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Old 10-28-2013, 23:28   #1
TBO
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2 arrested at Texas Capitol gun-rights rally

http://www.keyetv.com/news/features/...ed-14034.shtml

http://www.mywesttexas.com/statenati...a4bcf887a.html

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local...ghts-rally.ece

Carry Issues
Last week’s “Come and Take It San Antonio!” rally at the Alamo was intended to draw attention to Texans’ right to carry long arms publicly so long as they don’t do it in a menacing manner.
Lisa Krantz / San Antonio Express-New
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?

Last edited by TBO; 10-28-2013 at 23:32..
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:31   #2
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Once more, OCers trying 6to start a fight where non exists and being much more likely to harm gun owners than to help them. Makes you wonder how many of them are undercover agitators for the anti-gun groups. Sort of like the police/feds putting fake hippies into the protests in the 60's to stir ^&%$ up.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:02   #3
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I don't look at them as OC'ers, they are Activist Zealot OC'ers.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:06   #4
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Once more, OCers trying 6to start a fight where non exists and being much more likely to harm gun owners than to help them. Makes you wonder how many of them are undercover agitators for the anti-gun groups. Sort of like the police/feds putting fake hippies into the protests in the 60's to stir ^&%$ up.
That is one way to look at it. Perhaps another way to view it is the "face your fears" principal. the main reason behind the problem of open carry is the sensitivity that the uninformed feel when they see a gun. Remove the sensitivity, and the open carrying of long arms (or any arms) will be as common place as say ...

1. women driving cars
2. abolishment of segregation
3. co-ed higher education
4. women voting
5. women attending classes at The Citadel
6. women in combat

the point here is that those things were previously taboo and worthy of the gasps and astonishment that were elicited at the mere thought of them taking place. But once the sensitivity was removed which, granted took some time... then they became as common place as anything else. Remember the little girl in Alabama that wanted to go to school? She was black and the school was white. It was a controversy that stirred up a storm! But she got to go to school. Today, we look back and wonder at how naive society was as a whole. I think that's the goal being sought with these demonstrations.

With the protest at the Alamo, people saw what they were expecting to see... people walking around armed with rifles, and carrying them in a non threatening manner and no one lost their minds over it. These demonstrations are designed with that in mind.. to convey to the people that there is no stigma... that it's perfectly ok. I don't believe that all of these demonstrations are designed to stir ***** up (though I do know that some are). Sometimes the benefit of the doubt is powerful medicine.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:57   #5
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I wonder how much public support women voting had versus how much public support a guy carrying a rifle openly has.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:14   #6
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Originally Posted by Lord View Post
That is one way to look at it. Perhaps another way to view it is the "face your fears" principal. the main reason behind the problem of open carry is the sensitivity that the uninformed feel when they see a gun. Remove the sensitivity, and the open carrying of long arms (or any arms) will be as common place as say ...

1. women driving cars
2. abolishment of segregation
3. co-ed higher education
4. women voting
5. women attending classes at The Citadel
6. women in combat
The problem with your example is the same as the problem the OCers have - you don't understand the compexity of the process that made those things acceptable, so you oversimplify to simple, disorganized public demonstrations, and miss the point. You guys know how to draw attention, but you are only taking 1 step of a process that requires many steps, so you will cause the process to fail.

I took a history class once, that covered the civil rights movement, it was pretty interesting. If the OCers took it, and understood it, they wouldn't be doing what they are doing. MLK did a LOT more than just public demonstrations and there's a good reason why MLK is still the hero of civil rights, while Malcolm X is just a former drug dealer who made a few bucks until his own people killed him.
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Old 10-29-2013, 13:27   #7
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
The problem with your example is the same as the problem the OCers have - you don't understand the compexity of the process that made those things acceptable, so you oversimplify to simple, disorganized public demonstrations, and miss the point. You guys know how to draw attention, but you are only taking 1 step of a process that requires many steps, so you will cause the process to fail.

I took a history class once, that covered the civil rights movement, it was pretty interesting. If the OCers took it, and understood it, they wouldn't be doing what they are doing. MLK did a LOT more than just public demonstrations and there's a good reason why MLK is still the hero of civil rights, while Malcolm X is just a former drug dealer who made a few bucks until his own people killed him.
Fair enough. While they may not all fall into perfect examples, consider that a woman's right to vote came with heavy opposition from "system" and relied heavily upon women demonstrating and protesting in the streets. The same with the Alabama school incident. Politicians in power at that time even took stands that would be illegal by today's standards to prevent desegregation. Even MLK had to start somewhere, and many times it's the protests that start the necessary ball rolling to more diplomatic solutions.

If you don't stand for your rights, you will lose them. Look at England, Australia, Syria, Germany, China, Cambodia, North Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan....

All countries that took away rights, and eventually... well you know the rest.

While you may not agree with a peaceful protest because you think the methods are wrong based on the message that they try to send, consider the women who marched and demonstrated in the streets for the right to vote.

Consider the recent Colorado recalls. Threats were made. They were followed up on. Two politicians were fired for failing to represent "We the People". They deserved it.

You cannot have activism without activists. Sometimes, it may seem as madness; and sometimes the method suits the madness.

Oh, one other thing. I'm not a member of OCT. I wasn't at the demonstration here in San Antonio. (wish I could have been but wasn't) in TX it's not illegal to open carry a long arm, but it doesn't stop the uninformed from calling the police anyway.
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Old 10-29-2013, 19:53   #8
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...there's a good reason why MLK is still the hero of civil rights, while Malcolm X is just a former drug dealer who made a few bucks until his own people killed him.
Quoted because that is quote-worthy.
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Old 10-29-2013, 21:01   #9
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Didn't MLK Jr's people kill him too?


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Old 10-29-2013, 21:03   #10
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Quote:
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I wonder how much public support women voting had versus how much public support a guy carrying a rifle openly has.
Now that they got to vote, they voted for the antigun libtards.

Hooray!!!


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Old 10-29-2013, 23:59   #11
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Ah you do know BP pistols are not regulated as firearms right? You can order one throught the mail as an 18 year old without a NICS. I had a DPS trooper stop me while out hunting once - I was OCing a BP pistol he was all upset I was OCing until he found out it was a BP. TX law doesn't consider them a firearm.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:57   #12
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Well, I guess now all law enforcement officers should start carrying their long guns all the time, too.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:40   #13
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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
Bren
Ah you do know BP pistols are not regulated as firearms right? You can order one throught the mail as an 18 year old without a NICS. I had a DPS trooper stop me while out hunting once - I was OCing a BP pistol he was all upset I was OCing until he found out it was a BP. TX law doesn't consider them a firearm.
Maybe the officers didn't know they were pre-1899 BP, since they were holstered. Also, how can you tell it's pre-1899? Do they have some type of documentation?

The officers aren't going to believe or listen to the the other protesters yelling out the statute, until they get the situation under control. Which in this case would be to get them in handcuffs and away from the scene to try and diffuse the situation.

Here is a thought, when asked to leave, why didn't they comply? I'm sure an officer would have followed, or they could have asked one to follow them to a quieter area, to show the officer see it's a BP pistol. Once that's established, they could also show them a copy of the law. In all likelihood, it would have been resolved and they would have been able to go back to the rally.

I get it, that TX law doesn't recognize pre-1899 BP pistols as firearms, but, why were they carrying them at a rally for long gun open carry? IMO, they were trying to draw attention and create a scene. That doesn't help, especially with a liberal media that will spin the story to make the guns look bad.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:00   #14
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Pretty easy to see in an open holster- you can look and see the percussion caps on the EXPOSED end of the cylinder! Or maybe just ask a simple question? I didn't see those folks behaving in a manor that warrented the manhandling they got. And once they determined that it was if fact a BP pistol why did they go ahead with the arrest?
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:39   #15
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MLK did a LOT more than just public demonstrations and there's a good reason why MLK is still the hero of civil rights, while Malcolm X is just a former drug dealer who made a few bucks until his own people killed him.
so profoundly simple that it is missed by even the lowest common denominators.
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Old 10-30-2013, 13:10   #16
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Ignored as well.

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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-30-2013, 13:17   #17
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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
eaglefrq
Pretty easy to see in an open holster- you can look and see the percussion caps on the EXPOSED end of the cylinder! Or maybe just ask a simple question? I didn't see those folks behaving in a manor that warrented the manhandling they got. And once they determined that it was if fact a BP pistol why did they go ahead with the arrest?
The cops may have asked, but that was edited out. The person may have answered, but that was edited out. From the video, the one guy (green shirt) is partially sitting on the holster, making it difficult to see the pistol.

They didn't get manhandled. Look at 00:47, when they tried to handcuff him, he laid down on his left side in a semi-fetal position with his left arm tucked under his head/neck area. The officers had to pull his right arm and legs straight to roll him on his stomach. And, he still had his left arm tucked under his head/neck, so they had to pull that arm out also. Then, he refused to walk, so two officers supported him by his arms and carried him while he let his feet drag. That way it looked like they were using excessive force.

They got arrested because their actions caused a disturbance at the event.

According to the statement released by the PD, they were asked to leave and refused. Again, if they had left and asked an officer to accompany them to a quieter area away from the crowd, showed them the weapons and explained everything I'm pretty sure it would have been resolved with no fuss.

Again, how come they decided to OC pistols (which is illegal) in TX to a rally for OC long rifles. I understand they are allegedly pre-1899, but the officers don't know that until they investigate. I don't know anything about BP pistols, but were BP pistols made after 1899? If so, how does the average person know they difference?
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Old 10-30-2013, 16:13   #18
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eaglefrq
Pretty easy to see in an open holster- you can look and see the percussion caps on the EXPOSED end of the cylinder! Or maybe just ask a simple question? I didn't see those folks behaving in a manor that warrented the manhandling they got. And once they determined that it was if fact a BP pistol why did they go ahead with the arrest?
Why do you think they were arrested on a weapons charge?
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Old 10-30-2013, 17:31   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
eaglefrq
Pretty easy to see in an open holster- you can look and see the percussion caps on the EXPOSED end of the cylinder! Or maybe just ask a simple question? I didn't see those folks behaving in a manor that warrented the manhandling they got. And once they determined that it was if fact a BP pistol why did they go ahead with the arrest?
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Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
Why do you think they were arrested on a weapons charge?
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Originally Posted by eaglefrq View Post
They got arrested because their actions caused a disturbance at the event.
Gunnut, again, you didn't read the articles, did you?
Quote:
2 arrested at Texas Capitol gun-rights rally
Quote:
The two men were arrested for criminal trespass and have refused to identify themselves to authorities, Department of Public Safety spokesman Tom Vinger said.
Quote:
2 arrested at Texas Capitol gun-rights rally
Quote:
The two men were arrested for criminal trespass and have refused to identify themselves to authorities, Department of Public Safety spokesman Tom Vinger said.

“The men were openly carrying suspected deadly weapons and were given the opportunity to leave the area, but refused,” Vinger wrote in an email. He said no other information about the arrest was available.
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Old 10-30-2013, 19:10   #20
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As people who are not committed one way or another see this or read about this I wonder if it helps convince them or turns them away from gun rights.
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