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Old 05-30-2013, 07:35   #41
Arc Angel
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Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
Not the first time you've made a fool of yourself on this forum.
Nor you, Sport!
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:36   #42
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By the way I've taught any number of either lightly, or largely inexperienced women how to both shoot and handle a handgun. I'll venture that I know a whole lot better than you what women, generally, can and can't do with handguns.
And the hole gets deeper.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:56   #43
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Getting back on track a little bit here... I really think the salesman in a gun store who gets guys coming in all the time with their wife or significant other to pick out a handgun for her protection is in a challenging position.

In a very short time, he needs to figure out who he is dealing with and what their wants, needs and level of experience are.

A Smith 642 air weight 38 special revolver might be the perfect gun for one customer, while the next one might very well be served perfectly by a Glock.


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Old 05-30-2013, 08:02   #44
Arc Angel
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Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
And the hole gets deeper.
You know what I've noticed about Glock Talk? With only one or two outstanding exceptions, since I started here ALL of the really knowledgeable Senior GT Members - Many of them well recognized names in gun training and the shooting sports - have dropped off the board, and left Glock Talk to these interloping complete idiots who like to come in here, hang around for awhile, and make, 'waves' before they eventually disappear.

There are, literally, dozens of highly qualified gunmen whom I'm no longer able to exchange viewpoints and useful information with; and that's really a shame. So, who's left? Wise guys, anonymous cyberspace braggadocios, and those I would describe as essentially non-contributing, 'internet gun forum detritus'. I'll grant you, these guys invariably know how to be annoying, but genuinely useful? No, not at all.

(You know whom I'm talking about, right! OK, now I'm done with ya.)
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:05   #45
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When showing a Glock, I field strip it to show the internal saftey features and oiling points. Always.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:21   #46
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Glock pistols do not have a discretionary user-applied safety. THAT is a fact. This argument has been going on since I first joined this site, now, more than 10 years ago; and it shows no signs of going away anytime soon. I've, also, got more than 60 years of gun handling experience that have taught me it's impossible for any gunman to keep his finger off the trigger 100% of the time - Ain't never going to happen! This said: As long as a Glockeroo isn't standing on my right-hand side while he's using his, 'perfect' Glock I don't care how safe he thinks his Glock is. ('I just shot myself with my Glock' threads are a, 'hoot' - anyway!) The last pistol on Planet Earth that I would recommend to a woman who has little, or no, experience with firearms is a Glock. Personally I think the salesman gave her correct information; and I admire him for both his care and acumen.
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...(With me there's often, but not always, an extra step: I frequently need to perfectly grab the pistol's frame, AND rack the slide out of C-3 as the muzzle passes, 'low ready' and, 'drives' into the target's center.)...
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...If I'm in C-1 (not often) I, also, push the holster back to 2:30 before I sit down. When you're sitting behind a vehicle's steering wheel, there ain't nothing faster than, 'appendix carry'...
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The usual justification for C-1 carry is to be immediately ready to respond to an instantaneous CQB ambush. I'm going to remind that there is more than one way to do exactly that. For instance, two of my uncles survived warfare in the South Pacific during WWII. They were required to download their 1911's to only 5 rounds and NOT carry chambered. They returned home after the war. None ever complained about the manner in which they were ordered to use and carry their pistols. The Israeli Mossad is, also, legendary for going into combat while carrying and using their pistols from C-3...
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A pretensioned striker-fired pistol kept in C-1, and your family simply don't belong together!
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...I keep my EDC Glock in C-3; and I'm as fast with it as I've ever needed to be...the above might NOT be good advice for someone who is not as experienced with Glock pistols-in-particular, and firearms-in-general as I am.
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Me, (but the pistol is in C-3).
Maybe, like you, that salesman is carrying with an empty chamber.

I hope that that woman will get better advice, and good formal training, and follow it.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:35   #47
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A glock is not the best choice for a drawer gun. At leat thats what we used to call the pistol an unexperienced owner(not shooter) would buy to load and shove in a drawer hoping not to ever see it again.

Most of us have bought one of these(safe queen) guns frequently with the the original box of ammo sometimes minus one full load.(usually thrown away not shot off)

Revolvers or anything with a manual mechanical lever safety would be a better choice.

A glock is one of the best shooters guns in the world however not for non shooters.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:56   #48
ShallNotBeInfringed
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A Glock has a mystery about it, because of no external hammer, hidden ammo you cannot see, hidden ammo in the barrel, no external safety . Take a hammer handgun, and someone not real good with mechanical objects, and they can understand it easier. Add an external safety and it helps them to get along with the gun.

Revolvers are easy to train with, because there is no mystery in how they work. The long, hard trigger pull, helps prevent Glock leg and other negligent discharges.

Glocks are a good military, police and mechanical persons handgun because they get the concept, via extensive training or mechanical aptitude. A grocery mom may not care to invest of herself enough to really and trully figure out what safetys a Glock does have and how to properly address them so the gun reaches 100% potential under their ownership.

IMHO there are easier to train with firearms to present to the general public that has limited understanding of mechanical objects.

I own a Glock 20, over twenty years. Never an issue with it. Personally prefer an external safety that I add to my trigger blocking holster. My holster, and my Safe T Bloc gives me redundant safeguards against negligent discharges. For myself, that is the only way to own, train, and use a Glock to be as close to 100 % safe with the firearm as possible.

To my knowledge, no Glock owner that keeps their Glock holstered all the time, except to purposefully use the gun, that also faithfully uses the Safe T Bloc, has ever had a negligent discharge.

I teach handgun safety for the NRA, am a long lifetime member of NRA, and recently upgraded to Endowment. The three point safety regimen of the NRA is not always 100% effective because we do carry loaded guns with us. That leaves two safety declarations. Muzzle control is hard to do all the time. Our right leg is the the most abused by this rule, holstering. So that leaves just one safety mechanism. Keep your index finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Our hands go places our eyes cannot always follow, and our fingers sometimes get off track. One little slip, one involuntarily movement, and bang.

That is why I use and train the way I do.



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Old 05-30-2013, 09:17   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
You know what I've noticed about Glock Talk? With only one or two outstanding exceptions, since I started here ALL of the really knowledgeable Senior GT Members - Many of them well recognized names in gun training and the shooting sports - have dropped off the board, and left Glock Talk to these interloping complete idiots who like to come in here, hang around for awhile, and make, 'waves' before they eventually disappear.

(You know whom I'm talking about, right! OK, now I'm done with ya.)
So now the majority of the GT forum is made up of
"interloping complete idiots"??

You just get better and better.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:36   #50
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No, he said the whole forum is made up of idiots ("All the really knowledgeable sr. GT members left"). Get it right there, South Florida. Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
So now the majority of the GT forum is made up of
"interloping complete idiots"??

You just get better and better.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:09   #51
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Those were good beer commercials.

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Old 05-30-2013, 10:35   #52
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Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
No, he said the whole forum is made up of idiots ("All the really knowledgeable sr. GT members left"). Get it right there, South Florida. Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
Now THAT is funny.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:17   #53
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If the salesman would have only added the word EXTERNAL
there would be no issue; and all of the hyperbole, innuendo and insults would have been prevented.
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:30   #54
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Question deleted because of my oath not to participate in this thread, and concretefuzzynuts challenged the question I tried to slip in here as being contrary to my pledge. fuzzy was foolin around, but he was right.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 06-01-2013 at 07:16..
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Old 05-30-2013, 13:42   #55
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Are all of the folks who have had a negligent/accidental discharge with a Glock pistol idiots? How would you characterize their incidents?
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I hereby promise not to post any thoughts or opinions about the subject of Glock safety, so help me God.

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Old 05-30-2013, 14:03   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Guess you don't know; so let me be the first to enlighten you: Glock's so-called, 'drop safety' isn't really a drop safety. It does NOT prevent a Glock from firing if it is dropped. (Apparently you need to read more Glock Talk!) (Just saying!)
Then why does Glock call it such? Not a trick question. Doesn't it prevent loss of engagement due to a hard impact? Please explain. I'm willing to learn.
-Jack
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Old 05-30-2013, 14:04   #57
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Wow. First day on the forum and run across this thread. For people with a common interest it sure seems there is quite a bit of dissent. I guess that is Glock in a nutshell though. I have a G30 which I purchased nearly a decade ago. I have fired it only a few times. I bought it as I thought my EG Makarov was a bit too anemic for carry. I tried to find an IWB for the G30 that I liked to no avail. It felt like I was carrying a brick compared to the Mak. So, into the safe it went. I did all my original firearms training on range owned G19's. FWIW there had been AD/ND at that range with the G19's but also with Browning Hi-Powers (photos included) and a 1911. Let's face it - carrying loaded handguns does require training and even with training there is still the opportunity for accidents to occur. With the Mak decocked my double action trigger pull is heavy and I do have to disengage the safety to get to that double action pull. I train that action. I don't know if I will be able to do it under stress unless it happens. Who does??? Anyway, be nice guys, we're all on the same team here.
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Old 05-30-2013, 14:05   #58
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Ok, ok! Even though my post offered NO opinions, NO challenges, NO controversial thoughts, NOTHING on one side or the other of this topic, I have deleted it to preserve my honor.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 05-30-2013 at 14:24..
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Old 05-30-2013, 14:06   #59
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BTW I have a Russian Tokarev TT-33. It has a wonderful (sarcasm) half-cock safety. Wasn't it Tokarev himself who said "What safety? It's a gun!"
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Old 05-30-2013, 14:18   #60
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What about the p250? Would that have been a better choice as it has no external safety either.
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