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Old 01-20-2008, 11:16   #21
WilyCoyote
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It's funny to see so many people having trouble with not looking at it as a grade scale. Since there are so many variables, as well as what someone's idea of a GHB/BOB actually is, the scale was designed to compare apples to oranges. I tried to make it so people could see if they were apple people, orange, or bananna people, if you will. A 70 is not better than a 50, it's just different.

I sacraficed in several categories for portability and ease of storage. ie, a two man tent is nice, but I can hack it with a fleece pullover and a poncho.

Also, I recognize the importance of fire, maps, etc, but in order to include those categories, I would have to dillute the value of the others to less than a 5% varibale. I thought that would make things too vague for comparison. It seems it would be very easy to overcomplicate this scale.
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Old 01-20-2008, 14:23   #22
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I do see your point Wily. For starters a GHB and BOB (while conceptually similar) are very different things and would score differently on these scales. For instance, a GHB needs only a day or two of high energy snack food whereas a BOB should have regular meals for at least several days if not a week or more.

Also, people face different problems in their planning and that would also effect how a bag scores. If you're in a cold weather environment then you need a sleeping bag, bivy and a tent. For warm weather, sleeping out under the stars might be perfectly reasonable with only a poncho to keep the rain off.

As for the actual scales, the rule of threes should reign supreme. Shelter, water, food in that order. However, I think there might still be room for some additions here. Fire making could be incorporated somehow under shelter because the main purpose of a campfire is to defend against exposure (but can also cook food or sterilize water). I'd also like to propose the following three scales be added to the overall system.

First Aid:
1. Rub some dirt on it, it'll be fine.
2. Barney print boo-boo kit.
3. Aspirin or acetaminophen, antihistamine, assorted band-aids
4. Pre-made hiker's first aid kit (Ozark Trail, Coleman, etc.)
5. Pre-made hiker's kit with useful additions such as moleskin for foot blisters, sterile pads and butterfly bandages
6. First aid kit above plus needed prescription meds.
7. First aid kit above plus prescription meds and personal medical info (blood type, allergies, conditions, etc.)
8. First aid kit above plus a G.I. bandage.
9. Clotting agent, pressure and triangular bandages for traumatic injuries
10. Surgical kit or M3 Medic bag with scalpel, suture, disinfectant, antibiotics, clotting agent, etc.

Communications:
1. HELLO! Hello... hello...
2. Signal mirror and flashlight or light sticks
3. Signal mirror, flashlight and handheld flares.
4. Signal mirror and hand launch flares or flare gun
5. Strobe light beacon and/or portable FM/AM radio
6. Shortwave radio receiver and some form of the above.
7. Multiband receiver and/or handheld walkie-talkie under 5 watts (e.g. FRS/GMRS)
8. Handheld/portable single-band transceiver at 5 watts or more (Ham VHF/UHF or CB).
9. Ham radio handheld/portable transceiver with wide band receive and multi-band transmit at 5 watts or more.
10. Radio bag with antennas capable of wide band receive and multi-band transmit at 40 watts or more.

Navigation:
1. Where am I and what am I doing in this hand basket?
2. Which way is the sun?
3. Map? What map? I don't need no stinking map. I've got a keychain compass and the map is in my head.
4. Rand McNally is my friend.
5. Laminated street maps and decent quality compass.
6. Laminated street maps with lensatic compass with preplanned route.
7. Lensatic compass and topo maps with pre-planned route.
8. Lensatic compass and topo maps with primary and alternative routes that avoid congested/ problem areas.
9. GPS receiver with typical street maps.
10. GPS receiver with detailed maps in memory of my AO and pre-plotted primary and alternative routes.

How much these should be weighted in the overall system is up for debate. I'm thinking no more than 5% or 10% each. Where that weight should come from is also negotiable. I won't add these to the spreadsheet unless the group consensus is that they belong (and at what weight). I submit them to the group for discussion.

P.S. I smell a sticky here...
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Old 01-20-2008, 15:49   #23
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I like those scales and I also like how you incoported fire and light into shelter and communication, should make things easier. I agree that the main scale should be modified, but there should be some agreement as to the defenition that matches both the BOB and GHB, since some choose one over the other based on their needs.

How about this:

A BOB (Bug Out Bag) or GHB (Get home bag) is defined as a person portable collection of equipment preassembled with the specific goal of assisting a person or persons with rapidly obtaining a short or long term overland goal. It's contents include equipment needed for sustaining life or otherwise assisting the user in acheiving the overland goal.

Below is an ammended list of category values based on user suggestions. I'll go ahead and edit the list at the top, Gecko, can you edit the spreadsheet?

Shelter-25% BASIC3
Hydro Power-20% BASIC3
Feedability-15% BASIC3

Navigation 10% (Necessity to achieving overland goal)
Portability-10% (Necessity to achieving overland goal)

Combat-5% (Contingency, may or may not been needed)
First Aid 5% (Contingency, may or may not been needed)
Comms 5% (Contingency, may or may not been needed)
Durability 5% (You aren't getting anywhere if your stuff falls apart or fails in the field)
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Old 01-20-2008, 16:44   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilyCoyote View Post
First off, this is long so get a beer, a pen, and your calulator.

Rate your BOB/GHB under these catagories. Only tell me what you'd change about the scale after you port your score. The phrase GHB/BOB includes the method of carry and its contents and does NOT include anything you have in your pockets or carry on your person.

*IMPORTANT*If you have a redundancy in any category than add +1 to your score in that category if your redundancy is a 1-5, and +2 if it's a 6-10. The highest score you can achieve in any category is a 10.

Portability-This catagory defines your GHB's/BOB's ease of movement and accounts for 10% of the final score.

Hydro Power-This section defines your GHB's/BOB's ability to keep you hydrated and peeing clear and accounts for 20% of your total score

Feedability-This section defines your GHB's/BOB's ability to keep you fed and accounts for 15% of you total score

Sheltering Ability-This section defines your GHB's/BOB's ability to keep you warm and dry and will account for 25% of your overall score

Combat-This section defines your GHB's/BOB's ability to protect your from malicious harm and does NOT include any weapons you already regularly carry on your person. This category accounts for 5% of your final score.

Durability-This section defines your GHB's/BOB's ability to take abuse and accounts for 5% of the overall score.

First Aid-This section defines your GHB's/BOB's ability to keep you and other alive in the event of injury or incapacitation and accounts for 5% of your overall score

Communication-This defines your GHB's/BOB's ability to stay in touch with others and/or gather real time intelligence on the situation at hand and accounts for 5% of your overall score

Navigation-This section evaluates your GHB's/BOB's ability to aid you in finding your way and achiving your overland goal and accounts for 10% of your fnal score

Portability scoring chart:

1. What do you mean I have to carry it by myself?
2. Duffel Bag/Full Ruck
3. Check this out, it's got nifty wheels on it
4. 3-5 day internal or external frame pack
5. Comfortable Day Pack
6. High-School style backback (Jansport, Etc)
7. Shoulder pack/camera bag
8. Lunch Box
9. Fanny Pack
10. Now which pocket did I put that in?

**********4
Hydro Power scoring chart:

1. Ok we're gonna risk drinking the swamp water...You first, Dale
2. Wow this idodine tab makes the water taste like %$#@
3. (#2)+ but don't worry this tabs takes the bad taste out
4. 1x Lg brand name water bottle (Crystal Springs, Dasani) or military canteen
5. 2x (#4)
6. 1x Gal Jug or equivalent
7. Fully filled hydration pack.
8. Basic Hand pump style water filter (dirt, bacteria, chemicals)
9. Advanced Hand pump style water filter (dirt, Bacteria, chemicals, cysts viruses)
10. (#8 or #9 with a #2-#7 contingency)

*****7+...1 I think? Hydration pack, PLUS potable aqua (no PA plus...), PLUS a filled Nalgene bottle, PLUS a "survival straw.") I keep bottled H20 in the car, but that's to FILL the hydration pack when the time comes...

Feedability Scoring chart:

1. Mmmm that beetle sure looks tastey
2. Hard candy
3. Candy Bar
4. Big Granola or Power Bar/Bag o GORP
5. Freeze dried single serving meal
6. MRE
7. 3+ Days of Freeze dried single serving meals
8. 3+ Days of MREs
9. Weeks Worth of Freeze dried single serving meals
10. Weeks worth of MRE's

**********??? Where do things like Mainstay Rations, and a small complement of MRE crackers, jam, and PB fall??? Just to finish my prelim score, I'll give it a 7 till I know for sure.

Sheltering ability Scoring chart:

1. So C-C-Cold
2. See, you just cut holes in this garbage bag here and you have a poncho!
3. Real poncho
4. Longsleeve wool/poly pullover
5. Blanket
6. Winter parka Shell
7. Winter parka shell and liner
8. Bivouac
9. Small Tent
10. Large tent

**********8+1 (bivy and garbage bags...and a space blanket)

Combat scoring chart:

1. Toe-nail clippers
2. Pen knife
3. Swiss Army knife/Multi tool
4. Tactical Folder (Benchmade, Kershaw, etc)
5. Fixed blade combat or boot knife
6. Large combat knife (Ka-Bar, Old School survival knife)
7. Mouse Gun
8. Handgun
9. Pistol caliber carbine
10. Rifle

**********6+1 - Glock knife and SAK or Leatherman, no firearm stuff just in the bag

Durability Scoring chart:

1. Made in Kerplekistan for pennies on the dollar
2. No, don't hold it like that it'll tear!
3. Nothing a little duct tape wont fix
4. Yeah, pretty cool, huh? Bought it at a flea market
5. Military surplus is good enough for me
6. Dale's Sporting Goods was having a sale
7. REI baby, R...E...I
8. Of course it's awesome..It's what all the troops are usin' in IRAQ
9. Mail order from some famous reputable company
10. The latest waterproof, sandproof, rip-stop, chrome-lined, sexy goodness

**********From CTD, but has good ratings and I can't disagree thus far...guess it's fair to call it a 4?

First Aid:

1. Rub some dirt on it, it'll be fine.
2. Barney print boo-boo kit.
3. Aspirin or acetaminophen, antihistamine, assorted band-aids
4. Pre-made hiker's first aid kit (Ozark Trail, Coleman, etc.)
5. Pre-made hiker's kit with useful additions such as moleskin for foot blisters, sterile pads and butterfly bandages
6. First aid kit above plus needed prescription meds.
7. First aid kit above plus prescription meds and personal medical info (blood type, allergies, conditions, etc.)
8. First aid kit above plus a G.I. bandage.
9. Clotting agent, pressure and triangular bandages for traumatic injuries
10. Surgical kit or M3 Medic bag with scalpel, suture, disinfectant, antibiotics, clotting agent, etc.

**********I'll give myself a 7. I DON'T have my medical info (but nor do I have any major conditions/drug allergies), but I DO have GI and triangular bandages and clotting agent, and OTC/Rx meds.

Communications:

1. HELLO! Hello... hello...
2. Signal mirror and flashlight or light sticks
3. Signal mirror, flashlight and handheld flares.
4. Signal mirror and hand launch flares or flare gun
5. Strobe light beacon and/or portable FM/AM radio
6. Shortwave radio receiver and.
7. Multiband receiver and/or handheld walkie-talkie under 5 watts (e.g. FRS/GMRS)
8. Handheld/portable single-band transceiver at 5 watts or more (Ham VHF/UHF or CB).
9. Ham radio handheld/portable transceiver with wide band receive and multi-band transmit at 5 watts or more.
10. Radio bag with antennas capable of wide band receive and multi-band transmit at 40 watts or more.

**********5 (FM/AM) +1 (flashlight and signal mirror)

Navigation:

1. Where am I and what am I doing in this hand basket?
2. Which way is the sun?
3. Map? What map? I don't need no stinking map. I've got a keychain compass and the map is in my head.
4. Rand McNally is my friend.
5. Laminated street maps and decent quality compass.
6. Laminated street maps with lensatic compass with preplanned route.
7. Lensatic compass and topo maps with pre-planned route.
8. Lensatic compass and topo maps with primary and alternative routes that avoid congested/ problem areas.
9. GPS receiver with typical street maps.
10. GPS receiver with detailed maps in memory of my AO and pre-plotted primary and alternative routes.

**********3...:o I'm boned if I have to go too far off the beaten path...



Determining your final score. Take the number you score in a category, divide by ten and multiply by the percentage that category is worth.

For example, If I score a 7 in Portability (worth 15%) then I multiply .7 x15 getting a category score of 10.5

Add the category scores for your final score. See Geko's link a few replies below for a spreadsheet that makes the math easier.


Good luck, I hope no one has a headache yet. No one will score a 100, but im interested to see where most people fall under.
Awright, I'll play, but I need a little HELP in getting my base score on some of these....

If I did it right, and based on my "best guesses" at some of these, I rank a 68 maybe?

Open to "quibble room" on the things I'm not sure about...

FWIW, it's for a GHB. The trip from work is only 15 miles (YAAAY!) but most of it is up and down pretty steep hills (BOO, HISS).

I think I do pack too much stuff in there, I need to trim it down a bit.

Anyhow, hard as it was doing it (which wasn't that bad really, even before the spreadsheet), it must have been a lot harder CREATING it! Hats off to WileyC!
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Old 01-20-2008, 17:28   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilyCoyote View Post
Below is an ammended list of category values based on user suggestions. I'll go ahead and edit the list at the top, Gecko, can you edit the spreadsheet?
Alright, I've incorporated the above recommendations and promoted its status from "unofficial" to "semi-official".



Semi-Official BOB/GHB Rating System Calculator Version 2.2

P.S. This really deserves to become a sticky at this point. Imagine, no more fumbling in the dark to describe your bag. Just rate it against these scales!
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Old 01-20-2008, 19:55   #26
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Geko45, I really like the idea of combining the shelter / firemaking, but I don't know if they can even be combined. Some people might have different needs depending on location and such...

To all: I think that we need to rethink the grading scale. Maybe 100 points for the basic three (because they are truly the most important), and then after that there could be bonus point categories? It will still be difficult to reach 100 points even with the bonus points...

In the "basic 3", we can have a separate category for firemaking since it is vital to food, water, and shelter... so essentially they are 4 categories sharing the 100-point scale. Then as bonuses, the Navigation, Communication, and I really think we need to do something about medical / hygiene, and something about environment adaptation (such as respirators, KI tablets, gloves, etc in case of a NBC attack or situation. I think flashlights and NVG's can fit in here too since they are for adapting to a dark environment).

That actually sounds like a pretty solid scale - making the basic 3 (in our case 4) making the 100-point scale and everything else is bonus...
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Old 01-20-2008, 20:33   #27
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I suggest a different scale.
If you have tested your BOB/GHB, you pass.
If you haven't, you fail.


This is an apples/oranges/banana thing.
My bag is good to around 20, below that it gets cold.
Guys in FL, your bags are setup for what 40-50s?
Guys in AZ, how much water do you have to have?
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Old 01-20-2008, 23:17   #28
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Ok I'll workout a firemaking scale tomorrow, but those points hafa come from somewhere. I'll likely have to take down the percentages in the big three down to less than a 5% variable.
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Old 01-20-2008, 23:40   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
I suggest a different scale.
If you have tested your BOB/GHB, you pass.
If you haven't, you fail.
Ok, I did a spreadsheet for your rating system too, but somehow I don't think we'll have as much fun with it.

RWBlue's BOB/GHB Rating System Calculator

Or maybe we will! Here's a screenshot:



Survival/Preparedness Forum
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Old 01-21-2008, 00:55   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Ok, I did a spreadsheet for your rating system too, but somehow I don't think we'll have as much fun with it.
RWBlue's BOB/GHB Rating System Calculator
Or maybe we will! Here's a screenshot:
Survival/Preparedness Forum
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:53   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
Adversity introduces us to ourselves

There is no second place in survival

Everything you do may kill you .including doing nothing.
Oh, those are keepers! They're going into the spreadsheet!

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Old 01-21-2008, 11:06   #32
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4
10
10
10
10
10
9
5
5
10


88.5

Last edited by 223242; 01-21-2008 at 12:49.. Reason: adjusted for fire => still same result
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:12   #33
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Ok fire making ability category has been added by popular demand and the category values have been adjusted accordingly. Geko, if you would be so kind, please update the spreadsheet.
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Old 01-21-2008, 14:39   #34
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Quote:
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Ok fire making ability category has been added by popular demand and the category values have been adjusted accordingly. Geko, if you would be so kind, please update the spreadsheet.
Done and done. We now have 10 categories of BOB/GHB rating goodness!



Semi-Official BOB/GHB Rating System Calculator Version 2.2

My GHB score under the new system went from a 68.5 to a 66.5 so I don't think we've skewed anything to badly with the new categories. I need to rate my BOB too at some point, but am dreading pulling everything apart for inventorying. That suckers PHAT! (figuratively and literally)

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Old 01-21-2008, 16:09   #35
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tagged for cursing later because I will probably score a 2...
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Old 01-21-2008, 16:30   #36
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tagged for cursing later because I will probably score a 2...
Nah, the minimum possible score is 10. You get points for maintaining a pulse and having the ability to form words...

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Old 01-22-2008, 00:45   #37
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i got a 59.5.

this is pretty neat.
if i decided to carry my 2 person tent then my score would be 72.1
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Old 01-22-2008, 00:54   #38
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Version 2.1 I score a 62.1.

Lowest rated or portability and navigation, each at 4.



Just a note: It is, of course, impossible to actually score 100. You arne't going to have a rifle/shotgun, shelter, weeks worth of food, etc AND have it all fit in a pocket.

But that's good. It's all about compromise. You can't bring everything with you, and the more you bring the more you get weighted down...
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Old 01-22-2008, 00:55   #39
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Wow, this got long! Must re-calculate. V2.1

Fire helped me out, food is still mediocre, nav sure didn't help, and neither did comms. Fortunately, as I've said before, my max hike is 5.1 miles from the horses, through sparcely populated areas, or 5.2 miles from work, through nice residential neighborhoods. That dramatically decreases my need for navigational tools, as I'm familiar enough with the area to find alternate routes, from either location, with no problems. Due to the short distances involved, this also makes my lack of gourmet food a less serious problem, and my half dozen Power/Cliff/Tiger Milk bars will suffice.

Category Score Weight Points
Shelter: 9 21% 18.9
Hydro: 10 16% 16.0
Food: 6 12% 7.2
Fire: 10 11% 11.0
Portable: 5 10% 5.0
Navigation: 4 10% 4.0
Durable: 9 5% 4.5
Defense: 10 5% 5.0
First Aid: 6 5% 3.0
Comms: 3 5% 1.5
Total 100% 76.1
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Old 01-22-2008, 00:57   #40
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Got out the beer...had a few but too fuzzy to accurately respond-will reassess in the AM
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