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Old 10-13-2012, 10:41   #421
Jerry
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jerry, how do you really feel?
Let me think about that and get back to you.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:42   #422
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You keep wanting to make this about ME. Let me try one more time to get this through your Thick Coonass head . Then I give up. And you ain't changing my mind. I WORK FOR A LIVING. I AM NOT RECEIVING SS. I COULD CARE LESS "PERSONALLY" IF THEY ABOLISH SS TODAY. IT'S NOT ABOUT ME! It's about the people who's money the government took with the PROMISE that they would receive money when they were older.

Perhaps if I break it down to it's simplest form you'll understated and agree.

WELFARE = FREE.... food, cloth, money anything.... something some one receives with no input. Money for nothing!

SS = persons PAYS puts into the system in return for something out. Money in = money out. No money in = no money out.

NO if you want to speak "specifically" of those... that received welfare all their lives or illegal aliens that the government has added as recipients to the SS system... Absolutely, positively without a double are receiving SS in the form of WELFARE.

Over and out.

Have a nice day.

It's a done deal.

Don't bother to reply I'm not reading anymore BS.

I'm tired of a useless argument

Just bite me.

Love ya man.

Oh yah! Did I say you aren't going to change my mind.
Jerry - the government lies.

No one "pays into" social security. We're taxed. Money is fungible.

It is about you because you are cooking up this notion of what social security is based on what you want it to be, not what it actually is.

It is welfare. A handout. The fact that you are taxed beforehand has nothing to do with it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:44   #423
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I'm not doing anything. I'm not receiving SS. By the time I become eligible it may not exist.
How can it not exist when you say the government is just giving your your money back?

If the government is just holding your money for you and then giving it back to you, why would there ever be a problem?

I'm not saying you're a welfare recipient. I'm saying you will be when you start receiving SS.
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Old 10-13-2012, 19:21   #424
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I'm not saying you're a welfare recipient. I'm saying you will be when you start receiving SS.


I started paying SS at 18, many years max amount. The gov used my money for 48 years before I got any of it back. What I am getting is not welfare.... I earned it and paid it in.

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Old 10-13-2012, 19:34   #425
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I started paying SS at 18, many years max amount. The gov used my money for 48 years before I got any of it back. What I am getting is not welfare.... I earned it and paid it in.

Doc44
Sorry. You were taxed. You didn't "pay", it was taken. I'm being taxed to pay you. I've maxed out SS every year of employment since college. I'm 41. That money is gone. It blows.

Your money wasn't "used" and then returned to you. It was spent. Gone.

It's welfare. You're a welfare recipient.
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Old 10-13-2012, 19:48   #426
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Sorry. You were taxed. You didn't "pay", it was taken. I'm being taxed to pay you. I've maxed out SS every year of employment since college. I'm 41. That money is gone. It blows.

Your money wasn't "used" and then returned to you. It was spent. Gone.

It's welfare. You're a welfare recipient.
No, they are paying me back for a loan and they are having to use your money because they have given mine away money. They could just write me a check for my total contribution plus 9% interest compounded monthly and I would call it even.

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Old 10-13-2012, 19:51   #427
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Economic fail.

You need to ask yourself WHY it has gotten more expensive.

LASIK, gets cheaper.
Technology gets cheaper.

No government involvement. Great examples of quality improving rapidly while costs to the consumer decrease.
Wrong ... your logic fail.

Your example of a technology, LASIK ...which you argue gets cheaper overtime ... is somewhat true (until even more advanced and more expensive BETTER technology makes it obsolete) ... but entirely misses the point. It didn't even EXIST until the 90s. It is therefore a delta increase on medical costs ... even if someday it is 40 bucks an eye ... it is still more than when it wasn't available. Examples like this are all over medicine. Medicine's abilities and value has increased, of course we pay more.

When you have an array of medicines and advanced technology that can CURE what would have killed you 50 years ago ... there is added cost!! See my car safety technology analogy.

Thank you for giving another example/analogy (LASIK) of new technology adding value and therefore adding cost relative to income (as I did with my car safety technology in 1950 vs now) ... ironic ... but helpful!

Last edited by douggmc; 10-13-2012 at 20:03..
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Old 10-13-2012, 19:52   #428
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No, they are paying me back for a loan and they are having to use your money because they have given mine away money. They could just write me a check for my total contribution plus 9% interest compounded monthly and I would call it even.

Doc44
So you have a promissory note then?

Contract?

Sorry. I don't mean it to be insulting but it is what it is.

It is literally no different than if you applied for food stamps at this point in your life. You're just buying into the lie. They count on that.
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Old 10-13-2012, 19:59   #429
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Wrong ... your logic fail.

Your example of a technology, LASIK ...which you argue gets cheaper overtime ... is somewhat true (until further more expensive and BETTER technology makes it obsolete) ... but entirely misses the point. It didn't even EXIST until the 90s. It is therefore a delta increase on medical costs ... even if someday it is 40 bucks an eye ... it is still more than when it wasn't available. Examples like this are all over medicine. Medicine's abilities and value has increased, of course we pay more. See my car safety technology analogy.

Thank you for giving another example/analogy of new technology adding value and therefore adding cost relative to income (as I did with my car safety technology in 1950 vs now).


You absolutely don't know what you're talking about. It isn't a "delta increase" in medical costs because its a cash business falling outside of "the system".

What did a personal computer cost in 1990? Has it gotten better or worse since then? What has happened to the price.

I has LASIK in 1999 @ $4000 per eye. It is light years better today. What does it cost?

Two very simple examples of what happens when government stays out of the market.

Price inflation is caused when too many dollars are chasing too few services. Government involvement in the market ALWAYS causes inflation. Medicare and college education are classic, textbook examples.
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:01   #430
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You absolutely don't know what you're talking about. It isn't a "delta increase" in medical costs because its a cash business falling outside of "the system".

What did a personal computer cost in 1990? Has it gotten better or worse since then? What has happened to the price.

I has LASIK in 1999 @ $4000 per eye. It is light years better today. What does it cost?

Two very simple examples of what happens when government stays out of the market.

Price inflation is caused when too many dollars are chasing too few services. Government involvement in the market ALWAYS causes inflation. Medicare and college education are classic, textbook examples.
What did it cost before it didn't exist? ZERO. Therefore, even if it costs 40$ per eye today, it is still DELTA INCREASE IN COST.


I've finally figured you out ... virtually all of your positions are rooted in TEXTBOOK and ACADEMIC economic laissez faire theory. Which doesn't exist in reality. There is no perfect system in economics outside of theory. The folks that don't realize this are not much further up the totem pole than quacks who don't have a clue about economics at all.

It is as if you took a couple economics undergraduate courses, but skipped the last week of the last one where the professor explained this key point. Theoretical systems don't always exist in reality.

Last edited by douggmc; 10-13-2012 at 20:06..
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:04   #431
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Price inflation is caused when too many dollars are chasing too few services. Government involvement in the market ALWAYS causes inflation. Medicare and college education are classic, textbook examples.
true!




Please vote! It's that important!
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:06   #432
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I've finally figured you out ... virtually all of your positions are rooted in TEXTBOOK and ACADEMIC economic laissez faire theory. Which doesn't exist in reality. There is no perfect system in economics outside of theory. The folks that don't realize that are not much further up the totem pole than quacks.
This is my business, sport. Mine and my spouse's. My business is rooted in Medicare reimbursement. My wife's is cash. The middle class can still afford my wife's services. The middle class can't afford what I do without a 3rd payor.

My wife sets her own fees, works 8-5, 4 days per week and earns a living that meets her standards.

Your average GP MD is scrambling. Why is that?

Say? Have you happened to notice the new ads on tv's for catheters? Every wonder why you suddenly see them?

There is a ton of money to be made just chasing Medicare reimbursement. Entire business models are built around it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:07   #433
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This is my business, sport. Mine and my spouse's. My business is rooted in Medicare reimbursement. My wife's is cash. The middle class can still afford my wife's services. The middle class can't afford what I do without a 3rd payor.

My wife sets her own fees, works 8-5, 4 days per week and earns a living that meets her standards.

Your average GP MD is scrambling.

Say? Have you happened to notice the new ads on tv's for catheters? Every wonder why you suddenly see them?

There is a ton of money to be made just chasing Medicare reimbursement. Entire business models are built around it.
Yeah ... just gloss over and skip the main point we've debated the past few posts now that I've destroyed your line of argument.
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:12   #434
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What did it cost before it didn't exist? ZERO. Therefore, even if it costs 40$ per eye today, it is still DELTA INCREASE IN COST.

That's like saying that home appliances are a "delta increase in cost" of living. Or, fax machines are a delta increase in the cost of doing business. Or, breast implants are a delta increase in the cost of adult entertainment.

Cash medical procedures are outside of the "system". Elective procedures add nothing to the "cost of healthcare".

I'm really curious at this point, what is it that you do for a living?
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:16   #435
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Yeah ... just gloss over and skip the main point we've debated the past few posts now that I've destroyed your line of argument.
Speaking of glossing over, you're getting good at it.

You've destroyed nothing. All you've done for several pages now is twist and fabricate to try to convince others why Obamacare is good for everyone.

I'm still waiting for you to explain how it makes everything cheaper when you admit that costs will increase for people like you and me who are payors in the system now.

Remember that ? First you argue that we're paying for the freeloaders now and need Obamacare to bring the costs down. Then you admit that people who have insurance now are going to pay more. Then, the fraction of the fraction of 22 year olds who get hit by a buss have to start paying for insurance they don't use. More expensive for them too.

Where is the savings?
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:19   #436
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douggmc socialist math:

$1 + $1 = $3

How?

We steal the 3rd dollar from that other guy and convince him we're all better off.
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:32   #437
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Price inflation is caused when too many dollars are chasing too few services. Government involvement in the market ALWAYS causes inflation. Medicare and college education are classic, textbook examples.
textbooks are textbook examples

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Old 10-13-2012, 20:52   #438
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textbooks are textbook examples
well done
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:33   #439
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Im good at these 5000+ view threads.
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