GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-16-2013, 08:40   #41
ipscshooter
Mostly IDPA now
 
ipscshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Near Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 2,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Bushmaster is a junk gun. If there is any notion out there that a Bushmaster is more reliable than a Colt, it's because their barrels are horribly overgassed to deal with Russian ghetto ammo.
Bushmaster's may be over gassed, but I'm not entirely sure it's to deal with Russian ghetto ammo. My Colts and DD run fine on Tula, etc. for practice.

Keeping the brass cased stuff for other uses.
__________________
Shoot Safe
ipscshooter
_______________
NRA Life,USPSA Life,IDPA Member
ipscshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 08:42   #42
Matthew Courtney
CLM Number 285
Instructor #298
 
Matthew Courtney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Charles
Posts: 5,939
In stock 6920 LE- http://clydearmory.com/checkout/cart/

$1299

By the time you pay the sales tax at Walmart, this one is about $100 more, and you will have it in a few days.
__________________
You will never begin in the fight you have planned for. You will begin in the fight the other guy has planned for. Retreat in a manner that leads him into your fight should he press his attack.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Matthew Courtney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 08:54   #43
Roger1079
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South FL
Posts: 2,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Bushmaster is a junk gun. If there is any notion out there that a Bushmaster is more reliable than a Colt, it's because their barrels are horribly overgassed to deal with Russian ghetto ammo.
I never had any issues with my Bushmaster. The only reason I sold it was I got a great deal on an LWRC and didnt really care for the fixed carry handle on the Bushmaster. Unless you are going to be using it for hunting, home defense, or competition shooting, the Bushmaster will likely be perfectly fine for range use. Odds are the "junk" Bushmaster along with any of the other lesser tier brands will likely be more accurate than your shooting capabilities. I know mine was. From a rest, I could practically send rounds through a hole the size of a quarter at 100 yards which I couldn't do holding the rifle. For $100 more though, Colt is the obvious choice. I am not a Colt fanboy and have never owned one and can only base my opinions on everything I have read, so take it for what it's worth. Colt definitely builds a quality product, however they are greatly overrated by the "If it isnt a Colt, it is garbage" crowd.

Last edited by Roger1079; 04-16-2013 at 08:57..
Roger1079 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 09:09   #44
M&P Guy
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 97
I own both. Based upon experience of thousands of rounds through each; Colt, no questions. Everything from quality of assembly, to pins and springs leaves no doubt the Colt is a better use of hard earned money.
M&P Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 09:48   #45
jb1911
Senior Member
 
jb1911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,190
<--this
__________________
Chuck Norris wears Hickok45 pajamas

Black Rifle Club Member "LE6920Colt"
jb1911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 20:22   #46
pat701
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Beyond OZ
Posts: 479
Colt!!!
pat701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 21:37   #47
Wade-19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,223
Funny I just saw this thread . I was at a Wal-Mart a couple hours from home last week and they had two Colt 6920 MOEs . I almost grabbed one, but I had the old Bushmaster at home . Well after thinking about it all week, I threw the Bushmaster on Armslist and sold it today. I hope the Wal-Marts by me start getting Colts in soon
__________________
5 Glocks and a few others
Wade-19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 22:40   #48
TunaFisherman
Halibut Hunter
 
TunaFisherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: West of the East coast
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkangel1846 View Post
Colts are over rated......there are many who would buy it just for the old name that doesn't mean quality anymore.
wow... Do some research. Colt m4 quality is battle proven. That is a post by someone who knows zero about Colt rifles.
A simple online research will prove this. There are better rifles then Colt but Colt is the only true Mil Spec rifle.
Now Mil Spec only means they meet the the quality the Military will use.
Consistant quality control.
__________________
Give me my freedom,guns and money. You can keep the change.

Last edited by TunaFisherman; 04-18-2013 at 22:54..
TunaFisherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:26   #49
BleedNOrange
Go Vols
 
BleedNOrange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Volunteer State
Posts: 1,327
Took a rifle class a few weeks back. If your rifle wont run you get sent home and have to reschedule. approx 1200 rounds in 3 days. 2 got sent home. 1 was a Colt and the other was a Spikes Tactical. My Bushmaster ran fine as did several brand new Windham arms rifles(basically same thing). I dont love or hate either. If a gun shoots and will run I will use it. My AR is 12 yrs old and has had thousands of rounds thru it with no troubles other than a bad round here and there. Including all the steel cased stuff.
__________________
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."
BF

Last edited by BleedNOrange; 04-19-2013 at 10:29..
BleedNOrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 09:34   #50
FireForged
Millenium #3936
 
FireForged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Rebel South
Posts: 4,595
I am not sure why people seem to panic over a non-staked gas key. I have been shooting AR's since the 1980s and not a one had a staked anything. I have never experienced a single problem with a gas key even with my (2) Bushmaster shorties (circa 1999 ) that have more than 8k rounds through each of them. I will admit that I bought a couple nickel boron (staked key) BCG's but I doubt I will ever have to use them. Is a staked key better than and non-staked key?.. sure. Do I worry about it... nah


As far as Colt or Bushy goes.. I would buy which ever is the best price and not worry about it. If it got as clost as $50 more for the Colt, I would probably buy the Colt but I wouldn't for $100 more. I had a Colt Sporter back in the day that was a lemon but honestly, it was probably the butchered up oem low-cap mags. I still have a couple of those mags, I should post a pic just so people can laugh at how horrible mags were back then.
__________________
"I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan
FireForged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 09:59   #51
K. Foster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mo.
Posts: 2,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedNOrange View Post
Took a rifle class a few weeks back. If your rifle wont run you get sent home and have to reschedule. approx 1200 rounds in 3 days. 2 got sent home.
I know itís a little off topic but Iím curious as to what class that was. Iíve seen instructors go to great lengths to get peopleís guns running or lend them guns. When I was teaching, Iíve let people use my guns. As a last resort, let them observe and participate as much as possible. Ejecting people from class is ridiculous and should not even be an option!
__________________
An amateur trains until he gets it right, a professional trains until he can't get it wrong.
K. Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 10:09   #52
WoodenPlank
Who?
 
WoodenPlank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 7,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
I am not sure why people seem to panic over a non-staked gas key. I have been shooting AR's since the 1980s and not a one had a staked anything. I have never experienced a single problem with a gas key even with my (2) Bushmaster shorties (circa 1999 ) that have more than 8k rounds through each of them. I will admit that I bought a couple nickel boron (staked key) BCG's but I doubt I will ever have to use them. Is a staked key better than and non-staked key?.. sure. Do I worry about it... nah


As far as Colt or Bushy goes.. I would buy which ever is the best price and not worry about it. If it got as clost as $50 more for the Colt, I would probably buy the Colt but I wouldn't for $100 more. I had a Colt Sporter back in the day that was a lemon but honestly, it was probably the butchered up oem low-cap mags. I still have a couple of those mags, I should post a pic just so people can laugh at how horrible mags were back then.
A staked gas key (and castle nut, for that matter) is cheap insurance.

Imagine buying a new car, only to find out the guy that built the engine didn't use a torque wrench on the bolts that hold it together, and they just guessed how tight they needed to be. Maybe they got it right, and maybe the engine will blow the entire top cover off 5 miles past the end of the warranty.

Not staking the key bolts is just lazy. It takes a few moments to do correctly, even with a basic tool (much less done in a jig with a machine designed to do it), and it's a cheap way to ensure that your bolts are much less likely to back out. It doesn't take much for the gas key to start leaking, and render your AR useless.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Last edited by WoodenPlank; 04-21-2013 at 10:10..
WoodenPlank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 10:25   #53
K. Foster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mo.
Posts: 2,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
I am not sure why people seem to panic over a non-staked gas key. I have been shooting AR's since the 1980s and not a one had a staked anything. I have never experienced a single problem with a gas key even with my (2) Bushmaster shorties (circa 1999 ) that have more than 8k rounds through each of them.
Iíve seen gas key bolts vibrate loose with less than 2,000 rounds. If youíve shot 16,000 though 2 guns, youíve been lucky.

Staking the gas key is not a big deal. Put the BCG in a vise. Hit the sides of the key with a hammer and punch until some metal is pushed up against the bolts. Takes about 10 minutes.
I would not be afraid to buy a rifle with an un-staked key, if it had other features that I wanted. My issue is that itís a simple but necessary step. If companies are not doing that, what else are they not doing.
__________________
An amateur trains until he gets it right, a professional trains until he can't get it wrong.
K. Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 14:46   #54
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
I don't know why people seem to panic when they pay money for half-assed merchandise.

Like someone mentioned if a manufacturer won't stake a gas key it should throw up red flags. What other corners have they cut, what is their true motive (profit?, quality?).

But then again lets just lay them out on a table, nobody could tell the difference anyway.
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 09:12   #55
BleedNOrange
Go Vols
 
BleedNOrange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Volunteer State
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Foster View Post
I know itís a little off topic but Iím curious as to what class that was. Iíve seen instructors go to great lengths to get peopleís guns running or lend them guns. When I was teaching, Iíve let people use my guns. As a last resort, let them observe and participate as much as possible. Ejecting people from class is ridiculous and should not even be an option!
Not ridiculous at all. Its a course for patrol officers. If a gun wont run it takes away from the rest of the class. If the gunsmith is having to constantly fix it and others are waiting. Loaning a gun isnt an option either. We have to provide our own gun that will be used and it needs to run 100%. The dept. isnt going to give the loaner gun to the officer so its up to him/her to have a fully operational weapon. Watching also does little to help since they will just have to return at a later date to get the proper courses of fire in.
If it was a paid course I would agree with you but in this case its not and the officer only has to reschedule.
__________________
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."
BF
BleedNOrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 09:30   #56
Matthew Courtney
CLM Number 285
Instructor #298
 
Matthew Courtney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Charles
Posts: 5,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedNOrange View Post
Not ridiculous at all. Its a course for patrol officers. If a gun wont run it takes away from the rest of the class. If the gunsmith is having to constantly fix it and others are waiting. Loaning a gun isnt an option either. We have to provide our own gun that will be used and it needs to run 100%. The dept. isnt going to give the loaner gun to the officer so its up to him/her to have a fully operational weapon. Watching also does little to help since they will just have to return at a later date to get the proper courses of fire in.
If it was a paid course I would agree with you but in this case its not and the officer only has to reschedule.
So the rifle flunks the class because one of the objectives is to test the rifle while training and testing the student simultaneously? If your rifle flunks, you flunk, too? It sounds to me that your department has a very ineffective cost management model for rifle training. It may seem to some beancounter to be more efficient to do it that way, but their are huge secondary expenses to conducting training, and they will be incurring those expenses over and over.
__________________
You will never begin in the fight you have planned for. You will begin in the fight the other guy has planned for. Retreat in a manner that leads him into your fight should he press his attack.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Matthew Courtney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 09:37   #57
BleedNOrange
Go Vols
 
BleedNOrange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Volunteer State
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
So the rifle flunks the class because one of the objectives is to test the rifle while training and testing the student simultaneously? If your rifle flunks, you flunk, too? It sounds to me that your department has a very ineffective cost management model for rifle training. It may seem to some beancounter to be more efficient to do it that way, but their are huge secondary expenses to conducting training, and they will be incurring those expenses over and over.
We get paid to take the class just as if we were on duty. They shift days off etc. I see what you are saying but having an officer take the class twice wouldnt seem very cost effective either. Even if the officer passes the class with a loaner gun they would still have to return with their gun.
__________________
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."
BF
BleedNOrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 12:06   #58
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
So the rifle flunks the class because one of the objectives is to test the rifle while training and testing the student simultaneously? If your rifle flunks, you flunk, too? It sounds to me that your department has a very ineffective cost management model for rifle training. It may seem to some beancounter to be more efficient to do it that way, but their are huge secondary expenses to conducting training, and they will be incurring those expenses over and over.
Slowing down the other shooters so the lame duck can keep up is counter productive and not realistic. The rest end up not getting the training they need. These guys aren't training to see who can knit the cutest baby blanket. In this game if your carbine fails, you fail. Why should training take on another face? It's probably cheaper to conduct quality training than to pay out benefits to widows.
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 12:31   #59
KalashniKEV
Senior Member
 
KalashniKEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NoVA
Posts: 5,623
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Slowing down the other shooters so the lame duck can keep up is counter productive and not realistic. The rest end up not getting the training they need. These guys aren't training to see who can knit the cutest baby blanket. In this game if your carbine fails, you fail. Why should training take on another face? It's probably cheaper to conduct quality training than to pay out benefits to widows.
Whoa, dude. That's DYNAMIC.
KalashniKEV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 12:36   #60
Matthew Courtney
CLM Number 285
Instructor #298
 
Matthew Courtney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Charles
Posts: 5,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedNOrange View Post
We get paid to take the class just as if we were on duty. They shift days off etc. I see what you are saying but having an officer take the class twice wouldnt seem very cost effective either. Even if the officer passes the class with a loaner gun they would still have to return with their gun.
My point was mostly that making officers prove that their rifle is worthy is asinine. It would be much cheaper to simply require that officers use rifles from an approved list. If the qualification is required anually, it would be cheaper in the long run for the department to just supply the rifles. The taxpayers are paying for more training time and training than is actually being utilized.

Training people and equipment provanance are two separate things. Mixing then creates huge inefficiencies. Their are also false assumptions being made with statistics. If a rifle has a bolt failure during a class, the likelyhood of a subsequent bolt failure is no different going forward than it was before the initial failure, but when the guy gets a new bolt, he has to begin the class from the beginning. Also, the fact that a bolt makes it through the class does not indicate that it is less likely to fail in the future. It just means that the bolt did not fail during the class.
__________________
You will never begin in the fight you have planned for. You will begin in the fight the other guy has planned for. Retreat in a manner that leads him into your fight should he press his attack.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Matthew Courtney is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 18:50.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,310
361 Members
949 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31