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Old 03-22-2013, 20:52   #1
rustytxrx
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10 seconds prior to the begining

Christianity and science have the same issue it seems. Christianity, God always existed so that excludes a beginning. Science wants the beginning to happen a bit after 00:00. Before that science also gets a bit vague in that the "nothing" of space (space beginning created in the beginning) seems to be the same nothing before 00:00. So there was no beginning.

The beginning is a reach at best.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:51   #2
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To answer your question, you need to define "beginning".
The beginning of what?

The beginning of what we understand to be the universe may only be a small part of something bigger than has existed forever, outside of time.

If there is an existence outside of time then the statement that nothing existed prior to the big bang is wrong. God existed and always has existed.

We look at creation from our own extremely limited viewpoint and assume that whatever conditions, standards and natural laws apply to us also apply to everything else. That might be wrong.

Maybe a creator (God) doesn't have a lifespan because he exists outside of time, and the laws of physics as we know them do not apply to him.

It just might be possible to have an intelligent existence outside of the biological life, and outside of time, that we know.

Consider this, how many senses do you have?
Now, how many senses are there?

The answer is that we don't know how many senses are possible and what we could detect and understand if we had those senses.

That's why it's so ridiculous when the atheists demand proof of God's existence. Maybe the proof is all around us and we can't detect it with our extremely limited senses.

The Bible says we're separated from God by sin, and we assume that sin is just things that God doesn't want us to do. Maybe what we call sin is far more than just the bad things in life. Maybe living a sin free life is the key that opens the door to a greater understanding of God and the universe.

Maybe if we lead sin free lives as God intended, we'd know the answers to all these questions, and just maybe we'd have the proof of God's existence that the atheists think is so important?

Either way there's more to it all than meets the eye, and we can't even begin to see even the smallest speck of it.

..

Last edited by JBnTX; 03-23-2013 at 09:29..
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:31   #3
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This a quote from Steven King.



"You cannot understand the glories of the universe without believing there is some Supreme Power behind it.

I believe that fits my pantheist belief.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:42   #4
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Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
This a quote from Steven King.



"You cannot understand the glories of the universe without believing there is some Supreme Power behind it.

I believe that fits my pantheist belief.
I agree with Steven King.

I also believe that the entire universe is only a small part of something much bigger and far more important.

Just because it's all we can see, doesn't mean it's all there is.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:06   #5
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I also believe that the entire universe is only a small part of something much bigger and far more important.

Just because it's all we can see, doesn't mean it's all there is.
I would not have pegged you as an advocate of the multiverse... Cool.

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Old 03-23-2013, 09:24   #6
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JBnTX, thanks that was a good post
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:29   #7
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Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
Christianity and science have the same issue it seems. Christianity, God always existed so that excludes a beginning. Science wants the beginning to happen a bit after 00:00. Before that science also gets a bit vague in that the "nothing" of space (space beginning created in the beginning) seems to be the same nothing before 00:00. So there was no beginning.

The beginning is a reach at best.
Here's the big question of the ages...

How does wrestling with what happened millions of years ago affect my lifestyle?

From war to pollution there are more current concerns relevant to us all.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:42   #8
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Here's the big question of the ages...

How does wrestling with what happened millions of years ago affect my lifestyle?

From war to pollution there are more current concerns relevant to us all.
That's your "big question of the ages"?...

It just might help you define your existence and help you determine your place in the grand scheme of things.

Understanding your purpose could greatly influence your so called lifestyle that you referred to.

This little instant of an existence that you call life might just be a very infinitesimally small part of something greater.

Wars and pollution are nothing compared to what is possible.
I'm sure you've heard the term "think outside the box", well that concept certainly applies here.

..

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Old 03-23-2013, 09:48   #9
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JBnTX, thanks that was a good post
Thank You!

Consider this, that maybe "10 seconds prior to the beginning" God asked himself, "Do I have time to create another universe before lunch"?
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:48   #10
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I admit I was being a bit sarcastic there. I have no doubts that I am a spiritual creature and my soul will survive death. In college I had a couple experiences with mushrooms that led me to understand the facts of universal consciousness and existence. I am like a single neuron in a larger mind, but a point of light, as we all are. I often wonder how anyone can form spiritual opinions without undergoing a shamanistic experience with peyote or mushroom. If you doubted you had a soul before you won't afterwards.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:51   #11
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I admit I was being a bit sarcastic there. I have no doubts that I am a spiritual creature and my soul will survive death. In college I had a couple experiences with mushrooms that led me to understand the facts of universal consciousness and existence. I am like a single neuron in a larger mind, but a point of light, as we all are. I often wonder how anyone can form spiritual opinions without undergoing a shamanistic experience with peyote or mushroom. If you doubted you had a soul before you won't afterwards.
I know a lot of Native Americans that will agree with you.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:59   #12
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Thank You!

Consider this, that maybe "10 seconds prior to the beginning" God asked himself, "Do I have time to create another universe before lunch"?

Or "Oh man, these guys will take everything so serious..wait it will be funny..." Snaps fingers.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:06   #13
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Here's the big question of the ages...

How does wrestling with what happened millions of years ago affect my lifestyle?

From war to pollution there are more current concerns relevant to us all.
More like billions of years. The name of the Forum is....Religious Issues. Thus I think my post is on topic. There seems to be some bright posters on here and I was interested to read their thoughts.

Figuring out what happened at the beginning is going to be a lot easier than solving humans problems
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:12   #14
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Most of human's problems could be either solved or slowed by reducing the population by 66%.......as long as I am in the remaining 33%.
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Old 03-23-2013, 13:16   #15
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I know a lot of Native Americans that will agree with you.
I naturally gravitate to Native American and Shamanistic traditions. I find that they are more in touch with the natural and the spirit than our modern practices based on the alert problem solving state of mind. The caffeinated ready to do business at the office mindset is one in which a person can never have a spiritual experience of any sort. The rhythmic drumming and shamanic herbs change the consciousness so that we can experience the spirit. To a lesser extent this can take place in modern churches where people sing hymns and pray, but even that seems like a half measure to me based on ritual instead of "knowing for yourself", and is still detached from nature and spirit for that reason.
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Old 03-23-2013, 13:49   #16
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Oh 33 + 66 is only 99%....that there is some of that quantum math

A fellow I know is writing a paper on international patient satisfaction. African patients seeing Traditional African doctors give doctors higher satisfaction rate then a American doctors get and patients report a higher cure rate.
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Old 03-23-2013, 14:34   #17
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Why is it so acceptable that 'God' did it? That He is the creator and originator of existence? Why does one 'not' wonder where did God come from? Who created Him? Who does He worship?

If one thing is true of all creation and all existence is that things don't start off already complex. They evolve from a simple state to something more advanced.

The journey to eternity is a long one. I think both theist and non-theist have the same dilemma; how did it all get started?

The theist would question the Big Bang because it doesn't answer their spiritual question of creation. Yet, the answer of, 'God' is just as lacking.
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Old 03-23-2013, 16:03   #18
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There's a real problem trying to understand the whole concept beginning thing. Correct me if I misunderstand the current BB theory, but time did not exist before the BB either, not just space, so the question of what happened "prior" to the BB doesn't make sense, let alone 10 sec prior.

The physical laws of the universe we now live in, time, space, didn't apply.

And yet we can't help but ask the question, what happened before, we're unable to fathom the idea of a "time without time". Just like we can't imagine the world of quantum mechanics, it seems nonsensical, it violates common sense, seems impossible, nor can we imagine time slowing down, distances changing based on inertial reference of the observer.

That's the cool thing about science and math, it paints a fantastic picture we cannot have imagined, and eliminates other equally, or less fantastic options that make more sense to us as impossible. It has the means to determine fact from fiction.

Without relying on shifting interpretations of thousands of years old texts..... or mushrooms...

Randy

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Old 03-23-2013, 16:04   #19
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Why is it so acceptable that 'God' did it? That He is the creator and originator of existence? Why does one 'not' wonder where did God come from? Who created Him? Who does He worship?

If one thing is true of all creation and all existence is that things don't start off already complex. They evolve from a simple state to something more advanced.
You're looking at things from our point of view and assuming that what applies to us also applies to God.

All that we are aware of has a creation point and an ending, but that may not be the case in the bigger picture of God and the universe.
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Old 03-23-2013, 16:33   #20
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Originally Posted by Trew2Life View Post

The journey to eternity is a long one. I think both theist and non-theist have the same dilemma; how did it all get started?

.
However we got here it is a pretty nice place. Lot of interesting things to think on. I am comfortable with my beginning and my end. Things are as they are.
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