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Old 05-08-2013, 21:36   #26
Geko45
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Originally Posted by Daltini View Post
It is simple, padawon. Go to the university and there will you see the graaave truth about religion from super smart professors with ideas.
I went to a christian university because I was a believer at the time. All of my professors were also believers including two that had their doctorates in divinity. I started the program as a christian and ended it as an atheist. After studying the bible in depth in an academic setting, there was no way I could still honestly defend the notion that it was inerrant.
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:45   #27
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Of course it is. Why don't you point me in the right direction? lol.
Have you ever considered that maybe your religion was a cleaver con?

What religion are you?

What sect?

I can only point you in the right direction if you are willing to share.

I do enjoy a good discussion on what people believe and why.

Most people are not willing to go too deep on their beliefs.

.
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:54   #28
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Originally Posted by NMG26 View Post
Have you ever considered that maybe your religion was a cleaver con?

What religion are you?

What sect?

I can only point you in the right direction if you are willing to share.

I do enjoy a good discussion on what people believe and why.

Most people are not willing to go too deep on their beliefs.

.
I too enjoy discussions so long as they dont degenerate into a pissing match. I am christian but as far as denomination I don't really identify with any of them. Mainly because I het tied to some of the poorer decisions made by people of that denomination. That being said I attend a Pentecostal church but I am comfortable in a lot of other churches if they meat a certain criteria.

I actually walked away from my faith for a time much to my parents dismay. I came back though
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:01   #29
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I too enjoy discussions so long as they dont degenerate into a pissing match. I am christian but as far as denomination I don't really identify with any of them. Mainly because I het tied to some of the poorer decisions made by people of that denomination. That being said I attend a Pentecostal church but I am comfortable in a lot of other churches if they meat a certain criteria.

I actually walked away from my faith for a time much to my parents dismay. I came back though
I am familiar with the Pentecostal church. I attended one for a year or so..........Church of God I think. I was also in a cult called The Way International for several years. The cult met my criteria.......until it didn't.

What is the criteria that must be met in order for you to be comfortable?

.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:03   #30
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It is simple, padawon. Go to the university and there will you see the graaave truth about religion from super smart professors with ideas.
Hate to nerd up on you, but it is padawan.

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Seems you got it figured out.

Everything has a spin.

Really I think the best answer to JB's question was given by juggy4711 "Simple. Realize that spirituality and belief in God are not bad things but that religion is".

Yep

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I too enjoy discussions so long as they dont degenerate into a pissing match. I am christian but as far as denomination I don't really identify with any of them. Mainly because I het tied to some of the poorer decisions made by people of that denomination. That being said I attend a Pentecostal church but I am comfortable in a lot of other churches if they meat a certain criteria...
So basically you go to a church with one of the most strict doctrines but are comfortable with others, as long as they meet that strict doctrine?



To expand on that subject briefly...
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:16   #31
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I am familiar with the Pentecostal church. I attended one for a year or so..........Church of God I think. I was also in a Cult called The Way International for several years. The cult met my criteria.......until it didn't.

What is the criteria that must be met in order for you to be comfortable?

.
What did you think of it? I like a lot of them because the people tend to be more excited about the word and act on it throughout their daily lives. Not aure what I think about speaking in tongues though

Never heard of that. What is it?

Well first that they teach out of the bible. Not some curriculum. A series of teachings is on a subject is fine though. To many people come with X step program to change your life blah blah blah. They just need to teach the concepts of the bible.

Second the leaders in the church lead by example which should be striving to be like Jesus.

Third they should be excited about it. Been to so many dull churches who seem to have given up. It makes it harder.

What is your criteria?
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:18   #32
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Hate to nerd up on you, but it is padawan.



Yep



So basically you go to a church with one of the most strict doctrines but are comfortable with others, as long as they meet that strict doctrine?



To expand on that subject briefly...
Remind what the strict doctrine of a Pentecostal church is? I cannot recall it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:24   #33
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Remind what the strict doctrine of a Pentecostal church is? I cannot recall it.
Belief in direct supernatural gifts is one that springs to mind (speaking in tongues, healing, etc.)
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:29   #34
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Belief in direct supernatural gifts is one that springs to mind (speaking in tongues, healing, etc.)
They believe and teach on it but I do no agree that it is strict doctrine. Never got the impression that we were being indoctrinated. My experience is somewhat limited however.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:59   #35
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Remind what the strict doctrine of a Pentecostal church is? I cannot recall it.
Then you have never been to a Pentecostal church.

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Belief in direct supernatural gifts is one that springs to mind (speaking in tongues, healing, etc.)
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They believe and teach on it but I do no agree that it is strict doctrine. Never got the impression that we were being indoctrinated. My experience is somewhat limited however.
Obviously.
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Old 05-08-2013, 23:09   #36
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Then you have never been to a Pentecostal church.





Obviously.
Go be condescending somewhere else. I have been to many including one of the nations largest for years. But what do I know?
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Old 05-08-2013, 23:25   #37
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What did you think of it? I like a lot of them because the people tend to be more excited about the word and act on it throughout their daily lives. Not aure what I think about speaking in tongues though

Never heard of that. What is it?

Well first that they teach out of the bible. Not some curriculum. A series of teachings is on a subject is fine though. To many people come with X step program to change your life blah blah blah. They just need to teach the concepts of the bible.

Second the leaders in the church lead by example which should be striving to be like Jesus.

Third they should be excited about it. Been to so many dull churches who seem to have given up. It makes it harder.

What is your criteria?
I've come to some conclusions on the concepts of the bible that no longer allow me to be called a Christian.

Though I am no longer a Christian, I know that I learned a lot from my time as a Christian.

I'm not jaded and I have no regrets about my time as a Christian. I had to experience it to be where I am today. The same God that led me into Christianity, led me out of Christianity. The religion is just a shell that allows spiritual growth. At the same time there is something in it that stifles spiritual growth. It is a paradox.

When your time comes to grow out of it, you will.

It does not happen for everyone.
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Old 05-08-2013, 23:40   #38
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I've come to some conclusions on the concepts of the bible that no longer allow me to be called a Christian.

Though I am no longer a Christian, I know that I learned a lot from my time as a Christian.

I'm not jaded and I have no regrets about my time as a Christian. I had to experience it to be where I am today. The same God that led me into Christianity, led me out of Christianity. The religion is just a shell that allows spiritual growth. At the same time there is something in it that stifles spiritual growth. It is a paradox.

When your time comes to grow out of it, you will.

It does not happen for everyone.
So what sort of conclusions have you reached? I'm curious because lately Church has been discouraging for me and not attending yet still having a relationship with god seems to be a possibility...
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Old 05-09-2013, 00:10   #39
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So what sort of conclusions have you reached? I'm curious because lately Church has been discouraging for me and not attending yet still having a relationship with god seems to be a possibility...
Have to be another day.

Gotta run.

Thanks for asking though.

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:20   #40
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Does it bother you that approximately 95% of the world's population disagrees with you?

Do you think they are all wrong and you are right?

In what other areas are you smarter than everyone else?

95%?

Man, you're worse than the liberals. Did you help them come up with that 90% agree with background checks statistic, also?
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:11   #41
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Seems you got it figured out.

Everything has a spin.

Really I think the best answer to JB's question was given by juggy4711 "Simple. Realize that spirituality and belief in God are not bad things but that religion is".

I think this is a great answer, in fact a very good friend of mine is a pastor and was the one who when I was young explained the very important difference between a personal relationship with god and organized religion. You will find that most Atheists have issue with the latter, not the former..

If u were stuck on an island alone, with no church, no bible etc., would that make you any less faithful? Organized religion exists to control its population. Bringing u closer to your god is just a smoke screen to help with control and obedience of its subjects

While it may test your faith, and in such u may become stronger or abandon your current beliefs. I venture to guess the presence of the tools of organized religion will not be the cause of your belief changes

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:14   #42
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95%?

Man, you're worse than the liberals. Did you help them come up with that 90% agree with background checks statistic, also?
rofl :d
That, or he used the same statisticians Romeny used to ugh, win the election.

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Old 05-09-2013, 09:09   #43
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I came to the deductions summarized in the OP based on my own readings on history, archeology, geography, genetics, other subjects, and yes, the Bible itself.

When you toss out the supernatural aspects in the Bible and begin to look at as a pure exercise in the practical politics and political propaganda of that day and age, the events in it begin to make a heck of a lot more sense.

The 95%/5% thing?

Hey, all of our ancestors back to the rise of the Nation-State, about 5-6,000 years, were so indoctrinated from childhood into the "Sockpuppet God" mantra that by now, it is practically hardwired into us.

How old were YOU when your parents & "friends at Church" had you singing "Jesus Loves Me, This I KNOW, for the Bible TELLS ME SO. Etc."?

And then gushed all over you; "My, aren't you so cuuuuute and smart!"

????

Who wouldn't buy the Sockpuppet God Con with that degree of positive and negative mental conditioning (you'll burn in Hades if you don't buy the Sockpuppet God Con!) we were all exposed to long before we could think as rational adults?

By the time we are rational adults, we have been conditioned against considering any concept that "God" is just the Shaman's Sockpuppet.

Why else would 19 Muslims take over 4 airliners and slam them into buildings to kill over 3,000 people to re-unite Religion and Government into a single religio-political entity?

Or more recently, blow up a bunch of people at a Marathon?

True believers, to the death, theirs and others, in the SockPuppet God Con!

True success stories of their Con Man Imams and Ayatollahs and their SockPuppet, Allah.

Eliminate the Con and you eliminate the horrors that arise from the Con.

And the Shamans will be reduced to doing honest work for a change.


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Old 05-09-2013, 09:20   #44
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Bork, you know why Theists indoctronate (sp) children at such a young age?
Because if religion waited till the kids were 21YO, most would not be interested...
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:22   #45
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Anyone want to take a guess at how many convicts conveinently find God in prison because they know it will impress the parole board and get them back on the streets sooner? Religion is a sham
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:41   #46
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Anyone want to take a guess at how many convicts conveinently find God in prison because they know it will impress the parole board and get them back on the streets sooner? Religion is a sham
Hey don't go messing with my shooting range time. Sunday morning is great range time. Just me and two or three other heathens, got the place to ourselves.

Church is a good place for them to be. About the time church gets out I am thru shooting, works out great
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:47   #47
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then g36shooter shows up and further attempts to tear religion up.
I'm flattered I get called out by name. I must have made an impression.

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It is simple, padawon. Go to the university and there will you see the graaave truth about religion from super smart professors with ideas.
See right there you're shooting yourself in the foot. You are treating education like it's the enemy. You are treating a place of learning like your enemy. This is the type of control that the church ever so secretly has over its members. You begin to hear like minded people talking about the evils of higher education. It is true that exposing yourself to higher education will ding up your religious belief a little (Depending on what you study) but that's not because it's the enemy. Religion relies on ignorance to perpetuate itself. The more adversarial you are to the university... the more embedded in the church you are. Unless you go to a religious university where they teach completely made up nonsense that supports doctrine.

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Of course it is. Why don't you point me in the right direction? lol.
That won't work I'm afraid. We've shown many a believer towards information that would educate and enlighten them. But they rarely seek it out (Because the church says it's evil) and because they already have their mind made up they aren't going to give it a fair shake.

If you truly want to know... then study. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Organized religion doesn't like questions... because they will try and scare you into thinking you have no faith or are coming under the control of demons. But so what? Is God so flawed and failed a being that he cannot endure a little questioning? My parents created me and I questioned them all the time. From things like "Where do stars com from?" to "I want to know why sex outside of marriage is so wrong? What's so damn evil about it?" Of course not all at the same age LOL. But I have to imagine any supreme being would want their little children to be curious and not just sit there and accept things that don't make sense. Surly He/She/It/They wouldn't want a bunch of brainless simpletons running around shouting "YUP! Cuz the bible says so!"

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I am christian but as far as denomination I don't really identify with any of them. Mainly because I het tied to some of the poorer decisions made by people of that denomination. That being said I attend a Pentecostal church
That's Church of God right? We got some strange ones around here. Don't know if it's like that everywhere but here they seem to be a wacky bunch. They're always having book burnings and CD stomping parties. A guy I used to be fairly close with got pulled into one. He was a huge music buff like me. But he was older so he had had a long time to collect music. He had a Record/Tape/And CD Collection that was worth MANY thousands of dollars. He had records older than me. Older than my Brother and Sisters too. But somehow they got to him and made him feel like he belonged. He had recently lost his father so I don't know if that had anything to do with it. But he took all those records, tapes, and CDs except for the ones he gave me... and they stomped them into the ground and smashed them with sledge hammers and burned them as a symbol of his commitment to God. Because they were evil devil music like "The Beatles" or "Chicago" or even worse "Aerosmith". And they run huge propaganda campaigns against music and literature. My chick's mother also goes to this church and takes her little girl with her (It's one of those things where if we don't let her take her to church... she just would disown the little girl claiming she's lost to the devil so we try to keep the peace) She's told me that they take a lot of popular music and make their own graphic videos to be played to them. Like take the song "Bring Me To Life" by Evanescence. The original video is of her singing on the edge of a big building and at one moment she's dreaming she's falling and the next she's climbing up the building. Pretty basic rock video. They made a video of young people slitting their wrists and being possessed by demons and all sorts of other craziness and told everyone this is what this music is telling your children. And they do the speaking in tongues and faith healings and seizures in the isles and all that j*** too.

Quote:
but I am comfortable in a lot of other churches if they meat a certain criteria.
LMAO... I'm not picking on your spelling. I mean I'm a terrible speller... but it always makes me laugh when someone uses "Meat" as a verb.

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I actually walked away from my faith for a time much to my parents dismay. I came back though
Most of my family disowned me when I walked away from the church and want nothing to do with me still. Funny how that "unconditional love" suddenly becomes real conditional. I rarely speak to my sisters or brother. I'm close with Mom and take care of her now that she's 73. But I really don't have siblings anymore. But their kids think I'm the coolest thing since sliced bread... and that burns them up.

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They believe and teach on it but I do no agree that it is strict doctrine. Never got the impression that we were being indoctrinated. My experience is somewhat limited however.
You are, and that's not to insult you. It happens whenever you're exposed to group think. Just like earlier where you were labeling universities as the enemy. Think about that. A place of higher learning... school... is bad because you might learn things that contradict what the church is saying. That's indoctrination. You are being told what to think and how to think. If something conflicts with the bible it is of the devil, if it supports it, it must be good.

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So what sort of conclusions have you reached? I'm curious because lately Church has been discouraging for me and not attending yet still having a relationship with god seems to be a possibility...
You don't need church dude. It's more or less a business. They want you to fill that collection plate. Be your own Pastor. Read, study, explore. Go outside the bible and learn about the cultures that existed during its construction. The world was such a bigger and more alive place than the bible would lead you to believe at that time. There were amazing cultures with timeless art, literature, and even the foundations of modern science. You don't need someone else to tell you how to walk your path. Just get on it and go. Might lead you to some truths you weren't expecting. But if you take their path... it will lead you right where they want it to.
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Old 05-09-2013, 14:35   #48
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Bork, you know why Theists indoctronate (sp) children at such a young age?
Because if religion waited till the kids were 21YO, most would not be interested...
Yup.

I think any religious exposure before the age of 21 should be considered child abuse.

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Old 05-09-2013, 14:39   #49
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Hey don't go messing with my shooting range time. Sunday morning is great range time. Just me and two or three other heathens, got the place to ourselves.

Church is a good place for them to be. About the time church gets out I am thru shooting, works out great
Here in the south you run into ranges where gunfire is forbidden until Noon on Sunday.

It is generally called the "Baptist Break".

So there goes your trigger time.



I've toyed with the idea of starting my own Agnostic Religion.

No church.

Just all meet on the range Sunday morning and and make loud noises to the greater glory of Saint John Moses Browning.

Or maybe some golden oldie sockpuppet gawd like Odin, Frey, Mars, whoever it is the Sihks worship or someGawd.

Tax exempt status; everything.

Then again, I already have that at ranges that do NOT honor the Baptist break.

Would be nice to work in that tax exempt thing, though.


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Old 05-09-2013, 15:12   #50
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It is simple, padawon. Go to the university and there will you see the graaave truth about religion from super smart professors with ideas.
Liberal/socialist/communist ideas...
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