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Old 04-30-2013, 17:36   #21
GAFinch
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I ordered a spare extractor from PSA last year when I was building my rifle and it had some metal flashing left around part of the main hole. The part was in spec, just not properly quality-controlled. Caused me to buy a BCM BCG instead.

Check over your BCG and make sure there's no piece sticking out or lodged somewhere...or just get PSA to replace it.
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Last edited by GAFinch; 04-30-2013 at 17:36..
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Old 04-30-2013, 18:03   #22
Dizzy Beaver
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I don't know if it's relevant or not, but I did find that the retaining ring on the firing pin in the PSA BCG is much wider than on the AR15. I found this thread that explains the difference:

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=17&t=243161

Both my PSA M16 BCG and Bushmaster AR15 BCG are fully shrouded.

Edited to add: I'm also noticing that when I put the cam pin into the bolt (with the bolt not in the bolt carrier), I can turn it clockwise but not counterclockwise. When I attempt to turn it counterclockwise, it freezes up - rock solid and won't move, and then it takes quite a bit of effort to turn it clockwise. I first noticed it when I would put the cam pin into the bolt while the bolt was inside of the bolt carrier. It takes several attempts and some work to get it to rotate into position.

The cam pin on the Bushmaster bolt rotates freely both clockwise and counterclockwise without any effort.

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Old 04-30-2013, 18:43   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy Beaver View Post
Today's word of the day is....dry. The PSA BCG was dripping with Slip 2000 EWL when I put it into the rifle. I couldn't even put 100 rounds through it and it was malfunctioning like crazy. I pulled it out and replaced it with the Bushmaster BCG and shot 60 rounds through that.

I'm cleaning the rifle now and the PSA BCG is very dry. I'm shocked since it was dripping wet when I put it in the rifle. Don't know where all that EWL went. The Bushmaster BCG still looks pretty wet but I haven't taken it apart yet to see what it's like on the inside. Don't know how it got so dry in so few rounds but I think I'll be going back to Breakfree CLP and hope this was the cause of all the failures...not sure how it would cause those failures, but hopefully that's all it was.

I did notice that the firing pin sticks when putting it into the BCG, like it's getting hung up at some point and I have to push it through. Wonder if that has something to do with it? Wish I knew what was causing the problem since I won't get the rifle back out to the range for a while.
The SLIP isn't your problem, and the fact that it didn't dry up on the Bushmaster BCG shows that. Either it cooked off (unlikely) or possibly soaked into the surface of the BCG. You don't need the bolt dripping wet to run reliably, just the wear points. The cam pin, gas rings, firing pin, and bolt tail are the most important areas to worry about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy Beaver View Post
I don't know if it's relevant or not, but I did find that the retaining ring on the firing pin in the PSA BCG is much wider than on the AR15. I found this thread that explains the difference:

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=17&t=243161

Both my PSA M16 BCG and Bushmaster AR15 BCG are fully shrouded.

Edited to add: I'm also noticing that when I put the cam pin into the bolt (with the bolt not in the bolt carrier), I can turn it clockwise but not counterclockwise. When I attempt to turn it counterclockwise, it freezes up - rock solid and won't move, and then it takes quite a bit of effort to turn it clockwise. I first noticed it when I would put the cam pin into the bolt while the bolt was inside of the bolt carrier. It takes several attempts and some work to get it to rotate into position.

The cam pin on the Bushmaster bolt rotates freely both clockwise and counterclockwise without any effort.
The rough cam pin is likely the problem. Try swapping the cam pin from the Bushmaster, and see if the problem persists. If it does, then it's your bolt.

I will say this, too - I recently sent my PSA mid-length upper back for warranty after having accuracy problems with it - 6 to 8" groups at 100 yards. They issued a UPS label, and it made it from me to them, through their armorer, and back in my hands in 6 days. So far, I am impressed with the new and improved PSA customer service. I'm hoping to have it on the range tomorrow to see if the accuracy problems are fixed.

In short, I'd suggest contacting PSA. Give them a chance to make it right.
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Old 04-30-2013, 19:16   #24
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I am curious as to why you're replacing the "working" Bushmaster BCG with the PSA BCG.

I briefly considered swapping one of the BCM BCGs I have into my RRA upper to "upgrade" my RRA BCG.... but then I remembered that it's been running like a top for the last decade and has given my zero reason to mess with it.
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Old 04-30-2013, 19:35   #25
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Thanks, WoodenPlank. I tried to give them a call but they're closed. It all makes sense if it's a sticking cam pin. If the bolt can't rotate properly, it wouldn't have been in the correct position to pick up the rounds off of the top of the magazine, hence the deep gouges in the brass and constantly jamming. I put the cam pin into my Bushmaster bolt and it spins nice and freely. I tried the Bushmaster cam pin in the PSA bolt and it locks up so tight that I hurt my fingers trying to rotate it back. I'll try to give PSA a call tomorrow.

wct097 ~ I wanted to upgrade the parts that are most likely to fail and have spare parts in case something breaks. From everything I've read, Bushmaster's BCG isn't nearly the quality of other brands (quality of steel and mine wasn't staked, for example). Obviously, in this case it hasn't worked out so well. :-/
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Old 04-30-2013, 19:40   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy Beaver View Post
Thanks, WoodenPlank. I tried to give them a call but they're closed. It all makes sense if it's a sticking cam pin. If the bolt can't rotate properly, it wouldn't have been in the correct position to pick up the rounds off of the top of the magazine, hence the deep gouges in the brass and constantly jamming. I put the cam pin into my Bushmaster bolt and it spins nice and freely. I tried the Bushmaster cam pin in the PSA bolt and it locks up so tight that I hurt my fingers trying to rotate it back. I'll try to give PSA a call tomorrow.

wct097 ~ I wanted to upgrade the parts that are most likely to fail and have spare parts in case something breaks. From everything I've read, Bushmaster's BCG isn't nearly the quality of other brands (quality of steel and mine wasn't staked, for example). Obviously, in this case it hasn't worked out so well. :-/
Email them - info@palmettostatearmory.com

Alex Reiney is who took care of my upper issues, and I've been impressed with how fast he would respond to my emails.
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Old 04-30-2013, 20:22   #27
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Email sent to PSA.
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Old 04-30-2013, 21:57   #28
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IIRC, the cam has to rotate for the bolt to unlock. It wouldn't simply be moving backwards in the wrong position. That said, a sticking cam pin could very well shave momentum off of the bolt's rearward movement.

It seems odd to me that it's gouging the rounds and not allowing the mag to seat. Did you give the mag a good slap on the bottom?

Will be interesting to see what the resolution is. My SBR's BCM cam pin is pretty tight compared to my decade old RRA BCG. I wonder if mine will loosen up as it wears in. In your case, it sounds like an out of spec issue.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:07   #29
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Originally Posted by Dizzy Beaver View Post
I put the PSA BCG back in and it seats the magazine just fine now. I wonder if it's something that only shows up when the gun gets hot...
No offence intended but are you absolutely sure the mags were properly seated when the malfunctions occurred? Next time, firmly seat the mag and then attempt to pull it out to insure it’s properly seated.
Please let us know what PSA says.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:47   #30
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Yep worn mag feed lips will make them hard to seat. Cam pin - I doupt it the bolt would not unlock if its not rotating all the way- easy to ID as well the bolt lugs would be damaged, if not break off!
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:51   #31
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Yep worn mag feed lips will make them hard to seat. Cam pin - I doupt it the bolt would not unlock if its not rotating all the way- easy to ID as well the bolt lugs would be damaged, if not break off!
The cam pin doesn't rotate inside the bolt during firing, as the firing pin prevents this. However, if that pin isn't drilled 100% perfectly, it could indicate another machining issue inside the bolt head.
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Old 05-01-2013, 18:11   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickC50310 View Post
I just got one of these bcgs also so I am keeping an eye on this one. I won't be getting mine out for a couple of weeks though.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Same here, but have two, for two PSA uppers I have. I am too busy to get to the range for a week or two most likely.
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Old 05-01-2013, 21:52   #33
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Will the rifle pass a basic function check?
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Old 05-01-2013, 23:32   #34
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I bought several of the M16 bolt and carriers from PSA and have found that they fit tight in some of my uppers. Only problems I've faced with them is the drag issue caused by the carrier. Swap the bolts and retry the M16 carrier. My PSA bolts and carrier like oil, something to do with the coating.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:26   #35
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Joe Wier is in charge of figuring out what's wrong with returns. He called me when I had a BCG problem and they simply exchanged it..... along with 2k rounds of 22LR I didn't order. I thought it was a gift.... but I called them anyway and found out it was a mistake. I sent it back. Didn't even get a thanks, but my BCG does work fine, now.
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Old 05-03-2013, 20:43   #36
Dizzy Beaver
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Disappointed

At this point I'm just really disappointed. Disappointed that a brand new BCG with an MPI bolt can be so unreliable. Disappointed that less than a week after placing my order, I was home sick from work and saw BCM's BCG go "in-stock" for over a half hour but I talked myself out of ordering one because the one I had an order from PSA would be "just as good". Disappointed because it's been three days and I have yet to hear back from PSA. Disappointed at the money I wasted shooting 220 rounds of ammo to "prove" my new BCG and it still doesn't work.

Yes, I have function tested my AR with the BCG in it. At home, with A-Zoom snap caps, it works every time. On the range, after 5 rounds, it started jamming.

I still don't understand why people are blaming the magazines. I used five different magazines, all of which are "usgi" and all of which have been 100% reliable in two rifles. Even when I couldn't seat two different magazines into the rifle with the new BCG, all five magazines (I brought 6 with me, only used five) worked fine once I put the Bushy bcg back in.

Not sure what to do. Wish I would have jumped all over that BCM BCG when I sat and watched it in-stock a few weeks ago.

I suppose I'm getting what I deserve. I ought to be more careful in the future.
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:05   #37
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Originally Posted by Dizzy Beaver View Post
At this point I'm just really disappointed. Disappointed that a brand new BCG with an MPI bolt can be so unreliable. Disappointed that less than a week after placing my order, I was home sick from work and saw BCM's BCG go "in-stock" for over a half hour but I talked myself out of ordering one because the one I had an order from PSA would be "just as good". Disappointed because it's been three days and I have yet to hear back from PSA. Disappointed at the money I wasted shooting 220 rounds of ammo to "prove" my new BCG and it still doesn't work.

Yes, I have function tested my AR with the BCG in it. At home, with A-Zoom snap caps, it works every time. On the range, after 5 rounds, it started jamming.

I still don't understand why people are blaming the magazines. I used five different magazines, all of which are "usgi" and all of which have been 100% reliable in two rifles. Even when I couldn't seat two different magazines into the rifle with the new BCG, all five magazines (I brought 6 with me, only used five) worked fine once I put the Bushy bcg back in.

Not sure what to do. Wish I would have jumped all over that BCM BCG when I sat and watched it in-stock a few weeks ago.

I suppose I'm getting what I deserve. I ought to be more careful in the future.

Google AR15 function check. It doesn't involve a snap cap. Its a procedure that's taught to every recruit at basic and it tests several basic rifle functions.

Don't get down on the whole thing. There was a member here who bought a BCM bolt last year and had a problem and had to send it back as well. Manufacturing defects exist with every AR maker out there.

Also, one of the things that you mentioned is that you installed a new trigger. Double check to see that your springs are properly installed and your pins are fully seated on both sides of the receiver. Its really easy to get the hammer spring reversed.
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:14   #38
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Snap capsmdo nothing but retained the firing pin's energy.
Sux you are habpving problems. I have always researched a product
or part before I bought it. There is always a reason why one part
is $20 more than the rest. There is also a reason why one particular
brand of part is always sold out, while others sit on shelves. I usually
prefer Colt bolt carrier groups, followed by DD, BCM, LMT.
I have avoided PSA altogether, they have had customer service issues
since day one. They have lower costs on a lot of parts, but now you are
seeing one reason why they are cheaper. Sorry you are having all the issues.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:33   #39
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Google AR15 function check.
I did this and everything worked as expected. I also checked the trigger to make sure that I installed it correctly and it looks fine. It also functioned 100% with my Bushmaster BCG.

I just spoke with customer service at PSA. At first I spoke with a lady to whom I explained the problem. She asked me to hold and transferred me to a man who asked for the details and said that he couldn't think of what would be causing the issues I'm seeing. He said that he's going to send an email to somebody else and then email me back.
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Old 05-07-2013, 16:20   #40
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Two days and haven't heard a peep from PSA. Really regretting ordering from them now. :-(
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