Old 03-05-2013, 16:24   #348
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FWIW I have two Glocks which have been perfect. The 1911 Springfield Mil-spec I "used" to own would give me a stovepipe about 2% of the time.

This is not a condemnation of the 1911 platform, just my experience. Glocks and 1911s are apples and oranges IMHO and of course Browning goes beyond 1911s.

It's great to have choices for whatever "we" want the most and that can include arms from both of these men.
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Old 03-05-2013, 16:28   #349
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I'm still waiting for Ruger to release their XGI rifle in 308!
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Old 03-05-2013, 16:53   #350
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Originally Posted by Tazz10m View Post
To design a semi-auto/full auto gun from scratch it pretty much takes a genius. Browning designed several...pistols as well as rifles and machine guns. Gaston Glock; none. Gene Stoner; at least 1 rifle. Bill Ruger; zero. Both Bill and Gaston are very smart, but, so far, i've not seen "genius". All of them but Bill; Super smart with huge balls. Why? Because of their huge level and accomplishment of innovation bringing such radical designs to market successfully. I own a few Rugers and appreciate them, but, Ruger made some HUGE mistakes not standing up for the 2nd Amendment and the American public when he/they had the chance. Also, not making their Mini-14 take AR-15 mags is STUPID!!! And all the years they went not making a serious competitor to the AR and AK... STUPID!!!
Bill Ruger had some fantastic designs. His redesign of the Single Action revolver was industry changing.
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Old 03-05-2013, 17:11   #351
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Originally Posted by ilgunguygt View Post
Bill Ruger had some fantastic designs. His redesign of the Single Action revolver was industry changing.
Yeah, the Blackhawk remains one of my favorite revolvers of all time.

...the original design, that is. No transfer bar, no goofy warning labels, just a very classy wheelgun...




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Old 03-05-2013, 17:38   #352
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No but I bet Glock's wife is better looking that John Moses Browning's was. Glock can't hold a candle to Browning by virtue of the number and variety of JMB designs still in production and still in use in applications where it matters. That said, Glock has definitely made a name for himself.
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Old 03-05-2013, 19:17   #353
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No but I bet Glock's wife is better looking that John Moses Browning's was. Glock can't hold a candle to Browning by virtue of the number and variety of JMB designs still in production and still in use in applications where it matters. That said, Glock has definitely made a name for himself.
Which wife? Did he not divorce his wife of 49 (?) years and marry someone 51 years his Jr?

Did all 3 of his children quit, or were they fired?

Regardless - Mr. Glock can not approach JMB.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:12   #354
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Thanks for the entertainment everyone. This thread was good for killing time while I'm home sick today.

By the way, the only way GG will ever be on the same level as JMB is when he dies he will be also be six feet under.

That being said I carry a Glock 30 most of the time
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:53   #355
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Bill Ruger had some fantastic designs. His redesign of the Single Action revolver was industry changing.
For sure. I agree. But, that's not genius as he is just improving on others designs which are genius.
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Old 03-06-2013, 13:00   #356
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Also, Stoner; His AR's for the longest time had all sorts of problems and short-comings... which he eventually fixed some of, and others fixed the rest of. I think Stoner's biggest contribution was his excellent ergonomics and lightening up of the weapon.
From what I recall it wasn't Stoner that created the issues, it was the military and the whizz kids. There were cases of using the wrong powder that didn't burn properly, cases that weren't annealed properly, and heck when it was introduced they didnt even have cleaning kits for them. Stoner designed his weapon and it was fine in use with the Special Forces who take good care of their weapons.
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Old 03-06-2013, 13:22   #357
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From what I recall it wasn't Stoner that created the issues, it was the military and the whizz kids. There were cases of using the wrong powder that didn't burn properly, cases that weren't annealed properly, and heck when it was introduced they didnt even have cleaning kits for them. Stoner designed his weapon and it was fine in use with the Special Forces who take good care of their weapons.
This is true, but, the gun still had all sorts of actual design issues that we all needed to learn to get around. So, now we have the newer hybrid designs that are much better and more reliable. That's just the evolution of design, though... just like going from the M1 Garand to the M14 to the Mini-14... and that's ok. But the M14, to this day, is still a much more robust, simple, and reliable, design... although not as light, etc.

One fun little comparison test is to do is to ask yourself; 'If i was going to go into BF Egypt for a month with only what i can carry, what gun parts and tools to i need to bring with me to keep my gun functioning perfectly?' All of a sudden you start considering taking an M14, AK, or some other reliable gun with you... hahaha...
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Old 03-06-2013, 13:26   #358
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Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
Yeah, the Blackhawk remains one of my favorite revolvers of all time.

...the original design, that is. No transfer bar, no goofy warning labels, just a very classy wheelgun...



I love the Black Hawk... but i want the new design, not the old one... except as a collectible.
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:57   #359
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I love the Black Hawk... but i want the new design, not the old one... except as a collectible.
I've got a couple of both and MUCH prefer the old action.
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Old 03-06-2013, 18:32   #360
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Which wife? Did he not divorce his wife of 49 (?) years and marry someone 51 years his Jr?
Funny, it's NOT the Mormon who has two wives.
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