GT Fundraiser Sweepstakes! Over $25,000 in Prizes!
GT is once again holding a fundraiser sweepstakes. We have some truly outstanding prizes to offer, including a Tactical Rifles M-40 .308 rifle,
Two custom AR-15's, with Black Rain lowers, Addax Tactical uppers and some great optics, a custom AR with an AR-5.7 5.7mmX28mm upper and a Black Rain lower, two Scottsdale Gun Club Custom Glocks, 3 other NIB Glocks, two custom 10/22 rifles, a new Mini-14 Ranch rifle and much, much more.Click Here For More Information
Found a good deal on a shotgun I wanted at Bud's, but being the good citizen that I am, I stopped in at my local gun shop to see if they could order it first.
When the "best price" he quoted me was more than $100 more than what I found online, I politely declined. The owner, whom I have up to this point patronized frequently, looked at me and very rudely pronounced, "Hey, I gotta stay in business."
Now I know that not every small business owner has an MBA, but they way you stay in business is by offering competitive prices and good service. I know small gun shops can't always match the prices of the online powerhouses, but this guy doesn't even come close, and is rude to boot!
But again, wanting to support a local business, I asked him what he would charge me to do the transfer. His answer? No transfers on guns he can order.
I understand the basic logic of not wanting to hurt your own business by allowing online stores to use you as a delivery mechanism, but in this instance, it makes no sense at all. His reasoning for not doing the transfer, presumably, is to try to get me to order the gun from him. This would make sense if he could order the gun for a total cost less than (online retail + someone else's transfer fee) But what person in their right mind would pay over $400 for a $290 gun?
So what's the net result for him? I ordered the gun online, and had it shipped to an FFL in the next town over, who gladly collected my $20 fee. That's -$20 in revenue for him, and a major loss of customer goodwill.
So what's the net result for him? I ordered the gun online, and had it shipped to an FFL in the next town over, who gladly collected my $20 fee. That's -$20 in revenue for him, and a major loss of customer goodwill.
He goes out of business because he can't keep up with modern business practices. It doesn't sound like he's the sharpest knife in the drawer either.
Internet shopping has made it very tough on all brick and mortar. The only reason WalMart is able to make a good go at it is because of their volume purchasing.
Internet shopping has made it very tough on all brick and mortar. The only reason WalMart is able to make a good go at it is because of their volume purchasing.
I think that's a copout. Brick and mortar places have a couple big advantages over internet stores if you ask me. There are some things that I like to see, try on and feel first hand before I purchase. Clothes are one example. The other advantage is service. Sure, some online places have good service but it's usually still by email or phone. Nothing can replace face-to-face customer service and it's worth a few % in profit margin IMO. Obviously, the percentage in margin can't be absurd like this guy was asking, but nonetheless, with items like weapons, I would imagine that most people would agree that it's worth the few bucks more you pay if you get good service with the product.
Agreeed!! I wouldnt have paid that much either. Woulda done as you did and shopped at different FFL.
__________________
I tremble for my country when I hear of confidence expressed in me. I know too well my weakness, that our only hope is in God. Robert E. Lee
So you do that by doing the opposite of what's gonna keep you in business? Seems the logic everyone's going with these days. The thing about him not transferring a gun he can order, when it comes down to it it's his business and if he doesn't wanna make money, that's his choice.
There's a gun store in my town that thinks they're untouchable like that. When I went looking for my first gun 8 months ago, I went there first. I asked if they had the G23 I wanted, they said "no, but we have a G31 with .40 barrel" for darn near $700. Had it been a G32, I may have taken the offer. So I went to another store and found my G23. Next day I go back to the first store looking for holsters since they're the only store with holsters, and there's a G23 sitting in the display case. They did not get a G23 in that day, they just wanted to push product on me they had trouble selling. I've quite enjoyed going into this store looking for all the accessories for my G23 and rubbing in their faces the fact that they don't make money unless their customers get what they ask for.
__________________ G23 End the Fed! Ammo: The New Money!
Guys... Do you have any idea how many firearms wholesalers there are in the United States or how frequently firearm prices fluctuate?
I used to get a bunch of the wholesaler rags and one week a Remington 870 might be, say, $319 from the wholesaler and the next week it might be $269.
If I am a Ma'n'Pa gun store that just ordered four 870s at $319 apiece, am I supposed to sell them at a loss to you because they're on special through a wholesaler for $269 this week?
There is no point in *****ing at or about the store owner. Ask what the best price is and if you can get the same product for less by other means, do it. But the fact is that the consumer should take the best possible deal and the producer needs to make a profit to stay in business.
Those two things do not always happen simultaneously...
__________________
"Guns always work better the cleaner they are... Remember to keep it lubed always and clean it when you can and you will be much better off over the long haul." -Larry Vickers
That dude should go teach at Wharton School of Business.
In order to stay in business, you have to generate income. Generate income by any means necessary. That includes not making as much of a profit on a sales but earn the customer's return business. No, you don't have to sell at a loss or at a break even. That's stupid and even the customer knows that.
No transfer fee? Stupid, stupid, stupid. That's $20 or $50 that you ain't gettin' anyway if you're refusing to deal on a sales.
One of these years, these small shop owners will understand that in order to stay in business you gotta make money by any means possible. Unless they are closet millionnaires and just want to open a shop for the hell of it.
the fact is that the consumer should take the best possible deal and the producer needs to make a profit to stay in business.
But don't you agree that it's in the shop's best interest to sell the product to a person that wants it? I mean selling a product at a loss is better than not selling it at all. Unless the product is selling really well and there will be no problem selling it to someone else it makes more sense to sell it at a reasonable, competitive price. I doubt the $100 higher price could be considered competitive.
I don't see where doing a transfer on another store's inventory turns into selling your own inventory at a loss. The gun store owner was pretty much telling the customer to do business his way(by buying his inventory at his price) or get out of the store, and that's what happened.
__________________ G23 End the Fed! Ammo: The New Money!
Shops that complain to me their high cost, store fees, license fees, rental fees, insert anything else here., is preaching on deaf ears.
Yes the small mom & pops are squeezed out but that's their problem.
__________________
Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win.
I think that's a copout. Brick and mortar places have a couple big advantages over internet stores if you ask me. There are some things that I like to see, try on and feel first hand before I purchase. Clothes are one example. The other advantage is service.
All great things you can take advantage of before you go home and order.
But don't you agree that it's in the shop's best interest to sell the product to a person that wants it? I mean selling a product at a loss is better than not selling it at all. Unless the product is selling really well and there will be no problem selling it to someone else it makes more sense to sell it at a reasonable, competitive price. I doubt the $100 higher price could be considered competitive.
The only time it is ever wise, in business, to sell at a loss is when you are using a loss-leader as a promotion or when you are attempting to liquidate your assets. Or, of course, if you are subsidized by the government.
Do you really think that a shopkeeper would rather lose $80 from his ledger than keep a shotgun he will eventually sell for a profit on his shelves?
You guys have to remember - just because we understand what guns are really worth, does not mean Joe Sixpack who wants to skeet shoot with his buddies this weekend does.
There are always threads on here about high prices at gun shops and gun shows... If nobody bought the stuff at those inflated prices, the prices would come down.
Supply, demand, etc.
I won't go into the details...
__________________
"Guns always work better the cleaner they are... Remember to keep it lubed always and clean it when you can and you will be much better off over the long haul." -Larry Vickers
A hundred dollars is a pretty big difference in price.
BUT.
The few dealers left around my area are mostly raising their transfer fee to fifty bucks. That and the thirty-five that some online sellers are wanting for shipping now just about makes up the difference in most cases.
__________________
I've seen the quiet dead; and I've heard the living moan. This world's no place to live in, but it's home.
I think that's a copout. Brick and mortar places have a couple big advantages over internet stores if you ask me. There are some things that I like to see, try on and feel first hand before I purchase. Clothes are one example. The other advantage is service. Sure, some online places have good service but it's usually still by email or phone. Nothing can replace face-to-face customer service and it's worth a few % in profit margin IMO. Obviously, the percentage in margin can't be absurd like this guy was asking, but nonetheless, with items like weapons, I would imagine that most people would agree that it's worth the few bucks more you pay if you get good service with the product.
The advantage B&M doesn't have is with overhead. Friend of mine is the gen mngr at the largest gun shop in the area. I asked him if he could match the price on a TRL1 light. Online price was $87.00 with free shipping. He showed me his invoice. He pays $107 for the light. Add to that the fact that he has to maintain a couple MILLION in inventory at all times... I think you get what I am saying. Not to mention the customers who come in to touchy feely the inventory and then order it online to save a couple bucks. Makes it tough now days.
how much over the online price would you have been happy with?
If I had been able to get it for 20-30 over the online price, I would have supported the business. Not to mention the benefit of brick and mortar stores that no one mentioned: immediate gratification.
I didn't start the thread just to be one more gripe about high gun store prices though- all small businesses have to deal with that. My issue is with an owner who thinks he can strong-arm people into buying from him by overcharging and refusing transfers. Trust me, if he didn't have the only indoor range in town, he would have been out of business long ago
If I am a Ma'n'Pa gun store that just ordered four 870s at $319 apiece, am I supposed to sell them at a loss to you because they're on special through a wholesaler for $269 this week?
In this example, I would bet that if the owner (hereafter known as you, to use your example) wanted to make money you could try to do a few different things. If it was really just last week, then you might ask your distributor for some price protection*. If there was no way to close the price gap some, then you might figure out a package you can put the gun in. Some package ideas that might work:
a HD package that comes with an inexpensive mag extension, one of your higher margin tactical lights on a mount.
Various configurations of hunting packages, devoted to some of the local hunting options.
A package with a cleaning certificate (we wont go into why some people pay others to clean their guns, but since it happens so much, there must be people who would value it).
A package with a discounted gunsmithing coupon for alterations they may wish to make on the gun (with an expiration date and the weapons serial number if you want to make it gun specific).
I'm not saying that every batch of lemons can be turned into lemonade, but making some effort and taking some steps to adapt to situations that aren't perfect for you while still bringing in the money is the difference between making it and not in small business**.
*Which sounds like the term for some kind of extortion racket, but is just a term many wholesalers apply to policies they have to help their customers not get burned and thus lose them future business.
**Not saying I'm some kind of small biz guru, but I've been GM to several small shops and seen the kinds of choices that worked out well, and many that didn't.
__________________
Guns aren't expensive, the ammo to get good with them is.
My carry gun is a 9mm, my backup gun is also a 9mm. I worry about being struck by lightning more than I worry about running into the bad guy who cannot be stopped by hits from 9mm weapon.
Do you really think that a shopkeeper would rather lose $80 from his ledger than keep a shotgun he will eventually sell for a profit on his shelves?
I understand why store owners can still profit by overcharging this way. It's not the best practice, but it can be viable.
What's stupid is rejecting the transfer fee. It's not like rejecting the transfer is going to make me buy a gun from him instead. All he did was say no to a free $20, and a chance to maintain a good customer relationship.
There's a shop just a couple of blocks from my house. He has a sign on one of his windows that says " I special order". I have stopped in a couple of times to ask about him getting me something from a particular dealer. He is always at least $100 higher than what the price is from the dealer , that I want ordered. I have asked him if he does transfers, his answer--"no, I do special orders". My answer is that I have just walked out and had someone else transfer it. Too bad, I would have used him for several transfers. Now I just drive about 20 minutes and pay $25 for my transfers. Some dealers just don't get it.
__________________
how's that hope and change working for you?
Until you know this guys costs you can't really complain about it. A lot of these online retailers such as buds buy in such huge quantity that they actually sell the gun for below what the dealer pays from the wholesaler. Not to mention this business has to pay taxes/mortgage/insurance/utilities. It doesn't make much sense to sell a gun unless he makes 10-20%. Buds probably makes most of their money in volume maybe 5-10% markup 300-400 times a day. While the gun store sells 5-10 guns a day at 20-30% markup to make the bills.
I will say i try to buy all my guns at locally in Whitefield NH and they're prices are great and very comparable to many online prices. I think alot has to do with daily wholesale deals, who they use and how much quantity they purchase per year. None of these little mom and pops can compete with huge online distributors.
Shops that complain to me their high cost, store fees, license fees, rental fees, insert anything else here., is preaching on deaf ears.
Yes the small mom & pops are squeezed out but that's their problem.
Actually them getting squeezed out is a problem for everybody. When there are no more MnP places left, where are you going to get an online purchase shipped to? And if there are some places left that do transfers, how much will they cost?
I agree that 100 bucks is quite a bit different. And if the owner were unwilling to budge on his price, well go somewhere else. I have one dealer that understands everybody is trying to save a few $'s and will work with you. There are others that think they are doing you a favor letting you in their door. They get no money from me.
Shops that complain to me their high cost, store fees, license fees, rental fees, insert anything else here., is preaching on deaf ears.
Yes the small mom & pops are squeezed out but that's their problem.
I'll pick this as the most common succinct answer here. Not picking on noway specifically. He just condenses the sentiment nicely.
BULLBUTTER!
First, this $100. Is that after shipping? So $25 for shipping, $20 for some undercutter to do paperwork, you are now talking about $55.
That still may be too much, depending on the gun. But likely it isn't. Ask for a box of ammo and you are within spitting distance of 100% competitive prices.
But keep whining folks in 20 years when there are even LESS dealers than there are now and you can't get your precious guns. Because they are getting squeezed out all over. Accessories - Brownells and Midway. Ammo - all sorts of places online. The only thing the store-owner has left is new guns. That's it.
Now, if you can convice the Federales to retract 1968 and expand the mail-order purchase of guns, I'm all for these guys getting squeezed out. But before that? Let's give em a break.
The guy SHOULD teach at Wharton. Because the armchair commandos know one thing: I want to get the lowest price possible today regardless of who it hurts. Amazingly, the AC's decry WalMart for the same practice and REFUSE to shop there.
Hey, just make sure your personal philosophy actually matches your habits. And make sure you have sincerity. Because if you can fake that, the world is your oyster.
EDIT
OK, I'm winding up again. What the flip, OP??? You want to patronize the local guy but get offended that his costs are higher???? And I wonder which one of you was rude first? I'm not saying anything, but it's YOUR claim that he's rude. Coulda been you that started it and you didn't even know it.
I think I'm done now. LOL
__________________
People aren't confused by the gospel, they're confused by us.
Jesus is the only way to God, but we are not the only way to Jesus.
This world doesn't need my tie, my hoodie, my denomination, or my translation of the Bible.
They just need Jesus.
Two things in the works will help brick and mortar stores compete:
1. The Feds will soon require sales tax to be paid on all internet sales.
2. Obama will likely push to reduce the number of FFLs. The BATF tried to eliminate the low volume FFLs operating out of people's homes a while back. I expect another push soon.
__________________ NRA_guy
Why should other people pay for your health care? If you cannot afford it you should work harder or stay sick---and lose some weight!
G23 End the Fed! Ammo: The New Money!
Linear Mode
