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Old 04-29-2013, 09:43   #26
MrMurphy
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Piston ARs are an answer to an unasked question.

Colt had a piston prototype in the 1960s. The Army said no.

They had another one years later. Again, the Army said no. Didn't do anything better than what already existed. And they do add issues with accuracy and wear.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:27   #27
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OP of the three you listed Colt 1st, HK 2nd, Bushmaster 3rd !
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:13   #28
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Be aware that most HK "416" rifles in the U.S. are not actually such. They are MR556s which are substantially different internally. If you *must* have a piston, I would go with a gun designed around the piston system (Scar, AK, FAL, Tavor, etc).
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Old 04-29-2013, 13:52   #29
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Quality DI AR-15 is the way to go. Colt, Spikes, Daniel Defense, Noveske, LaRue tactical, KAC or BCM are the only options I'd consider. Can't go wrong with a stock Colt 6920 if you find one stock for Wal-Mart price, especially if you don't know how you want to set your rifle up (what works for you). Most people go through a stage of trial and error before figuring out "what works for me", listening to the advice of advanced shooters is usually a good way to skip some of that trial and error (and money).

Without getting into crazy details, IMO Daniel Defense makes the best rifle for the money, I'd recommend a DD M4 V5 or V7 in LW, but don't overpay, pre-panic the V5 could be had for 1,300-1,400, V7 is newer but should be 100-150ish cheaper.

DD makes some good fixed irons, but I'd skip their irons and go Troy folding w/ tritium inserts (personal preference), get a H-1 or T-1 on a DD, LaRue or ADM mount (I'd go ADM absolute co-witness but this is personal preference). I'd throw a Giessele SSA or SSA-E trigger on it, BCM Mod 4 (ambi) or Raptor charging handle, MS4 sling, Inforce WML and possible a Magpul AFG, RVG or hands top (KAC) depending on your shooting style (DD comes with a nice vertical foregrip) and I'd call it a day. Zero the rifle in at 50 meters and you'll have an outstanding lightweight 0-200/250 meter rifle.
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Old 04-29-2013, 14:24   #30
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Quality DI AR-15 is the way to go. Colt, Spikes, Daniel Defense, Noveske, LaRue tactical, KAC or BCM are the only options I'd consider. Can't go wrong with a stock Colt 6920 if you find one stock for Wal-Mart price, especially if you don't know how you want to set your rifle up (what works for you). Most people go through a stage of trial and error before figuring out "what works for me", listening to the advice of advanced shooters is usually a good way to skip some of that trial and error (and money).

Without getting into crazy details, IMO Daniel Defense makes the best rifle for the money, I'd recommend a DD M4 V5 or V7 in LW, but don't overpay, pre-panic the V5 could be had for 1,300-1,400, V7 is newer but should be 100-150ish cheaper.

DD makes some good fixed irons, but I'd skip their irons and go Troy folding w/ tritium inserts (personal preference), get a H-1 or T-1 on a DD, LaRue or ADM mount (I'd go ADM absolute co-witness but this is personal preference). I'd throw a Giessele SSA or SSA-E trigger on it, BCM Mod 4 (ambi) or Raptor charging handle, MS4 sling, Inforce WML and possible a Magpul AFG, RVG or hands top (KAC) depending on your shooting style (DD comes with a nice vertical foregrip) and I'd call it a day. Zero the rifle in at 50 meters and you'll have an outstanding lightweight 0-200/250 meter rifle.
You definitely pointed me in the right direction, I appreciate it!


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Old 04-29-2013, 15:07   #31
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You definitely pointed me in the right direction, I appreciate it!


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Glad I can help, it's info I'd tell myself if I could travel back in time, def would have saved myself some cash.
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Old 04-29-2013, 17:01   #32
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Daniel Defense had a price increase at SHOT this year. We are one of their biggest direct dealers and have a decent assortment in stock



https://www.primaryarms.com/Daniel_D...les_s/4281.htm
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Old 04-29-2013, 18:08   #33
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Daniel Defense had a price increase at SHOT this year. We are one of their biggest direct dealers and have a decent assortment in stock



https://www.primaryarms.com/Daniel_D...les_s/4281.htm
I hate to be the bad guy, but those prices are high. Local brick & mortar has at least 1 DD M4 V5 hanging on the wall 1,500 (a shop not exactly known for great prices), I have my name at the top of a list with an out of state dealer for 1,300 shipped.
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Old 04-29-2013, 18:18   #34
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Marshal at Primary Arms is a great guy and I bought my Eotech and other optics from him. I highly encourage doing business with them. With that said are you wanting to spend $1,500 on your first AR before you mount a red dot? You will be well over $2k with a finished rifle. I know the buy once cry once which is why I bought the Eotech. I haven't priced new Colts lately, but last I heard they were in the $1100-$1200 range. As soon as you start accessorizing your rifle it quickly goes up from there in $50-100 increments.

Building my own gun with a BCM upper & BCG, which is always mentioned in the same quality list as Colt and DD, I came in around $1,000 after sling, mounts, and Magpul back up sight.

With that said if you think you might resale then buy the Colt or DD because they will hold their value better in normal times.
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Old 04-29-2013, 18:31   #35
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I haven't priced new Colts lately, but last I heard they were in the $1100-$1200 range.
$997 at your local Wal-Mart, I would recommend waiting if you can't find one there versus overpaying. We're at that awkward moment when dealers are delusional about the price consumers are willing to pay based on what people were paying during the great false alarm of 2013. Stock is coming back because people aren't paying those prices. And yes even the traditional sources for good prices are still on the high side.

To the OP do your research when it comes to price. I recommend waiting it out rather than over paying. I have thousands that I'll be spending from saving once prices come back to normal. I'll be damned if I'm going to overpay for anything!
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Old 04-29-2013, 18:42   #36
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I hate to be the bad guy, but those prices are high. Local brick & mortar has at least 1 DD M4 V5 hanging on the wall 1,500 (a shop not exactly known for great prices), I have my name at the top of a list with an out of state dealer for 1,300 shipped.
As a Daniel Defense factory direct on line dealer we have pricing guidelines that we have to follow. Forum members learn that contacting site sponsors direct before making a large purchase is a good thing to do.
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Old 04-29-2013, 19:15   #37
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As a Daniel Defense factory direct on line dealer we have pricing guidelines that we have to follow. Forum members learn that contacting site sponsors direct before making a large purchase is a good thing to do.
Well that makes sense considering the more than fair prices Primary Arms has kept even during the panic. I think we all appreciate that.
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Old 04-29-2013, 20:46   #38
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Your first AR should be a AK..
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:47   #39
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Your first AR should be a AK..
But I was told those were evil! Lol


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Old 04-30-2013, 09:50   #40
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So I'm buying my first AR next month from my LGS... Any suggestions? Appreciate the input.


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First determine your budget and how much you can afford for the rifle,ammo and magazines along with tools and other equipment needed to maintain/use the rifle.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:02   #41
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First determine your budget and how much you can afford for the rifle,ammo and magazines along with tools and other equipment needed to maintain/use the rifle.
+1 You need to also budget mags(at least 10), ammo(not the best time to buy, and a solid cleaning kit, and lastly a good optic(Aimpoint Pro).
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:33   #42
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+1 You need to also budget mags(at least 10), ammo(not the best time to buy, and a solid cleaning kit, and lastly a good optic(Aimpoint Pro).
Just 10??? I'm approaching 200, mostly pmags, I buy here and there. Mags are a disposable item, I'd recommend at least 30 and ideally 50 or more rifles per mag. Regarding optics, lights and other various upgrades, the OP doesn't need to buy it all at once, but should be mindful these will be part of the cost, along with purchase of vital/vulnerable spare parts.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:10   #43
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This won't be a one shot deal I don't think. Ill buy the rifle now, mags on the way, and ammo when I can find it. Optics will come when I can afford a good one and not something that's just "ok."


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Old 04-30-2013, 13:34   #44
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Just 10??? I'm approaching 200, mostly pmags, I buy here and there. Mags are a disposable item, I'd recommend at least 30 and ideally 50 or more rifles per mag. Regarding optics, lights and other various upgrades, the OP doesn't need to buy it all at once, but should be mindful these will be part of the cost, along with purchase of vital/vulnerable spare parts.
I wish i had 50 rifles per mag!
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Old 04-30-2013, 16:50   #45
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He's got some bushmaster, colt, and one HK.

I'm definitely thinking carbine and piston. Probably going to do it through gun broker since my LGS only has so much. Thanks much for be input so far guys


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As someone else, said - Colt, then HK, and Bushmaster is an extremely distant third. I also agree with Murphy, that piston ARs are an answer to a question almost nobody was asking. The only time I can see piston uppers really being a 'need' is when you combine 100% suppressed use with a short barrel and very high volumes of fire. Very few people check all of those boxes.

Also, piston ARs are very proprietary - not just to piston vs direct gas, but between piston companies. Very few - if any - parts on the gas piston system for one brand will fit another, with the sole exception being a couple of licensing agreements. Even then, you're going to have a MUCH harder time finding spare or replacement parts except direct from the manufacturer.
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Old 04-30-2013, 17:14   #46
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So I'm buying my first AR next month from my LGS... Any suggestions? Appreciate the input.
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Old 04-30-2013, 22:02   #47
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Stay away from Bushmaster, quality has been sub-par for years. Good reliable M4/AR platforms in No specific order:
Colt
BCM
DD
Noveske
LaRue
Windham Weaponry
Sig Sauer

The HK is VERY expensive and not very easy to find.




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Old 04-30-2013, 22:09   #48
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Stay away from Bushmaster, quality has been sub-par for years. Good reliable M4/AR platforms in No specific order:
Colt
BCM
DD
Noveske
LaRue
Windham Weaponry
Sig Sauer

The HK is VERY expensive and not very easy to find.




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Thanks a lot you helped a lot. Think i settled on a colt 6920.

Originally I was like BUSHMASHTER YAY but now... Bush is the readheaded step child


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Old 05-01-2013, 04:20   #49
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Stay away from Bushmaster, quality has been sub-par for years. Good reliable M4/AR platforms in No specific order:
Colt
BCM
DD
Noveske
LaRue
Windham Weaponry
Sig Sauer

The HK is VERY expensive and not very easy to find.




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I'd stay away from Windham Weaponry and Sig, especially Sig. You left out Spikes and KAC, especially Spikes considering that will be an affordable option. The HK MR556 is a PIG, heavy, especially nose heavy with a quirky take down mechanism. I'm sure their piston system is reliable and durable (probably the only reliable/durable piston system except maybe LWRC), but unnecessary. If the OP wants a piston driven gun, I'll recommend the SCAR 16s.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:57   #50
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Can't go wrong with a Colt....I have two. I've built 4 others and used no Colt parts. They all work great and good parts make a good gun. A friend of mine just bought a S&W and it seems like a nice rifle but I have not shot it yet, Mike.
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