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Old 08-17-2013, 13:23   #1
VICARA
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Citadel or RIA Tactical

Good day mga ka-BOGs,

It’s been awhile since my last visit so…’musta na po, GREETINGS sa lahat from Cali.

Besides the thread title, I also have a rifle question but let me start with the 1911 query. As my drill prior to a purchase, I always make it a point to visit local stores to eyeball the item. And so I did. My plan is to just buy a 1911 frame to mate with my Marvel .22 kit but found out, hindi pala puwede dito sa Cali ang frame lang. Yup, only in Cali.

So anyway, suggestions on the least expensive complete pistol are the above mentioned: Citadel and a RIA Tac. Reviews of both are a plenty but I still like to hear from my ka-BOGs, I bet you guys know more about them as they are made in Phil. Yes, I know the RIAs are from Phil but it’s my first time to hear the Citadel.

Citadel:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Citad...ns/1324224.uts

RIA:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411539799

I was quoted $590 for the Citadel and $520 for the RIA. All local shops.
Any comment/feedback is highly appreciated.

AS for the rifle question, anybody shooting a bolt-action in .223? It’s been a long time it’s on my bucket list and I’m that close to pulling the trigger (figuratively ) but so much options, nakakahilo. Items on my list are TiKKA T3 Tactical or Varmint, Savage Axis, Mossberg MVP, Winchester 70. I opted .223 so to share ammo with my AR. Shall I go for a .308 instead of a .223 for a bolt-action?
Any feedback/suggestions is also appreciated.

Thank you po in advance. Its nice to be back!
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Old 08-17-2013, 21:19   #2
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Citadel is a rebadge Armscor just like RIA.

For bolt action rifle.

If Tikka, I would rather get a Tikka T3 Sporter if budget is not a problem. Tikka 223 rifles have 1/8 barrel twist, advantage if you like shooting heavier bullets more than 69 grains.

Tikka T3 Sporter
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If Savage, I would rather get a Savage-Stevens. Then upgrade the barrel, stock and trigger as the budget permits. Axis model I believe is not easy to upgrade.

AICS for Savage (compatible with Stevens model but not Axis)
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Advantage of Mossberg MVP is it can use AR15 magazines and chamber is 5.56/223.

Don't know anything about Winchester 70.

Take a look at CZ 527 Varmint too.

Last edited by ess45; 08-17-2013 at 21:27..
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Old 08-17-2013, 21:52   #3
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as for 1911,s , does armscor sell the same quality guns dito as sa states?
Dito sa pinas no problem buying any brand kasi mura lang gunsmith and most people have their 1911's tuned anyway kahit di kailangan

Not so sa states , mahal ang gunsmith
I'd go w/c ever gun has the better aftersales service at maganda fit at finish ng baril
ang dali naman kasi paandarin ng 1911
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Old 08-18-2013, 14:50   #4
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thanks ess for chiming in. I might have to pass on the sporter Tikka. besides its obscene price tag (around $2K?) , its also nowhere to be found in my area. Also, I like my rifle to be just plain old black. and at least 24" barrel... so I'm going for a Varmint...I just got off the phone with Cabela's thinking of just taking the 4-hr drive to pick one up but alas, no Varmint or Super Varmint on stock.
heto sana:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Tikka...le/1143628.uts

Also, I figured the $$ difference will get me a nice Nikon or Zeiss glass or whatever as long as its cheaper than NF. Then hopefully within a year or so of saving coins, I can upgrade to Manners stock.
____
I read that the Citadel has a diff importer but both from Armscor. I'm heading now to Target Master to DROS the Citadel which is my choice just because its almost look-alike my Kimber...Seriously, they should be on the same league. Will update later if its a go...

ess45, thanks, I might have to ask more rifle questions in the coming days...i.e. homegrown recipe for a .223, scope, stock, tips on starting on long-range, etc.
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Old 08-18-2013, 14:51   #5
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ess45..may AICS ba na puwede sa Tikka?
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Old 08-18-2013, 18:37   #6
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Tikka T3 sporter is between $1,400-1,500.
That Tikka Varmint price is good.

For 223 data, I just follow the powder manufacturers data.
Choice of stock is a personal thing.
BTW, I'm not a long range shooter.


Quote:
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ess45..may AICS ba na puwede sa Tikka?
None that I know. But I think I read somewhere that it is or will be available in UK.
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Old 08-18-2013, 18:42   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
as for 1911,s , does armscor sell the same quality guns dito as sa states?
Dito sa pinas no problem buying any brand kasi mura lang gunsmith and most people have their 1911's tuned anyway kahit di kailangan

Not so sa states , mahal ang gunsmith
I'd go w/c ever gun has the better aftersales service at maganda fit at finish ng baril
ang dali naman kasi paandarin ng 1911
I think the quality is the same.

All Armscor products here (RIA, Citadel, High Standard, etc) are covered by Armscor. I think Armscor customer service here is better than in RP.
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Old 08-18-2013, 22:37   #8
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You may also want to take a look at the ATI (American Tactical Imports) 1911s. Made by SAM in Cebu.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:30   #9
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Stock CZ 527 Varmint
Using Nosler 69gr HPBT bulk bullet, 23gr IMR 4064 OAL 2.255". Winchester brass. 100 yards.
No butt support.


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The shooter may not be capable of sub MOA but the rifle is.

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Old 08-20-2013, 15:21   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
as for 1911,s , does armscor sell the same quality guns dito as sa states?
In my personal experience, no.
Quality control is tighter on exports.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:37   #11
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So can one expect a better quality RIA/ Armscor when purchased overseas? Is that true?
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Old 08-21-2013, 16:38   #12
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Quote:
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So can one expect a better quality RIA/ Armscor when purchased overseas? Is that true?
Although my experience is from some years back, the state of my NIB Practical 45 Duotone suggested it had been assembled from parts out of culls bins. The slide stop was from a GI, not the extended slidestop of a Practical... and everything was sporting some rust, to the extent of pitting even the slide exterior, even though the pistol's green (Armscor) inspection card was dated just a few weeks prior.

I've heard of US-unit Armscor barrels being pitted inside, but this is an artefact of manufacturing technology and does not seem to affect actual performance. The rest of my Armscor's problems are unheard of in US units. The pre and post sales service is also very different. Even the unit price can be lower in the US than home in the Philippines!

This may all tie in to why local gun manufacturers didn't fight harder against the recent and detrimental changes to PH gun law: they may care more about the US market and US gunowners.


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Also my bad ...
I forgot to welcome Vic back!
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Old 08-23-2013, 17:56   #13
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thanks horge...yup, matagal din akong hindi nakadalaw dito.

I have to put on hold my 1911 acquisition as my car needs some TLC. I got this VSA error light came up with an exclamation point on my dashboard and for a brief seconds my steering got locked while turning! Brought to Acura service and what do you know, I have to spend all my toy money for the repair. Dami daw papalitan so its an effin' bummer... My MDX is hitting 9 years already so pagod na siguro 'to.
for a quickie fix maka shoot lang ng .22, , I will temporarily mate the Marvel with my Kimber:
Band of Glockers
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Also the Tikka plan has to be revised, I instead opted for a cheaper setup. Will DROS Tue a blank lower from Templar Armament then just built it up as $$ becomes available. Hopefully in 6-8 months, will pair a 24" varmint upper from White Oak Armament (too bad its 6-8 months turnaround)
heto siya:
Band of Glockers

Then a Harris bipod and finally the scope.

so there it is, my derailed project!
-------------
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Old 08-24-2013, 13:26   #14
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Quote:
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...as $$ becomes available.
I feel your pain.
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Old 08-29-2013, 23:05   #15
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finally DROS-ed a blank lower. here it is waiting for internal guts which may take awhile to show up as I have not yet decided if I go single of 2-stage trigger.
I'm still trying to figure out the specific mechanical difference between a single stage vs two stage trigger assembly. $$ difference is substantial and since this is on a tight budget, I'm not sure if its really worth it.

Band of Glockers
----
last time i stopped by the gun store, they have the RIA Tac back on stock. Mukhang mabenta talaga; assembled ba sa Pinas mga RIA? or exported as parts then built them here in Pahrump, NV?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:58   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VICARA View Post
thanks horge...yup, matagal din akong hindi nakadalaw dito.

I have to put on hold my 1911 acquisition as my car needs some TLC. I got this VSA error light came up with an exclamation point on my dashboard and for a brief seconds my steering got locked while turning! Brought to Acura service and what do you know, I have to spend all my toy money for the repair. Dami daw papalitan so its an effin' bummer... My MDX is hitting 9 years already so pagod na siguro 'to.
for a quickie fix maka shoot lang ng .22, , I will temporarily mate the Marvel with my Kimber:
Band of Glockers
Band of Glockers

Also the Tikka plan has to be revised, I instead opted for a cheaper setup. Will DROS Tue a blank lower from Templar Armament then just built it up as $$ becomes available. Hopefully in 6-8 months, will pair a 24" varmint upper from White Oak Armament (too bad its 6-8 months turnaround)
heto siya:
Band of Glockers

Then a Harris bipod and finally the scope.

so there it is, my derailed project!
-------------
what kind/brand of handguard is that?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:59   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VICARA View Post
finally DROS-ed a blank lower. here it is waiting for internal guts which may take awhile to show up as I have not yet decided if I go single of 2-stage trigger.
I'm still trying to figure out the specific mechanical difference between a single stage vs two stage trigger assembly. $$ difference is substantial and since this is on a tight budget, I'm not sure if its really worth it.

Band of Glockers
----
last time i stopped by the gun store, they have the RIA Tac back on stock. Mukhang mabenta talaga; assembled ba sa Pinas mga RIA? or exported as parts then built them here in Pahrump, NV?
Check out the timney single stage
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:34   #18
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Kamusta na Vic. Bagong project, hindi na ba nagkakaubusan dyan?
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Old 09-03-2013, 16:51   #19
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edtf, that's a 24" varmint upper from White Oak Armament. Last time I called they have a 6-8 months turnaround time so I'm looking for an alternative...but they might cut down their back orders in the coming months so I'll try again in a few months. Blame this on the still ongoing gun/ammo panic buying
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Old 09-03-2013, 17:03   #20
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hey Paul, long time no hear. nasa Pinas ka na ba?
its still a mess here. Cali is still in the red, mid-20B deficit, unemployment still one of the highest in the nation...and just for the last 3 months, i'm in the prowl for a new job after my extended medical leave. IT field is a b**ch to get back into even in the silicon valley.

but the gun/ammo sector is flourishing as usual...walang slowdown.

so ano na? musta na?
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Old 09-03-2013, 18:10   #21
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Back here for good and settling in again after a very long vacation there. Dito maraming job opportunites... Umuwi ka na lang hahaha
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Old 09-05-2013, 16:53   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VICARA View Post
edtf, that's a 24" varmint upper from White Oak Armament. Last time I called they have a 6-8 months turnaround time so I'm looking for an alternative...but they might cut down their back orders in the coming months so I'll try again in a few months. Blame this on the still ongoing gun/ammo panic buying
I love the handguard. I am not a fan of quad rails or whatever rails. I like mine simple and light. NICE!
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