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Old 08-08-2014, 21:23   #41
RWBlue
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
#1: cruiser ready. Trigger pulled, safety off, chamber empty, mag tube full.

#2: the dog probably did what it was supposed to, albeit to the wrong person. If you're not a handler, you're a "gun" and you stay behind the dog. That's a training issue on the department.

#3: if you pick something up that isn't yours, that's theft..."did without privilege to do so deprive...." I'm taking an educated guess that he wasn't permitted to have a weapon to begin with. Ever more so, you find a shotgun in the road and keep it? First thing Id do is call the local PD and stand over it so a kid doesn't pick it up....
#1. That is what I expected. i.e. It is loaded.

#2. In many places a dog will get put down if it bites a person, even if the person is teasing it. If the dog did what it is suppose to do, then that is a different story.

#3. I am thinking that the gun may not have been really lost. I am wondering if the gun was taken from the motorcycle. This would be theft and the first story is just BS that was invented while they were looking for the person with the gun.

When I found a wallet in the road, I turned it in to the proper people. I would probably do the same for a gun, but that means the wallet or gun would be in my possession for a while until it got turned in.
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Old 08-08-2014, 22:50   #42
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Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
When I found a wallet in the road, I turned it in to the proper people. I would probably do the same for a gun, but that means the wallet or gun would be in my possession for a while until it got turned in.
And you turning it in is why that wasn't theft. If you had taken said wallet and kept it, or attempted to do so, it would be theft, no matter if you picked it up off the sidewalk or pulled it out of the persons' pocket. "Took the item with intent to permanently deprive the rightful owner of it." Doesn't matter how you came to have it in your possession, just that you attempted to keep it.
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Old 08-08-2014, 23:03   #43
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And you turning it in is why that wasn't theft. If you had taken said wallet and kept it, or attempted to do so, it would be theft, no matter if you picked it up off the sidewalk or pulled it out of the persons' pocket. "Took the item with intent to permanently deprive the rightful owner of it." Doesn't matter how you came to have it in your possession, just that you attempted to keep it.
So how long does someone have to be in possession of a lost item before it becomes theft?

How do you prove intent to permanently deprive the owner of the item?
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Old 08-08-2014, 23:12   #44
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So how long does someone have to be in possession of a lost item before it becomes theft?

How do you prove intent to permanently deprive the owner of the item?
If I had a dollar for everytime I heard "oh, I just found that....".

A novel idea is to not possess anything that isn't yours. If you find a wallet, walk across the street to one of 20000000000 mailboxes in this country and drop it in, or like I said, stand over it and call the police. A few extra minutes for peace of mind.


A wallet and an LAPD shotgun are a little different.


Also, like msu grad said, "did without privilege to do so deprive..." Is the wording for most theft offenses. Do I have to prove intent? Eh, possessing property that isn't yours is about intent enough. I dont care if you're taking it to go pawn for heroin or stealing it because you're bored...doesn't matter.


Let's no forget RSP either...good advice is to not have anyhing that isn't yours and let the proper people know about it.
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Old 08-08-2014, 23:18   #45
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A wallet and an LAPD shotgun are a little different.
I tend to agree and I may have learned something tonight.

I guess I will just walk away from the next wallet I find as if I didn't see it.
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Old 08-08-2014, 23:27   #46
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I tend to agree and I may have learned something tonight.

I guess I will just walk away from the next wallet I find as if I didn't see it.
There's ways to take care of things, ya know. People call us all the time for stuff they find.
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Old 08-09-2014, 00:10   #47
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How do you prove intent to permanently deprive the owner of the item?
In Illinois, it's rather simple. Boiled down, this is the most basic, widely-applicable definition:

"A person commits theft when he or she knowingly (1) obtains or exerts control over property of the owner; and (A) intends to deprive the owner permanently of the use or benefit of the property, or (C) uses, conceals or abandons the property knowing such use, concealment or abandonment will deprive the owner permanently of such use or benefit."

So, if I can develop probable cause (most likely through your actions) to believe you picked up the wallet you found on the sidewalk with the intent to keep it, you could absolutely face charges.

That said, even in relatively clear-cut examples of theft, the vast majority of owners only want their property returned intact, and decline to sign complaints once they get it back.

No one is saying not to be a good Samaritan and turn a found wallet in. Ohio Copper is right on that, we get called for found property several times a week. But if you're going to do that, just turn it in directly. This case is obviously completely different, though, as it involves a deadly weapon belonging to the local LE agency. In ANY case involving a deadly weapon or something of the like, follow the advice offered here earlier: CALL THE POLICE TO REPORT IT, AND DO WHAT YOU CAN TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T GET TAMPERED WITH BEFORE THEY ARRIVE.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:19   #48
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California Penal Code Section 485. One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who
appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another
person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just
efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is
guilty of theft.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:45   #49
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For the non-law enforcement in this thread, remember that the reports on this case are vastly more in depth and more detailed than a three-paragraph press release. The press release is almost always the most brief summary that the public information officer can manage, and is usually designed to minimize making public any information that could tip off outstanding suspects, or will compromise departmental procedures and safety.
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Old 08-09-2014, 12:02   #50
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I imagine the mayor and police chief had some off the record discussions with the involved parties. The internal politics in a big department like that must be incredible.
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Old 08-09-2014, 15:33   #51
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I imagine the mayor and police chief had some off the record discussions with the involved parties. The internal politics in a big department like that must be incredible.
While there are internal politics as you say, the Chief of Police and Mayor are so far removed from the operational aspects of these types of incidents that it would be fair to say that the Chief certainly knows about the incident, but the actual hands on he would have is quite minimal. The mayor, even more so.

When an officer is seriously injured, it is customary for the Chief to show up at the hospital to wish the officer well. However, that's about as far as it ever goes. As a matter of fact, because of Peace Officer Bill of Rights issues, the COP usually refrains from ex-parte communications with any officer involved in any serious incident, regardless of the circumstances.
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Old 08-11-2014, 17:58   #52
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Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
I tend to agree and I may have learned something tonight.

I guess I will just walk away from the next wallet I find as if I didn't see it.
Pick it up and call the local LE to turn it over or take it directly to the person in charge of the property. It isn't hard and happens daily. If you put it in your pocket and take it home where later LE has to find you then expect problems.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:21   #53
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I would want to pick it up and turn it in.

I would NOT want to be walking down MLK Blvd. carrying a shotgun though. No matter how short a distance to my car.
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:26   #54
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[QUOTE
Be that as it is why did a K-9 bite another officer while they were searching for the lost gun!!
.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the guy was standing
directly in front on the K9 at the time he was bitten?
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Old 08-15-2014, 19:28   #55
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I think shotguns on the motors are great, they can and do beat a car to any hot call that goes out...but, after seeing what the motor guy's guns look like-caked on, wind driven dust in EVERY crevice when we service them, I can't see how you would keep one clean enough without keeping them in some sort of light bag, at least around here. If they don't clean the pistols more often than other guys, I don't see them cleaning the shotguns at all. Funny, you could shave in your reflection off their HD's paint or chrome, but shake dirt clods out of the pistols.
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Old 08-16-2014, 13:46   #56
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My Sig armorer instructor did say he recommended motor officer's pistols get inspected twice a year instead of once.
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