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Old 05-29-2013, 18:37   #26
Bruce M
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Whenever I hear "you don't want xxx brand because ..." I always wonder if what I am really hearing at the gun store is "I am going to make more commission or the store will make more profit from yyy brand."
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Old 05-29-2013, 21:17   #27
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Old 05-29-2013, 23:01   #28
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Originally Posted by Three-Five-Seven View Post
A Glock does require some "training" as part of owning one. And, a Glock does require a proper holster to be 100% safe all of the time.

These characteristics make it ill-suited for some people. That's fine. Who cares? Doesn't affect me.

A Glock is not a good choice for a careless person or a person who uses alcohol or drugs or a person who is infirm. And, while there are probably no "good choices" for such people, a Glock is a poorer choice than a Smith revolver, to be sure.

Not my problem, or your's either, dare I say.
I agree with that, it's not for people who are careless or don't THINK about what they are doing. I was reluctant to buy the G 26 because it didn't have a manual safety. Only bought it because all the other modern subcompacts are built the same. Overall, I'd say they are safer for police and military people who carry all the time and are conscious of the weapon and how it works.

Biggest problem we have (that feeds the gun control lpbby) isn't gun owners, it's stupid gun owners.
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Old 05-30-2013, 00:51   #29
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Originally Posted by carloglock19 View Post
I followed that thread and even tried to simulate all the possible scenarios that were mentioned with no results (yeah I was bored). Not sure what happened and we never got a definite answer.

I was wondering the same thing.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:19   #30
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What was the final story on the guy who posted that he laid his Glock down on the table and it fired? I know that that there were like a million posts on the thread but what happened?
It had been modified by a previous owner. Was sold as new
though it turned out to be used.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:33   #31
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So someone could buy a "new" Glock that is unsafe? If they were not as experienced in firearms as we all are, they could find themselves with less safety?
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:18   #32
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Over this past weekend I was in a local gun shop in Gulfport Miss. A lady was looking at 9mm for her home and a salesperson was attending to her needs. They had looked at several pistols when she asked him if he had any others to look at-she kind of looked at me when she asked her question. I said well what about a Glock 19? The sales guy said that he did not like Glocks BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SAFETY. The young lady said well I do not want a pistol without a safety. I did not want to be "that guy" so I just went back to my own shopping. I may have said that if you did not want the thing to fire keep your finger off the trigger. I do not remember if I just thought it or really said it. No safety, well OK!
Glock pistols do not have a discretionary user-applied safety. THAT is a fact. This argument has been going on since I first joined this site, now, more than 10 years ago; and it shows no signs of going away anytime soon.

I've, also, got more than 60 years of gun handling experience that have taught me it's impossible for any gunman to keep his finger off the trigger 100% of the time - Ain't never going to happen! This said: As long as a Glockeroo isn't standing on my right-hand side while he's using his, 'perfect' Glock I don't care how safe he thinks his Glock is. ('I just shot myself with my Glock' threads are a, 'hoot' - anyway!)

The last pistol on Planet Earth that I would recommend to a woman who has little, or no, experience with firearms is a Glock. Personally I think the salesman gave her correct information; and I admire him for both his care and acumen.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:24   #33
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I guess the other side of this would be, gun salesman sells 1st time gun owner with zero experience a 1911 variant, who in the moment of need cannot fire the pistol because she has no idea how to make the darn thing work.

Hopefully he just sold her a .38 revolver.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:50   #34
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post

I've, also, got more than 60 years of gun handling experience that have taught me it's impossible for any gunman to keep his finger off the trigger 100% of the time - Ain't never going to happen!
The only truth to that statement is at the range or in
a SD situation. Other then that there are many shooters
that manage to keep their finger off the trigger and out
of the trigger guard 100% of the time. It's all about training.

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The last pistol on Planet Earth that I would recommend to a woman who has little, or no, experience with firearms is a Glock. Personally I think the salesman gave her correct information; and I admire him for both his care and acumen.
Don't you mean a person with little or no experience??

Or are you saying this only affects women?
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:01   #35
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Gunshops are one of the worst sources for accurate information. In more recent years, online forums have become almost as bad.
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Originally Posted by eagle359 View Post
Over this past weekend I was in a local gun shop in Gulfport Miss. A lady was looking at 9mm for her home and a salesperson was attending to her needs. They had looked at several pistols when she asked him if he had any others to look at-she kind of looked at me when she asked her question. I said well what about a Glock 19? The sales guy said that he did not like Glocks BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SAFETY. The young lady said well I do not want a pistol without a safety. I did not want to be "that guy" so I just went back to my own shopping. I may have said that if you did not want the thing to fire keep your finger off the trigger. I do not remember if I just thought it or really said it. No safety, well OK!
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:04   #36
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Personally I think the salesman gave her correct information; and I admire him for both his care and acumen.
The information was incorrect, I guess you are saying he lied to her for her own good?

As a woman, she couldn't have comprehended "The Glock has three internal automatic safeties, but you must keep your finger off the trigger"? Best that he just make that decision for her and not trouble her little head with intricacies?

What other groups should be protected from themselves with kind lies if necessary?
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:11   #37
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Originally Posted by mjw357 View Post
I guess the other side of this would be, gun salesman sells 1st time gun owner with zero experience a 1911 variant, who in the moment of need cannot fire the pistol because she has no idea how to make the darn thing work.

Hopefully he just sold her a .38 revolver.
Or any conventional SA/DA semiauto.

Surely, the new user will remember that the first round fired defending their life requires (maybe) swiping the safety/decocker up, down, etc. and a 12 pound trigger pull, and that 3 pound trigger pull of the subsequent shots will feel like 4 ounces to their adrenalized finger. No problem, just swipe the decocker either up, in, down, or forward to drop the hammer, and the pistol either is now on safe or off safe, depending on where the model number falls on the decoder wheel.

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Old 05-30-2013, 07:15   #38
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The only truth to that statement is at the range or in a SD situation. Other then that there are many shooters that manage to keep their finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard 100% of the time. It's all about training.

Don't you mean a person with little or no experience?? Or are you saying this only affects women?
One: You're rambling. Two: You're either misinformed, largely inexperienced, or delusional; and, three: I'm, presently, inclined to include you in my above remarks. If you're more comfortable, would you like me to forget that a woman is the referenced salesman's principal addressee; or do you want me to change the copy to read, 'a woman and Clarkz71'? Let me know; I'll be glad to make my reply more androgynous for you if that's what you really want.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:33   #39
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One: You're rambling. Two: You're either misinformed, largely inexperienced, or delusional; and, three: I'm, presently, inclined to include you in my above remarks. If you're more comfortable, would you like me to forget that a woman is the referenced salesman's principal addressee; or do you want me to change the copy to read, 'a woman and Clarkz71'? Let me know; I'll be glad to make my reply more androgynous for you if that's what you really want.
Not the first time you've made a fool of yourself on this forum.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:33   #40
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The information was incorrect, I guess you are saying he lied to her for her own good?

As a woman, she couldn't have comprehended "The Glock has three internal automatic safeties, but you must keep your finger off the trigger"? Best that he just make that decision for her and not trouble her little head with intricacies?

What other groups should be protected from themselves with kind lies if necessary?
The information that salesman gave her is not, 'incorrect'. Instead it's highly applicable and pragmatic.

When it comes to comprehending that a Glock has three internal safeties you completely fail to appreciate that only one of them is directly applicable to actually firing a Glock.

Guess you don't know; so let me be the first to enlighten you: Glock's so-called, 'drop safety' isn't really a drop safety. It does NOT prevent a Glock from firing if it is dropped. (Apparently you need to read more Glock Talk!)

Glock's striker safety can be - and in government conducted tests has been - defeated. '100%' Glock's striker safety ain't!
The only 100% user-related safety on a Glock is the trigger safety; and it's this safety that the salesman referenced above and myself don't trust 100%.

By the way I've taught any number of either lightly, or largely inexperienced women how to both shoot and handle a handgun. I'll venture that I know a whole lot better than you what women, generally, can and can't do with handguns. As far as this old Range Safety Officer is concerned it's arrogant and overconfident shooters just like some of those who've already replied to this thread that need to be watched the most for careless or casual ND's.

(Just saying!)

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Old 05-30-2013, 07:35   #41
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Not the first time you've made a fool of yourself on this forum.
Nor you, Sport!
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:36   #42
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By the way I've taught any number of either lightly, or largely inexperienced women how to both shoot and handle a handgun. I'll venture that I know a whole lot better than you what women, generally, can and can't do with handguns.
And the hole gets deeper.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:56   #43
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Getting back on track a little bit here... I really think the salesman in a gun store who gets guys coming in all the time with their wife or significant other to pick out a handgun for her protection is in a challenging position.

In a very short time, he needs to figure out who he is dealing with and what their wants, needs and level of experience are.

A Smith 642 air weight 38 special revolver might be the perfect gun for one customer, while the next one might very well be served perfectly by a Glock.


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Old 05-30-2013, 08:02   #44
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And the hole gets deeper.
You know what I've noticed about Glock Talk? With only one or two outstanding exceptions, since I started here ALL of the really knowledgeable Senior GT Members - Many of them well recognized names in gun training and the shooting sports - have dropped off the board, and left Glock Talk to these interloping complete idiots who like to come in here, hang around for awhile, and make, 'waves' before they eventually disappear.

There are, literally, dozens of highly qualified gunmen whom I'm no longer able to exchange viewpoints and useful information with; and that's really a shame. So, who's left? Wise guys, anonymous cyberspace braggadocios, and those I would describe as essentially non-contributing, 'internet gun forum detritus'. I'll grant you, these guys invariably know how to be annoying, but genuinely useful? No, not at all.

(You know whom I'm talking about, right! OK, now I'm done with ya.)
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:05   #45
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When showing a Glock, I field strip it to show the internal saftey features and oiling points. Always.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:21   #46
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Glock pistols do not have a discretionary user-applied safety. THAT is a fact. This argument has been going on since I first joined this site, now, more than 10 years ago; and it shows no signs of going away anytime soon. I've, also, got more than 60 years of gun handling experience that have taught me it's impossible for any gunman to keep his finger off the trigger 100% of the time - Ain't never going to happen! This said: As long as a Glockeroo isn't standing on my right-hand side while he's using his, 'perfect' Glock I don't care how safe he thinks his Glock is. ('I just shot myself with my Glock' threads are a, 'hoot' - anyway!) The last pistol on Planet Earth that I would recommend to a woman who has little, or no, experience with firearms is a Glock. Personally I think the salesman gave her correct information; and I admire him for both his care and acumen.
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...(With me there's often, but not always, an extra step: I frequently need to perfectly grab the pistol's frame, AND rack the slide out of C-3 as the muzzle passes, 'low ready' and, 'drives' into the target's center.)...
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...If I'm in C-1 (not often) I, also, push the holster back to 2:30 before I sit down. When you're sitting behind a vehicle's steering wheel, there ain't nothing faster than, 'appendix carry'...
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The usual justification for C-1 carry is to be immediately ready to respond to an instantaneous CQB ambush. I'm going to remind that there is more than one way to do exactly that. For instance, two of my uncles survived warfare in the South Pacific during WWII. They were required to download their 1911's to only 5 rounds and NOT carry chambered. They returned home after the war. None ever complained about the manner in which they were ordered to use and carry their pistols. The Israeli Mossad is, also, legendary for going into combat while carrying and using their pistols from C-3...
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A pretensioned striker-fired pistol kept in C-1, and your family simply don't belong together!
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...I keep my EDC Glock in C-3; and I'm as fast with it as I've ever needed to be...the above might NOT be good advice for someone who is not as experienced with Glock pistols-in-particular, and firearms-in-general as I am.
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Me, (but the pistol is in C-3).
Maybe, like you, that salesman is carrying with an empty chamber.

I hope that that woman will get better advice, and good formal training, and follow it.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:35   #47
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A glock is not the best choice for a drawer gun. At leat thats what we used to call the pistol an unexperienced owner(not shooter) would buy to load and shove in a drawer hoping not to ever see it again.

Most of us have bought one of these(safe queen) guns frequently with the the original box of ammo sometimes minus one full load.(usually thrown away not shot off)

Revolvers or anything with a manual mechanical lever safety would be a better choice.

A glock is one of the best shooters guns in the world however not for non shooters.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:56   #48
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A Glock has a mystery about it, because of no external hammer, hidden ammo you cannot see, hidden ammo in the barrel, no external safety . Take a hammer handgun, and someone not real good with mechanical objects, and they can understand it easier. Add an external safety and it helps them to get along with the gun.

Revolvers are easy to train with, because there is no mystery in how they work. The long, hard trigger pull, helps prevent Glock leg and other negligent discharges.

Glocks are a good military, police and mechanical persons handgun because they get the concept, via extensive training or mechanical aptitude. A grocery mom may not care to invest of herself enough to really and trully figure out what safetys a Glock does have and how to properly address them so the gun reaches 100% potential under their ownership.

IMHO there are easier to train with firearms to present to the general public that has limited understanding of mechanical objects.

I own a Glock 20, over twenty years. Never an issue with it. Personally prefer an external safety that I add to my trigger blocking holster. My holster, and my Safe T Bloc gives me redundant safeguards against negligent discharges. For myself, that is the only way to own, train, and use a Glock to be as close to 100 % safe with the firearm as possible.

To my knowledge, no Glock owner that keeps their Glock holstered all the time, except to purposefully use the gun, that also faithfully uses the Safe T Bloc, has ever had a negligent discharge.

I teach handgun safety for the NRA, am a long lifetime member of NRA, and recently upgraded to Endowment. The three point safety regimen of the NRA is not always 100% effective because we do carry loaded guns with us. That leaves two safety declarations. Muzzle control is hard to do all the time. Our right leg is the the most abused by this rule, holstering. So that leaves just one safety mechanism. Keep your index finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Our hands go places our eyes cannot always follow, and our fingers sometimes get off track. One little slip, one involuntarily movement, and bang.

That is why I use and train the way I do.



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Old 05-30-2013, 09:17   #49
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Quote:
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You know what I've noticed about Glock Talk? With only one or two outstanding exceptions, since I started here ALL of the really knowledgeable Senior GT Members - Many of them well recognized names in gun training and the shooting sports - have dropped off the board, and left Glock Talk to these interloping complete idiots who like to come in here, hang around for awhile, and make, 'waves' before they eventually disappear.

(You know whom I'm talking about, right! OK, now I'm done with ya.)
So now the majority of the GT forum is made up of
"interloping complete idiots"??

You just get better and better.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:36   #50
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No, he said the whole forum is made up of idiots ("All the really knowledgeable sr. GT members left"). Get it right there, South Florida. Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
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So now the majority of the GT forum is made up of
"interloping complete idiots"??

You just get better and better.
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