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Old 06-08-2013, 19:35   #101
unit1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intecooler View Post
I'm not defending anyone. Seems this situation has been handled, although the suspect brass was what I view to be blamed rather than the company assembling it. I have had a few ammo mishaps myself one involving brass. Since it was Armscor ammo and Armscor brass Armscor was totally at fault. Heck, don't buy any of them and just handload your own. Nothing can ever go wrong then!
It seems to me you're wishing your personal views of legal responsibility should substitute for what the law actually covers.

I was once dismissed from a jury for stating that I didn't think all doctors in a medical practice should be held responsible for the malpractice of a couple of the members. The judge queried me before all the entire courtroom and I again stated my belief. The judge then instructed me on what the law stated and asked me if I understood the law, I told him I didn't agree, and he said he was bound by the law and summarily dismissed me from that jury.

We are all entitled to our individual conscience but the legal system has defined guidelines it must follow.
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Old 06-08-2013, 19:47   #102
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Doesn't matter what any of us think really. Hope those with issues get whatever closure they need on them. I have stated what I knew about the ammo in question best I could and I will butt out of the OP's thread. Good luck!
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Old 06-08-2013, 19:56   #103
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Originally Posted by Sierra9 View Post
This particular brass has their name on it. So it's hard to know who made it. In the past I've seen them use Starline.

I have a G20 Glock barrel that must be at the max spec for case wiggle in the chamber. It is enough that it is hard to size the case back to spec. I have never had case separation or split from the barrel. I have several after market barrels that have much tighter chambers and take a little more blue dot without base expansion.

Finding max load in pistols takes some work and thought. If you have several makes of barrels you can end up with several different max loads or you have to settle for one max load that works in all your barrels.
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Old 06-08-2013, 23:14   #104
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Originally Posted by 4949shooter View Post
The Winchester 10mm ammo issues are few and far in between. How many 10mm Winchester KB's have we heard of besides Canyon Man's? I personally have heard of none.

I am sure they are out there but there aren't many that we have heard of, in other words, there aren't many. This is especially telling when you consider the huge amount of Winchester 10mm Silvertip that is sold in stores, on line, and has been out there available to 10mm shooters for decades.


Thats right amigo, and I got to say that there was a tad more to my KB than just the ammo (we think).

I have hand loaded my own for almost 45 years now. I shoot mostly hard cast and have always lived where HC bullets worked best for my life style, and work and needs and hunting.

Said all that to toss in, I am NOT afraid of WW silvertips, and would still shoot them if the need arose. But Truth be told, I do trust my hand loads far more than factory stuff, and waaay more than ma and pa run outfits.

Bottom line: Any ammo can go at any time in any type gun. Does it happen every five minutes? Nope ! But it can happen.

Even a handload can go south given something carless was done. I must admit, I have never one time in all these years had a bad hand load (of my own loading that is) and actually, 'other than' the WW ST that went KB on me, I don't recall in the tens of hundreds of thousands of rounds I've shot since I was 10 years old, of even 'factory stuff' ever having a problem.

Pretty dang good record "for me," anyway. Again, anything can blow, BUT, I place FAR more stock in good reputable factory ammo, than in those so called "Boutique" ma pa outfits raving how "hot " their ammo is, and most of it not even tested "properly." I got no use for that stuff.




Good word 4949shooter !




Stay safe pard !






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Old 06-08-2013, 23:25   #105
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Originally Posted by intecooler View Post
Is the Solo a small length 1911? If so, I watched a guy have fits with a .45ACP version that had already been sent back twice at my local range.

Short slide guns have to really be set up for the high slide velocity. It's much tougher controlling how quickly it moves.
Not realy, it's a matter of getting the recoil spring right. The baby Glocks work fine, just more ammo sensitive. My stock 1911 OM runs 100% w/ any ammo I have shot & that is quite a wide swath. If you are running hot loads in any semiauto, your recoil springs better be up to the task.
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Last edited by fredj338; 06-08-2013 at 23:34..
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Old 06-08-2013, 23:33   #106
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Originally Posted by intecooler View Post
I'm not defending anyone. Seems this situation has been handled, although the suspect brass was what I view to be blamed rather than the company assembling it. I have had a few ammo mishaps myself one involving brass. Since it was Armscor ammo and Armscor brass Armscor was totally at fault. Heck, don't buy any of them and just handload your own. Nothing can ever go wrong then!
What part of liabilty do you NOT get? I don't care why the brass failed, it failed with THEIR ammo. It's up to the manuf to make sure the components are up to spec & assembled properly. Pretty frickin simple stuff. It's why you carry liability insurance, but get it wrong often enough, that won't keep your business going long because no one in their right mind makes ammo w/o liability ins. Proper testing & lot ID would have caught this sooner than later, bad brass or not. Even a novice reloader understands when you get a new lot of components in, you have to retest your loads to make sure nothing changed. Sounds like they missed that step. I hope they get it sorted out, I like to see guys stay in business.
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Last edited by fredj338; 06-08-2013 at 23:37..
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Old 06-08-2013, 23:34   #107
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Originally Posted by 4949shooter View Post
I like those numbers.

CanyonMan did a thread a while ago on his Winchester KB here, prior to your membership at Glocktalk. I know he is a bit busy at home, but if you ask him I am sure he will repost it for you when he gets the time.

I can tell you that Winchester replaced his gun, but he could give you the details.


You got the "he is a bit busy" right ! haha !

Well, time to 'sift through' everything and find that old post, I ain't got at present. Let me just breifly say, that there was an old used barrel I bought from someone on the cheap, (why i don't know) and I had no clue of its history (what had been fired through it and 'how loaded').

That being said, leaving out a 'real long story here....' I personally suspect there was some metal fatigue in that chamber area, due to someone trying to really hot rod their rounds and that without wisdom or sense of any kind. (long story as I said).

So, it was either time for it to bite the dust and it did, OR, the WW ST round was a double charge ! OR Both !

There was NO brass left in the chamber, and the forensic check by WW could not actually determine exactly what the cause was.

They did indeed replace the G20SF with a brand new one from Glock directly. They also picked up an eye exam bill for me.

I was not happy with them for a while I must admit. But upon reflection of the whole senerio, I really do not fully know who, or what to blame, in MY particular case here, because of that stinking very old used barrel.

If someone had really abused the heck out of it with 'nuclear loads' trying to do what so many try to do but can't, then I do suspect the barrel, which may have been fatigued in the chamber area as I said, or again, was it WW ST. Again,


That is the non detailed real short version, and perhaps it will satisfy the Curiosity ! haha.


Right now, I'm "fatigued." So there ya go !




Buenos Noches' amigo's !













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Old 06-09-2013, 00:03   #108
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
I think that gun blew up from some Winchester ammo. It is one of the reason why CanyonMan loads all his own ammo now.

Well my good friend, I've actually been hand loading my own for almost 45 years ! ha. But, your 'also correct', in the fact that I load my own now, 'even more than ever' ! haha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by intecooler
Banana!
What's the story on that one? Plugged barrel


intecooler

Man as I just placed in another post here somewhere. I cannot say for 100% certain it was the WW cartridge that blew that G20, or whether is was a bad(used) barrel I had in it. I just don't know.

The barrel was NOT plugged !

I am not afraid of good quality factory ammo, but I will NOT use ammo from folks like UW and some others, that I suspect are not properly tested, and trying to raise the bar on the word "HOT."

I'm not cutting them down. I am however saying, that if they are NOT conducting regular inspections and running various test on their loads and components, then I would not reccomend them.

The "need for speed" in this day and age truly puzzles me. I shoot big bore everything. I own small bore most everything as well. I have loaded for them all, most my life.

I just don't see the 'speed need' in most of my calibers, of 40cal on up.

Revolver or semi auto, i shoot heavy for caliber, and desire penetration over expantion, which in the real world we don't get much of any way in my experiences, and that is ONE reason I use 99% Hard Cast bullets on the ranch and for hunting.



Don't really have a jumping off place here, or know what your looking for exactly pard, "intecooler". But perhaps this will help some, or you can go back several post and read my short version of the KB.


I am one tired hombre at present, so adios amigo's.


Later dkf !







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Old 06-09-2013, 03:57   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
You got the "he is a bit busy" right ! haha !

Well, time to 'sift through' everything and find that old post, I ain't got at present. Let me just breifly say, that there was an old used barrel I bought from someone on the cheap, (why i don't know) and I had no clue of its history (what had been fired through it and 'how loaded').

That being said, leaving out a 'real long story here....' I personally suspect there was some metal fatigue in that chamber area, due to someone trying to really hot rod their rounds and that without wisdom or sense of any kind. (long story as I said).

So, it was either time for it to bite the dust and it did, OR, the WW ST round was a double charge ! OR Both !

There was NO brass left in the chamber, and the forensic check by WW could not actually determine exactly what the cause was.

They did indeed replace the G20SF with a brand new one from Glock directly. They also picked up an eye exam bill for me.

I was not happy with them for a while I must admit. But upon reflection of the whole senerio, I really do not fully know who, or what to blame, in MY particular case here, because of that stinking very old used barrel.

If someone had really abused the heck out of it with 'nuclear loads' trying to do what so many try to do but can't, then I do suspect the barrel, which may have been fatigued in the chamber area as I said, or again, was it WW ST. Again,


That is the non detailed real short version, and perhaps it will satisfy the Curiosity ! haha.


Right now, I'm "fatigued." So there ya go !




Buenos Noches' amigo's !



CanyonMan
Thanks for weighing in, Canyon Man! It's always good to hear from you.

Stay safe, my Brother.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:18   #110
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When did you purchase the ammunition? Where did you purchase the ammunition? Have you notified Underwood of the serious problem? Since your pistol is new you may have an out of spec barrel, the brass is defective, over-charge, over tight crimp or bullet seat depth problem. I have recently seen a brand new 45 ACP Remington case split from the case mouth to the cartridge head so during this period of over production there will be more defective ammunition then normal. I will be testing some 10 mm 200 gr XTP JHP Underwood ammunition (purchased in May) in the next week so I will post the results soon.
I would never use a Glock Barrel for high velocity 10mm ammo. I had too many smileys with my G-20. Went to a Barsto barrel and never had any more case problems.
My Glock barrel is a paper weight and it was the second factory barrel to smile with factory ammo.
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