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Old 05-08-2013, 19:37   #26
juggy4711
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Insulting me won't make your imaginary quote magically appear. If he told people to ignore the founding fathers... You should have no problem providing the quote.
It won't? Ah crap then I take it back. You are that dense.
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Old 05-08-2013, 19:38   #27
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Insulting me won't make your imaginary quote magically appear. If he told people to ignore the founding fathers... You should have no problem providing the quote.
It's not a quote.

Obama tells OSU grads to reject the Founding Fathers' voices. That's the thread title.

I can tell you to do something in such a way as not to actually leave you with something to quote me on.

Following the ideas in his speech would be a rejection of the Founders beliefs.

Make sense?
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Old 05-08-2013, 19:43   #28
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funny, didnt the democrats/liberals say just the opposite during the hippie phase?
I'm too young to remember the Hippie times.

I'm NOT too young to remember the BushII years...seems like the Dems weren't all lovey-dovey with the government then either. I remember how "questioning the government IS patriotic" came from many 'a Dems lips then....
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Old 05-08-2013, 20:39   #29
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Originally Posted by juggy4711 View Post
It won't? Ah crap then I take it back. You are that dense.
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Originally Posted by Michael Rye View Post
It's not a quote.

Obama tells OSU grads to reject the Founding Fathers' voices. That's the thread title.

I can tell you to do something in such a way as not to actually leave you with something to quote me on.

Following the ideas in his speech would be a rejection of the Founders beliefs.

Make sense?
I see... so we all agree he didn't actually say what you're accusing him of saying? Sure... if you hate a person enough you can take whatever they say and try and inject a double meaning that threatens your ideas and beliefs just so you can hate them even more. But in reality... as in... the real world where facts matter... he didn't actually say it.

"Unfortunately, you’ve grown up hearing voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that’s at the root of all our problems…They’ll warn that tyranny’s always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices. Because what they suggest is that our brave and creative and unique experiment in self-rule is somehow just a sham with which we can’t be trusted."

No mention of the founding fathers at all. As someone who really isn't biased, what he appears to be saying is to not listen to anyone that says making America great is a lost cause. That even our leaders are citizens and those that say the government is too broke to fix and evil to the core go against it's most basic principles. I'm not crazy about Obama either. But you guys hate him, with a venom that really makes you kinda crazy. He's a president. His time will pass and there'll be some other tool to ***** about shortly.
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:08   #30
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I see... so we all agree he didn't actually say what you're accusing him of saying? Sure... if you hate a person enough you can take whatever they say and try and inject a double meaning that threatens your ideas and beliefs just so you can hate them even more. But in reality... as in... the real world where facts matter... he didn't actually say it.

"Unfortunately, you’ve grown up hearing voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that’s at the root of all our problems…They’ll warn that tyranny’s always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices. Because what they suggest is that our brave and creative and unique experiment in self-rule is somehow just a sham with which we can’t be trusted."

No mention of the founding fathers at all. As someone who really isn't biased, what he appears to be saying is to not listen to anyone that says making America great is a lost cause. That even our leaders are citizens and those that say the government is too broke to fix and evil to the core go against it's most basic principles. I'm not crazy about Obama either. But you guys hate him, with a venom that really makes you kinda crazy. He's a president. His time will pass and there'll be some other tool to ***** about shortly.
While I do not blame you for not being aware of my posting history, as I am not the most outspoken or prolific poster in GTPI, you are still that dense. I challenge you to find one, just one, post where I have demonstrated an irrational hate of Obama. In fact I have received grief at times when I didn't tow the "Obama is the worst ever" line. I have been called many a name just because I don't think Obama is the dumbest person ever.

Distrusting the government is a stance of the Founders is it not? Obama plain as day indicated that folks should reject that. If you require him to plainly state "reject the words of Founders" to perceive that was the intent of his statements then you are unable to understand context.

You are barking up the wrong tree trying to pin me as some birther. And yes you're biased as demonstrated by your responses.
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:09   #31
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It won't? Ah crap then I take it back. You are that dense.
You can't win this argument juggy. It looks like he is an Obama lover and you know you can't win any argument with them. I understand what you are saying, and so does he, but he won't admit it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 21:33   #32
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You can't win this argument juggy. It looks like he is an Obama lover and you know you can't win any argument with them. I understand what you are saying, and so does he, but he won't admit it.
I'm well aware of that. I wouldn't even go as far as to say G36 is an Obama lover. But for whatever reason, likely political cowardice, he feels the need to take such a stance. It's probably Emersonian consistency.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:02   #33
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Distrusting the government is a stance of the Founders is it not? Obama plain as day indicated that folks should reject that.
No he didn't. He indicated they they should reject that it is sinister and the cause of all problems. That tyranny is just around the corner. He never stated that the founding father's voices should be reject or even the notion that government should be held responsible to its people. He clearly is saying to reject the notion that government and politicians are evil. And that it isn't impossible to change the future. Like I said I'm no fan of Obama but because I'm not part of the lynch mob... I must be. I think he's making terrible mistakes left and right. He is my president though, so I want him to do well. It's in all of our best interest for him to do well. Despite the fact that he isn't... his comments weren't a rejection of democracy or the voices of the founders here.

Quote:
If you require him to plainly state "reject the words of Founders" to perceive that was the intent of his statements then you are unable to understand context.
Let's look at the context shall we. He's talking to a group of young people. Possible future leaders. Kids that are probably smart enough, that one speech isn't going to brain wash them. Their minds are probably already somewhat decided on their political leanings for the moment. Which do you think is more likely... he's attacking the founders or he's telling them the future is their's for the making? You think he's trying to tell them to toss the American idea... or is he telling them it's not too broke to fix?

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You are barking up the wrong tree trying to pin me as some birther.
Never said the word birther. You feeling guilty or something?

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And yes you're biased as demonstrated by your responses.
Yes I must be biased, I don't hate Obama enough to twist anything he says into a threat to democracy.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:06   #34
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political cowardice
I don't even know what that means. Am I afraid of politics or afraid of politicians or what?
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:09   #35
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It looks like he is an Obama lover
Right... because I'm not frothing at the mouth with hatred of him to the point of making up nonsense to damn him... I must just love him to death. You sound like one of the crazies I was talking about. You don't have to agree with him... but he is your leader... you should hope he does well. But you're so blinded by your Us Vs Them hatred that you're content to be part of the problem.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:18   #36
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... but he is your leader.........
I can think of "nothing" that he has "lead" us on. Nothing. He always slinks off into the background and let's the issue try to resolve itself. Any other view is delusional.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:37   #37
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
...Like I said I'm no fan of Obama but because I'm not part of the lynch mob... I must be...
You are stupid

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Originally Posted by juggy4711 View Post
...I wouldn't even go as far as to say G36 is an Obama lover...
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Yes I must be biased, I don't hate Obama enough to twist anything he says into a threat to democracy.
Thank God we don't live in a democracy. At least we are not supposed to.
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Old 05-08-2013, 22:41   #38
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I don't even know what that means. Am I afraid of politics or afraid of politicians or what?
It means you're to chicken **** to state things the way they are because you're afraid you will be labeled a racist or some other such nonsense.
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Old 05-08-2013, 23:09   #39
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Old 05-08-2013, 23:21   #40
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I'm sure Obama believes that Bill Ayers is a much finer example of an American than, say, John Adams or Thomas Jefferson... Political Issues


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Yeah, that sounds like what the socialist a_ _hole just might believe .
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:45   #41
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As much as Comrade 36 would like to believe that Comrade WinnySmith purged all records of Dear Leader Comrade Zero's negative personal opinions about our founding documents, and hence by extension our Founding Fathers; that is in fact, not the case. Many of us know exactly what chaps Zero's ass, and exactly what flavor of Koolaid he is asking those little darlings to swill. MSLSD may be reporting that all things doubleplusungood are already down the memory hole, but that simply is not the case.

Quote:
First: “We still suffer from not having a Constitution that guarantees its citizens economic rights.” By positive economic rights, Obama means government protection against individual economic failures, such as low incomes, unemployment, poverty, lack of health care, and the like. Obama characterizes the Constitution as “a charter of negative liberties,” which “says what the states can’t do to you (and) what the Federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf.” (Ask not what you can do for your country but what your country can do for you, to paraphrase John F. Kennedy).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrode...edistribution/
The founders of this nation crafted that "charter of negative liberties" specifically to thwart the kind of tyrant Dear Leader Comrade Zero does in fact seek to be. Were that not so, Dear Leader Comrade Zero would not see said liberties (negative or otherwise) as hindering his desire to "fundamentally transform America". He would instead see those "negative liberties" as a redoubt from which to defend the Peoples' liberty, against the kind of absolute power which corrupts absolutely.

Nice try tovarisch, but better luck next time. Da?

You should see if Tinkle-Legs Matthews and Rachel Madcow might be willing to tutor you. I think part of their secret is to drink the bong water every day. Or so it would seem.

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Old 05-09-2013, 05:28   #42
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I can think of "nothing" that he has "lead" us on. Nothing. He always slinks off into the background and let's the issue try to resolve itself. Any other view is delusional.
You're attempting to change the subject and reframe the discussion. I didn't say Obama has been an excellent leader. Only that he is our leader and we should want him to do a good job. We don't have to agree with all of his ideas or policies and we're allowed to have an opinion... but we should want our leader to be a positive force.

But nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that your OP is dishonest. And all of you wolves are circling with insults and attacks because your argument in this particular case is just playground he said she said BS. You just want an excuse to ***** and moan.

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Originally Posted by juggy4711 View Post
You are stupid
Awwww don't be mad bro.

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Thank God we don't live in a democracy. At least we are not supposed to.
Thank who?!

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Originally Posted by juggy4711 View Post
It means you're to chicken **** to state things the way they are because you're afraid you will be labeled a racist or some other such nonsense.
Racist? LMAO, so because I'm not seeing this made up comment that Obama didn't actually make... it's because I'm afraid to disagree with him because he's black? To make a statement like that does make you sound like that's a huge reason you disagree with him. I don't think that's true... but c'mon... race? Grow the **** up. I think I can base my opinions on a politician on more than just the color of his skin. You guys are such a gang of stereotypical righty tighties. If I don't see every single word Obama says as some kind of evil socialist agenda then I must be in league with him and attempting to destroy this country. You guys are silly. He will come and go like all presidents. He'll get some credit for any positives that came out of his time in office and plenty of blame for things that went bad. All this will pass. Unclench your hole.

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Originally Posted by Fred Hansen View Post
As much as Comrade 36 would like to believe that Comrade WinnySmith purged all records of Dear Leader Comrade Zero's negative personal opinions about our founding documents, and hence by extension our Founding Fathers; that is in fact, not the case. Many of us know exactly what chaps Zero's ass, and exactly what flavor of Koolaid he is asking those little darlings to swill. MSLSD may be reporting that all things doubleplusungood are already down the memory hole, but that simply is not the case.


"First: “We still suffer from not having a Constitution that guarantees its citizens economic rights.” By positive economic rights, Obama means government protection against individual economic failures, such as low incomes, unemployment, poverty, lack of health care, and the like. Obama characterizes the Constitution as “a charter of negative liberties,” which “says what the states can’t do to you (and) what the Federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf.” (Ask not what you can do for your country but what your country can do for you, to paraphrase John F. Kennedy)."

The founders of this nation crafted that "charter of negative liberties" specifically to thwart the kind of tyrant Dear Leader Comrade Zero does in fact seek to be. Were that not so, Dear Leader Comrade Zero would not see said liberties (negative or otherwise) as hindering his desire to "fundamentally transform America". He would instead see those "negative liberties" as a redoubt from which to defend the Peoples' liberty, against the kind of absolute power which corrupts absolutely.

Nice try tovarisch, but better luck next time. Da?

You should see if Tinkle-Legs Matthews and Rachel Madcow might be willing to tutor you. I think part of their secret is to drink the bong water every day. Or so it would seem.

Interesting mouthful of nonsense. So where does any of this generate this quote from the OP where Obama was instructing people to reject the voice of our founders?

From your quote I see a man that is idealistic about what government should do for its people. I disagree with much of it, but I see nothing wrong with at least having the idea. We as a nation can discuss ideas and then when the time comes our representatives can vote on what, if any, changes will be made. Having ideas that people disagree with isn't a crime.

I too disagree with the idea that all people should be "Protected" from being poor. And I think (which many of you would probably agree with me) that if you give people free money for doing nothing... you can't really expect them to do anything else. I see it first hand every year when I do people's taxes. I see people flooding in that made $10K for the year and have 3 kids and they get an $8K refund when they didn't even pay any withholding tax in the first place. And then they get pissed when it takes 2 weeks to process. And in the past when I could get it for them in 2 days or less... they were willing to pay me whatever to make that happen... wasn't their money. I'm not blind to the entitlement culture. And I disagree that they should be supported as they are. However... I also know first hand that there are some people that without government support... would certainly die, through no fault of their own. And we as American's should set aside resources for such people. We have a military that can level this world three times over. They have almost every form of destruction at their command except a Death Star and they may be working on that in secret. Yet some people get upset when they learn some of their tax dollars are helping a wheelchair bound single mother, who cannot work, feed her 10 year old.

However I do agree with the more left side of the table on things like Stem Cell Research and Gay Marriage. I fall somewhere in the middle I think you'll find. And it seems that's where all the sane people are.

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Old 05-09-2013, 17:09   #43
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You're attempting to change the subject and reframe the discussion. I didn't say Obama has been an excellent leader. Only that he is our leader and we should want him to do a good job. We don't have to agree with all of his ideas or policies and we're allowed to have an opinion... but we should want our leader to be a positive force.

But nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that your OP is dishonest. And all of you wolves are circling with insults and attacks because your argument in this particular case is just playground he said she said BS. You just want an excuse to ***** and moan.



Awwww don't be mad bro.



Thank who?!



Racist? LMAO, so because I'm not seeing this made up comment that Obama didn't actually make... it's because I'm afraid to disagree with him because he's black? To make a statement like that does make you sound like that's a huge reason you disagree with him. I don't think that's true... but c'mon... race? Grow the **** up. I think I can base my opinions on a politician on more than just the color of his skin. You guys are such a gang of stereotypical righty tighties. If I don't see every single word Obama says as some kind of evil socialist agenda then I must be in league with him and attempting to destroy this country. You guys are silly. He will come and go like all presidents. He'll get some credit for any positives that came out of his time in office and plenty of blame for things that went bad. All this will pass. Unclench your hole.



Interesting mouthful of nonsense. So where does any of this generate this quote from the OP where Obama was instructing people to reject the voice of our founders?

From your quote I see a man that is idealistic about what government should do for its people. I disagree with much of it, but I see nothing wrong with at least having the idea. We as a nation can discuss ideas and then when the time comes our representatives can vote on what, if any, changes will be made. Having ideas that people disagree with isn't a crime.

I too disagree with the idea that all people should be "Protected" from being poor. And I think (which many of you would probably agree with me) that if you give people free money for doing nothing... you can't really expect them to do anything else. I see it first hand every year when I do people's taxes. I see people flooding in that made $10K for the year and have 3 kids and they get an $8K refund when they didn't even pay any withholding tax in the first place. And then they get pissed when it takes 2 weeks to process. And in the past when I could get it for them in 2 days or less... they were willing to pay me whatever to make that happen... wasn't their money. I'm not blind to the entitlement culture. And I disagree that they should be supported as they are. However... I also know first hand that there are some people that without government support... would certainly die, through no fault of their own. And we as American's should set aside resources for such people. We have a military that can level this world three times over. They have almost every form of destruction at their command except a Death Star and they may be working on that in secret. Yet some people get upset when they learn some of their tax dollars are helping a wheelchair bound single mother, who cannot work, feed her 10 year old.

However I do agree with the more left side of the table on things like Stem Cell Research and Gay Marriage. I fall somewhere in the middle I think you'll find. And it seems that's where all the sane people are.
How long did THAT take you?


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Old 05-09-2013, 22:02   #44
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How long did THAT take you?


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LOL. As in 'protesting too much'?

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:42   #45
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OK, I think the "journalist" who wrote that piece is reading much too far into it. He (and many folks here) extrapolates far beyond what is logical or reasonable, in my opinion.

What I get from the snippet of speech quoted, especially "...Because what they suggest is that our brave and creative and unique experiment in self-rule is somehow just a sham with which we can’t be trusted...", is an encouragement to be optimistic about the future and to participate actively in the formation of that future and our government.

If you choose to see something sinister in that little bit of speech, more power to you, but I disagree.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:31   #46
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You can't win this argument juggy. It looks like he is an Obama lover and you know you can't win any argument with them. I understand what you are saying, and so does he, but he won't admit it.

This card is played just as much as the left plays the race card. It's pathetic.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:34   #47
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That speech was scary. Well at least for those of us that love and value freedom.
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Old 05-12-2013, 00:32   #48
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Interesting mouthful of nonsense. So where does any of this generate this quote from the OP where Obama was instructing people to reject the voice of our founders?

From your quote I see a man that is idealistic about what government should do for its people. I disagree with much of it, but I see nothing wrong with at least having the idea. We as a nation can discuss ideas and then when the time comes our representatives can vote on what, if any, changes will be made. Having ideas that people disagree with isn't a crime.

I too disagree with the idea that all people should be "Protected" from being poor. And I think (which many of you would probably agree with me) that if you give people free money for doing nothing... you can't really expect them to do anything else. I see it first hand every year when I do people's taxes. I see people flooding in that made $10K for the year and have 3 kids and they get an $8K refund when they didn't even pay any withholding tax in the first place. And then they get pissed when it takes 2 weeks to process. And in the past when I could get it for them in 2 days or less... they were willing to pay me whatever to make that happen... wasn't their money. I'm not blind to the entitlement culture. And I disagree that they should be supported as they are. However... I also know first hand that there are some people that without government support... would certainly die, through no fault of their own. And we as American's should set aside resources for such people. We have a military that can level this world three times over. They have almost every form of destruction at their command except a Death Star and they may be working on that in secret. Yet some people get upset when they learn some of their tax dollars are helping a wheelchair bound single mother, who cannot work, feed her 10 year old.

However I do agree with the more left side of the table on things like Stem Cell Research and Gay Marriage. I fall somewhere in the middle I think you'll find. And it seems that's where all the sane people are.
The simple fact is that what Dear Leader Comrade Zero preaches--to any Hope-A-Doped moron who will listen--is directly antithetical to what the Founders had to say on the subject of that government which is best for people who seek the blessings of liberty. Which is completely congruent with the title of this thread--a title that you seem compelled to repeatedly refer to as a "quote" attributed to Dear Leader Comrade Zero.

With regard to "Gay Marriage" I'd say that Tinkle-Legs Matthews and Rachel Madcow would know more about it than I do; I find the issue to be a non-issue.

As to your "sane" stance on stem cells... LOL

The overwhelming majority of any meaningful research in that regard has been shown to be just as--if not more--effective using stem cells harvested from the patient themselves. Much to the chagrin of the soulless ghouls who would rather dabble in cloning and/or line the pockets of abortionists who sell the "by-product" of their ghastly endeavors in the human tissue market.


Now run along and play.
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Old 05-12-2013, 00:44   #49
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Ok, everybody settle down. This article was clearly taken out of context. Obama meant "Kenyan Founding Fathers."

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Old 05-17-2013, 22:47   #50
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