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Old 02-16-2014, 19:32   #41
Laslo
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Originally Posted by Guss View Post
Rule by a rich aristocracy??? Seems like my ancestors fought a revolution about that.

Well said.
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Old 02-16-2014, 20:03   #42
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anyone read the article besides the headline? the generalized basis behind the headline is "skin in the game." interpolate however you wish...
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Old 02-16-2014, 23:20   #43
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If you make under $1 million and are male--no federal voting rights.
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Old 02-16-2014, 23:40   #44
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I agree 100% with the concept of votes based on the amount of taxes paid but I think it should be based on your total compensation to or from all forms of government. Local, state, and federal taxes all together added up should determine your votes, MINUS of course ALL OF THE INCOME YOU DERIVED FROM ALL GOVERNMENT SOURCES.

If you are a NET supporter of the government then you get that number of votes. If you are a NET beneficiary from government then you get NO vote on any thing and also are NOT eligible to hold any elected position. Welfare, WIC, farm subsidies, government employees, contractors, bail outs... yer out. If you gain more financially from government than you pay then you don't get to vote your self jobs, raises, or benefits to the people who pay or hire you.

Last edited by Jack Ryan; 02-16-2014 at 23:47..
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Old 02-17-2014, 00:31   #45
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Sure ya DUE.
So do you enjoy ignorance?
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Old 02-17-2014, 00:40   #46
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Novel idea...
Reminds me of the ABC special where they interviewed some billionaire who explained why rich people should pay NO TAXES. They do "smarter" things with money so they should be able to keep all of it.

It goes without saying they are smarter than everybody else so they should get more votes.

In fact, the vote counter machines should have sensors to let them ignore votes cast by the inferior people. We have to let them keep the illusion of voting so they won't rise up in revolt, but the votes shouldn't actually count.

Last edited by Alizard; 02-17-2014 at 00:41..
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Old 02-17-2014, 00:51   #47
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Now that the whole voting process is electronically counted, it is easily corrupted/hacked/manipulated so really, all this is rather moot...more an exercise in semantics.

The winners and losers of the big elections are bought and paid for long before any of us go to the polls.
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Old 02-17-2014, 00:55   #48
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Originally Posted by akroguy View Post
Now that the whole voting process is electronically counted, it is easily corrupted/hacked/manipulated so really, all this is rather moot...more an exercise in semantics.

The winners and losers of the big elections are bought and paid for long before any of us go to the polls.
Then why did Karl Rove and the gang get that horrible shock at the last election?
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:18   #49
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He's not "in the loop".

The decisions are made outside DC.
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:06   #50
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I don't walk around calling myself anything. Originally the federal government couldn't abuse it's power by suppressing the vote. The states ran voter eligibility, you know, "power" granted to the states rather than the federal. Then "we" gave the federal government the power to force the states to allow practically universal suffrage, along with popularly elected senators and individual federal income taxes. How'd that prohibition thing work out? Now the Feds are pushing to force the states to allow felons to vote. If my objection to that kind of federal power abuse to interfere with federalism makes me sound like a small government conservative, it may just be coincidence.
So you disagree with a system that allows all non-felon citizens of voting age to vote? You think allowing the government to start choosing who can vote on a whim is going to turn out great? Believing that Kablam could pick his magic set of parameters and they'd stay in place forever without being changed and manipulated is incredibly myopic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by akroguy View Post
Now that the whole voting process is electronically counted, it is easily corrupted/hacked/manipulated so really, all this is rather moot...more an exercise in semantics.

The winners and losers of the big elections are bought and paid for long before any of us go to the polls.
You've seen too many movies.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:23   #51
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How many of you read the entire article? I mean the one linked to in my original post. Did you click on the link?

Perhaps you remember his Letter-to-the-Editor in The Wall Street Journal - Progressive Kristallnacht Coming?? I believe there is a thread here somewhere discussing it. He did say:
Quote:
“I used that terrible word..."
Quote:
“I used that terrible word — ‘Kristallnacht,’ ” he said, “which I should never have used.”

The comparison — that America’s wealthy class was being persecuted like Jews in the holocaust — set off a national flash of indignation. In a perfect storm of modern media, the letter went viral — and beyond.

“It was,” Perkins said, “the most read letter in the history of the Wall Street Journal.”
Back to this event...

In another report of the evening...
Quote:
Tom Perkins still thinks the rich are persecuted
Quote:
And, just as everyone was thinking that Perkins was a tiny bit off his rocker, he suggested that he had the solution to America’s problems. In order to vote, he proposed, everyone should have to have paid at least $1 in taxes.

“And those who have paid a million dollars in taxes,” he continued, “should have a million votes.”

In a press session afterward, he was asked whether he was really serious about that.

“Of course not,” he said. “I intended to be outrageous and I was.”
Another version of the statement is a bit different...
Quote:
Tom Perkins: Taxes will lead to 'economic extinction' of the 1%
Quote:
When challenged to say, in 60 seconds, how he would change the world, Perkins made a playfully controversial response. He suggested that, in the tradition of Thomas Jefferson's voting land owners and Margaret Thatcher's idea of only allowing taxpayers to vote, "The Tom Perkins system is: You don't get the vote if you don't pay a dollar in taxes. But what I really think is it should be like a corporation. You pay a million dollars, you get a million votes. How's that?" To which the audience responded with laughter. Perkins later said offstage that what he meant was that, with 50% of registered U.S. voters not paying taxes, "we got ourselves into a mess."
See, little things get left out of some reports. The original story, in Post #1, was reported by NBC News. Surprised they edited his comment?

The Commonwealth Club event was an interview format. Fortune's Adam Lashinsky interviewed Perkins. Here is a video of the entire program, 1:06:05 worth.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:37   #52
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Here is another point made...
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Tom Perkins: Taxes will lead to 'economic extinction' of the 1%
Quote:
Perkins pegged the problem of the American taxation system on failures in social, fiscal, and monetary policy. The income gap has roots in the War on Poverty, Perkins said, which he wished "had not been such a fiasco." He blamed Lyndon B. Johnson's social programs for an increase in out-of-wedlock birthrates and low-income single parent households. Fiscally, Perkins said that the government spends too much money on entitlement programs, an issue highlighted by the debt that the U.S. accrues as a result. "We're on a knife edge with this incredible debt that can't be paid back," Perkins said.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:03   #53
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I say we don't let those vote who have collected welfare for more than 6 months in the preceding 4 years.

I don't think owning property or having a minimum net worth should be a requirement. You can be working and pay taxes without meeting those two conditions. Your choice to rent and spend all of your paycheck.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:14   #54
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
So you disagree with a system that allows all non-felon citizens of voting age to vote? You think allowing the government to start choosing who can vote on a whim is going to turn out great? Believing that Kablam could pick his magic set of parameters and they'd stay in place forever without being changed and manipulated is incredibly myopic.
Myopic's ass. I never said, nor implied, that "I" should or could pick any set of parameters. The states get to do that according to the COTUS. Once again you let your emotions get in the way of pragmatically analyzing what the original intent was. Here's a clue...not unfettered democracy and the resultant irresponsibility of the voters and the government. Prove me wrong.

I disagree with a system that keeps moving the powers reserved for the states to the federal government. If the states individually allow "all non-felon citizens of voting age to vote," then that's fine. Why deny felons by the way? I'm not arguing who has the right to vote, I'm simply questioning who has the power to determine voting eligibility under the Constitution. You see, just because you want something to be "your" way, doesn't mean it should be.

The founders had a good reason to limit the power and size of the federal government...they foresaw exactly what has happened as we've eroded the power of the states and transferred it to the fed. They knew "one size fits all" would not work in this country. You can surely see that, correct? Education (absolute nose dive across the board since the D of Ed was founded), popularly elected senators (used to be the states took care of that to protect state's rights), unemployment (used to be provided by insurance at the state level), federal income tax (gives the fed complete power of the purse by holding the taxpayers money over the "heads" of the states)...over $17T in debt and no end in sight. States typically have to balance their budgets by their constitutions. How's that ever growing omnipotent federal government working?
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:38   #55
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A flat 10% income tax across the board would solve a lot. JMO.
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:11   #56
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A flat 10% income tax across the board would solve a lot. JMO.
Yes, but that wouldn't work according to some. However, the alternatives, well, here's an article related to Mr. Perkins...
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Taxation and Representation - Tom Perkins has a point.
Quote:
Tom Perkins is not exactly a sympathetic figure, but the man has a point...

Today, he is once again being locked in the stocks of public opinion for suggesting, only partly tongue-in-cheek, that people who pay an enormously disproportionate share of the taxes should have a disproportionate say in public policy...

But Mr. Perkins here has only taken a step that progressives took a few generations ago, when they embraced escalating rates of taxation as a foundation for economic justice, and applied it to a different problem. If our political liabilities — taxes — should be as a matter of justice proportional to our income, then why shouldn’t our political input be likewise proportionate? Why should proportionality be the rule in one context and not the other? The leap from “No taxation without representation” to “proportional taxation with proportional representation” is not a very dramatic one. But Mr. Perkins has been received as though he were the offspring of Marie Antoinette and an unreconstructed Ebenezer Scrooge.

Indeed, even proportional taxation was not, and is not, enough for our progressives. A flat tax on income would be perfectly proportional: A man earning $100,000 a year would pay ten times as much as a many earning $10,000 a year. Most conservatives would be perfectly happy with that arrangement. Progressives demand more...
There's more to read in the article...
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Old 02-17-2014, 14:56   #57
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I pay sales tax, can I still vote?
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Old 02-17-2014, 15:06   #58
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Some of the idea proposed in this read are just systemic of ignorance of economics and a sense of entitlement that whatever hey do is somehow a better job than somebody who chose a different profession.

Look at some of the vitriol directed at government workers. BS claims that cops and firemen are somehow connected to organized crime. BS implications that because your paid through tax money you are somehow a leech. Just an amazing display of ignorance.

What about DOT? Do you like having roads salted in the winter or maintained in some semblance of repair? Good luck getting to your real job via horse if you don't expect communities to put money towards infrastructure. Or hey how about those tax money vampires working in air traffic control centers across the country. Yup federal employees maintaining economic viability for the nation. But none of those bastards should get a vote because the dude that owns a bait shop in the middle of nowhere has a better understanding and idea as to the direction his country should take. His job is somehow more important than any of the hundreds of government jobs that serve a purpose.
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Old 02-17-2014, 16:18   #59
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I pay sales tax, can I still vote?
Are you able to deduct that tax paid from your taxable income?
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Old 02-17-2014, 16:42   #60
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Originally Posted by Reheater View Post
Some of the idea proposed in this read are just systemic of ignorance of economics and a sense of entitlement that whatever hey do is somehow a better job than somebody who chose a different profession.

Look at some of the vitriol directed at government workers. BS claims that cops and firemen are somehow connected to organized crime. BS implications that because your paid through tax money you are somehow a leech. Just an amazing display of ignorance.

What about DOT? Do you like having roads salted in the winter or maintained in some semblance of repair? Good luck getting to your real job via horse if you don't expect communities to put money towards infrastructure. Or hey how about those tax money vampires working in air traffic control centers across the country. Yup federal employees maintaining economic viability for the nation. But none of those bastards should get a vote because the dude that owns a bait shop in the middle of nowhere has a better understanding and idea as to the direction his country should take. His job is somehow more important than any of the hundreds of government jobs that serve a purpose.


What you say is true. Take it as mostly a cross section of Repubs and you can very easily see why they can't get together to defeat a common enemy!
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