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Old 03-06-2013, 10:23   #26
happyguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Let's play a game of what if...

What if a large vehicle such as a truck were laded with explosives and moving down the road to a large gathering of people, say the Super Bowl, and you had the chance to take it out with say a Hellfire from a drone to the cab.

Would you authorize that if you were president?
I thought we settled all this after the FBI murdered Randy Weavers wife. Didn't we decide that bureaucrats aren't allowed to sign death warrants on Americans?

Guess not.

Maybe I should read the article and find out who and when.

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Old 03-06-2013, 10:26   #27
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It's only going to get better and better....Can't wait for O's fourth term.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:22   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Let's play a game of what if...

What if a large vehicle such as a truck were laded with explosives and moving down the road to a large gathering of people, say the Super Bowl, and you had the chance to take it out with say a Hellfire from a drone to the cab.

Would you authorize that if you were president?
I expect the authorities to use the legal means they have at their disposal such as helicopters, police cars, rifles, spike strips, etc. Just like the authorities expect me to use the legal means to defend myself using legal weapons. You could make all kinds of arguments for your scenario - an airstrike, a low yield tactical nuke, a fuel-air explosive, an A-10 loaded to the gills.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:54   #29
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President Can Use Lethal Force Against Americans on US Soil

Yawn. Nothing new here. Check out President George Washington and the Pennsylvania Whiskey Rebellion.
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Old 03-06-2013, 13:20   #30
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I dunno -- isn't this sort of like saying if it would save only one child's life, we should ban all "military style weapons"?


.
The difference between being armed and being disarmed is the difference between being a serf and being a citizen.

Serfdom is not that far removed from outright slavery.

Would you agree to become a serf if it would save one child's life?

Would you agree to become a slave if it would save one child's life?

I would not agree to become a serf or a slave if it would save 100,000 children's lives.

Better they and I be dead than they or I live as serfs or slaves.

"Cold dead hands".

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Old 03-06-2013, 13:23   #31
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Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
The difference between being armed and being disarmed is the difference between being a serf and being a citizen.

Serfdom is not that far removed from outright slavery.

Would you agree to become a serf if it would save one child's life?

Would you agree to become a slave if it would save one child's life?

I would not agree to become a serf or a slave if it would save 100,000 children's lives.

Better they and I be dead than they or I live as serfs or slaves.

"Cold dead hands".


Uh...I think you're preaching to the choir here, Comrade B.


.
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Old 03-06-2013, 14:19   #32
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There are GTers on here who defend the drones, the armored vehicles and Obama's ability to kill us. The guvment keeps taking step after step towards a 3rd Reich style police state and they still stumble over themselves assuring us that it's only for terrorists and never to be used against Americans. Im sure they'll be along in a minute. Brace yourselves for "tin foil hatters" and "anarchists" responses.
Don't be silly you toinfoil-hatter anarchist...Obama wouldn't use drones on American soil!

Snipers, on the other hand, are a tried-and-true approach....

This is the natural progression of things, given that Congress gave Obama the NDAA, giving him the power to make anyone "disappear" on a whim.
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Old 03-06-2013, 14:29   #33
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Deleted, double post.
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Old 03-06-2013, 14:29   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
The difference between being armed and being disarmed is the difference between being a serf and being a citizen.

Serfdom is not that far removed from outright slavery.

Would you agree to become a serf if it would save one child's life?

Would you agree to become a slave if it would save one child's life?

I would not agree to become a serf or a slave if it would save 100,000 children's lives.

Better they and I be dead than they or I live as serfs or slaves.

"Cold dead hands".


Reminds me of the line: "Stolid and stunned, a brother to the ox".

Man with a hoe.

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Old 03-06-2013, 14:56   #35
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The DHS should have never been allowed in the first place and needs to be dismantled ASAP.
They are nothing more then the KGB, Stasi and SS of the USA with a nicer sounding name and build on the peoples sense of patriotism and false security feelings.
The DHS is the most dangerous entity to our freedoms in the USA's history.
Nicer sounding name?? It sent chills down my spine the first time I heard it, and I doubt I'm the only one.

How many people abandoned the Republican Party the first time they heard the term "Department of Homeland Security"? I did. Again, I doubt I'm the only one.
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Old 03-06-2013, 15:07   #36
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Can one hear the drones as they circle and line up kill shots?

Of course SWAT teams have been killing innocent people for years, so the drones merely keep the shooter from getting blood splattered.


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Old 03-06-2013, 15:15   #37
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But in hearings Ted Cruz Rep from tX ...pinned Holder like a bug, and got him to basically say...No, it is unconstitutional.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:05   #38
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What I am getting at is there very well may be times when an armed drone would be a pretty good idea and even those tossing away my what if would approve.

You can pretend the world will work according to your absolutes, but don't be butthurt when it doesn't.
I guess I would beg the question, why is there a Predator drone with a Hellfire missile patrolling over US airspace?

As a corollary to your question, what would you think of bombing the same vehicle with an F16? Or even dropping one on your house, identified as a possible terrorist hideout?


This cannot pass Constitutional muster when the Constitution will not even let the military house troops in your home without your concent. In either peacetime or wartime.



Eric Holder needs to be fired.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:14   #39
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This is what happens when republicans vote to turn the US into a war zone.

The entire United States is now a war zone: S.1867 passes the Senate with massive support

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Old 03-06-2013, 17:34   #40
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socialism at it's finest
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Old 03-06-2013, 18:02   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambo View Post
I expect the authorities to use the legal means they have at their disposal such as helicopters, police cars, rifles, spike strips, etc. Just like the authorities expect me to use the legal means to defend myself using legal weapons. You could make all kinds of arguments for your scenario - an airstrike, a low yield tactical nuke, a fuel-air explosive, an A-10 loaded to the gills.
Have you ever seen spike strips in action? Have you ever fired on a moving vehicle?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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Old 03-06-2013, 18:27   #42
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Have you ever seen spike strips in action? Have you ever fired on a moving vehicle?

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If being a cop is too hard for you, go do something else.
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Old 03-06-2013, 19:57   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Let's play a game of what if...

What if a large vehicle such as a truck were laded with explosives and moving down the road to a large gathering of people, say the Super Bowl, and you had the chance to take it out with say a Hellfire from a drone to the cab.

Would you authorize that if you were president?
Well the only people that seem to live with the delusion that such things are detectable are cops and intelligence personnel. The only way a cop is going to know about it is if the darn thing is already blown up.
Let's just take a trip down memory lane of some of the great intelligence coups of the last 100 years-

Dec 1941- US Navy totally surprised by an attack on a Naval base
Gulf of Tonkin- Again US Navy shocked to be attacked
1979 Iranian embassy taken over and Shah deposed. US is actively training Iranian military personnel on the day of the
takeover
1982 Beirut Lebanon-Mad Islamakazee bombs a barracks full of Marines.
1989 Berlin Wall falls-US Intelligence Agencies totally flummoxed
1992 Saddam Hussein invades Kuwait, US totally surprised. Kuwaiti government promises it will change over to a Democratic country if we just please get those darn Iraqis out of Kuwait
2001 A bunch of Islamakazees take over several airlines, because of our lax immigration policies none of our bloated federal bureaucracies are aware that we have a gozillian illegals in the country that hate us and are about to crash airliners into building to prove it. Everyone is astonished.
Hell I could write a book, and I would not even skim the surface of the incompetence of the government, yet there are imbeciles here in this country that giving these buffoon James Bond wannabees a license to kill is a good idea.
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Old 03-06-2013, 20:14   #44
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Have you ever seen spike strips in action? Have you ever fired on a moving vehicle?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
So I am giving your scenario right back to you, respectfully. You are on patrol and it comes over your radio that you and 3 other officers need to stop an 18 wheeler with explosives. What do you do? Hellfire missiles are not an option.
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Old 03-07-2013, 00:15   #45
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We'll see if anything happens when a drone collides with an airliner full of people over the US. Was it an accident?
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:53   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambo View Post
So I am giving your scenario right back to you, respectfully. You are on patrol and it comes over your radio that you and 3 other officers need to stop an 18 wheeler with explosives. What do you do? Hellfire missiles are not an option.
We shoot rifles at the cab and we have a 50/50 chance of it continuing. Same with spike strips even if we can get them there in time. Of course this all assumes we know for sure what their route is. And of course being able to get in front of it. Or being able to find it at ground level.

Or for big events you could have a drone on standby for a fraction of the cost of a manned aircraft. But since you are such a fan of a big spending government I guess you are okay with more money being spent.

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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:54   #47
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Originally Posted by Annoyinglylongname View Post
Well the only people that seem to live with the delusion that such things are detectable are cops and intelligence personnel. The only way a cop is going to know about it is if the darn thing is already blown up.
Let's just take a trip down memory lane of some of the great intelligence coups of the last 100 years-

Dec 1941- US Navy totally surprised by an attack on a Naval base
Gulf of Tonkin- Again US Navy shocked to be attacked
1979 Iranian embassy taken over and Shah deposed. US is actively training Iranian military personnel on the day of the
takeover
1982 Beirut Lebanon-Mad Islamakazee bombs a barracks full of Marines.
1989 Berlin Wall falls-US Intelligence Agencies totally flummoxed
1992 Saddam Hussein invades Kuwait, US totally surprised. Kuwaiti government promises it will change over to a Democratic country if we just please get those darn Iraqis out of Kuwait
2001 A bunch of Islamakazees take over several airlines, because of our lax immigration policies none of our bloated federal bureaucracies are aware that we have a gozillian illegals in the country that hate us and are about to crash airliners into building to prove it. Everyone is astonished.
Hell I could write a book, and I would not even skim the surface of the incompetence of the government, yet there are imbeciles here in this country that giving these buffoon James Bond wannabees a license to kill is a good idea.
I am talking about a case where we have intel giving us a target before it happens. Not likely but it is in the realm of reality. Would you prefer the government not to be prepared for such events?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:06   #48
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Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
I am talking about a case where we have intel giving us a target before it happens. Not likely but it is in the realm of reality. Would you prefer the government not to be prepared for such events?

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
I would judge your scenario as a case of national security and defense of the American citizenry where-as a weapon of mass destruction is being employed in an act of terrorism. I would apply this policy to scenarios such as spotting a crazed Tim McVay headed toward the Murrah Federal Building or a Flight 93 headed toward the White House.

Of course, there are layers of defense from local police to the FBI to detect, anticipate, intercept and hopefully prevent such a substantial event. Homeland Security is customizing drones for cellphone reception and weapons identification but loading up a Hellfire and popping it off at an American citizen who otherwise could be detained, questioned, arrested and tried would be un-Constitutional.


The problem is that the current Administration is unwilling to elaborate on expansive, sweeping and over-encompassing statements. They over-reach to the point of alarm and are unwilling to set policy. They are "leading from behind" again.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:10   #49
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Although drones carrying ordinance over US soil disturbs me what has me more concerned is the reports that said drones will have the ability to detect if a citizen is armed and be able to track cellphone transmissions. Yeah this is all for our own good. :mad:

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Old 03-07-2013, 08:07   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
Let's play a game of what if...

What if a large vehicle such as a truck were laded with explosives and moving down the road to a large gathering of people, say the Super Bowl, and you had the chance to take it out with say a Hellfire from a drone to the cab.

Would you authorize that if you were president?

Where is Jack Bauer when you need him?

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
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